This may have already been said, and if it has I apologize.
Has anyone actually read the list of demands from these OWS people?
It reads like a fantasy novel, with some of the demands being contradictory in nature.
They are proposed demands---proposed by a regular user of their on-site forum, that is. This user has a no greater authority to speak for the Occupy-Wall-Street movement than you and I have to speak for Able2Know. Perhaps you want to be more careful with your sources in the future.
We are not all that smart but we are getting there! Never again!
0 Replies
reasoning logic
1
Reply
Thu 6 Oct, 2011 04:19 pm
@Butrflynet,
Thanks for sharing!
0 Replies
reasoning logic
1
Reply
Thu 6 Oct, 2011 04:28 pm
0 Replies
mysteryman
0
Reply
Thu 6 Oct, 2011 04:57 pm
I have a question about these OWS people.
Where are they taking showers?
Where are they going to the bathroom?
Who is financing them?
How are they eating?
If none of them are working, someone has to be footing the bill for them.
Who is that person or group?
I usually like to get in on a thread from the start, but if I miss the opportunity I often will hang back and let it percolate before I visit it to see what's been going on.
Thus far this thread, in general, has been about as aimless as these protests.
If I can detect any recurring theme its questioning the value of the protests, at first because there were no stated goals and then later when there was, because they were so vapid.
In an effort to make excuses for a very lame effort which they had hoped would be more meaningful, a couple of people have offered the argument that just going out on the streets and expressing general displeasure was of value, and that a list of "demands" wasn't ever really necessary.
From the very beginning of this story, I had to laugh whenever I heard commentators looking for the demonstrator's list of "demands." it sounded like an episode of Seinfeld in which Jerry expresses exasperation and disbelief over ineptitude of a bunch of protesting kids:
"What do you mean you don't have a List of Demands?
You come all the way down here with signs and backpacks, enough booze or pills to induce a handful of women to walk around bare-chested, and even a catchy name for your movement, but you don't have a List of Demands?!
You brought enough video cameras to film 10 straight days of police brutality and you’ve already set up committees for Finance, Food and Comfort, but you mean to tell me you don’t have a List of Demands?!
What kind of protestors are you people?
In my day we had our List of Demands printed on two color stock, collated, clipped and ready to pass out to anyone who even looked interested. I’m telling you, those were protests. You have to have a List of Demands!
You see clips of the brainiacs who are Occupying Wall Street and you can understand why no one thought to bring A List of Demands. Blaming bad-faith editing on Fox for portraying the Occupiers in such a poor light, we’re provided a longer clip of an interview that reportedly was not aired. Rather than being amazed by some 21st century Voltaire, we are treated to a monologue of smug talking points, but because this guy can actually form complete sentences he is held up as the true face of the Occupation.
I’m convinced that a big reason why the Left can’t stand The Tea Party Movement is because it wasn’t created by them. It stole grassroots based protesting from its rightful owners…them! It’s the reason why the first line of attack brought by Liberals against The Tea Party disputed its authenticity; charging it with being an Astroturf movement. Compared to the ineptitude of OWS you can see why it was tempting for critics to assert that there were professionals behind The Tea Party. Not professionals though just experienced protestors from another time. More than half of the Organizers of the Tea Party had been around the block in the 60’s and 70’s with the Anti-War movement.
Watching the Tea Party Movement produce startling election results in 2010 and then witnessing big time street protest get fired up by The Arab Spring, it’s no wonder the Left became apoplectic about having a Movement of their own.
For a while they tried bussing union activists into the Town Hall meetings of Republican officials in an attempt at stealing some of the fire of the early Tea Party Town Hall Hullabaloos but since that didn’t prove believable, something else was necessary.
Actually I don’t think the initial OWL activity was staged, despite all of the helping hands extended by Entertainment World Libs. Good Lord if it was organized by established liberal groups, the left is more trouble than even I had hope for.
Another laughable aspect of The List of Demands is the idea that OWL is in a position to make any demands on anyone! What? Has Bloomberg conceded Downtown to their control?
Having a few hundred jobless kids hanging out in the financial districts of several major US cities doesn’t constitute an Occupation, or even a Movement (Let alone the ridiculous assertion leading off this thread that what we were watching was a “revolt.”)
In order for OWL to have even a remote chance of duplicating some of the success of the Tea Party it has to move on from these windless protests, but I’m sure that there are quite a few “activists” who are hoping for more opportunities to scream “Police Brutality”
A source for head shaking sghs if not laughs was the “horrific” mace spray video that “went viral,” in less than an hour. I know from personal experience that getting a snoot full of mace or pepper spray is not a refreshing event, but to listen to the girls screaming on the sidewalk, long after they got sprayed, you would have thought they’d had sulphuric acid thrown in their faces.
Oh the Humanity!
Despite what many of my less charitable friends on A2K may think, I’m by no means an apologist for cops who overstep their authority and get unnecessarily violent with protestors, just because a kid said something nasty about their mothers. It’s impossible to tell from the clips posted to this thread what triggered the occasions of rough treatment (except for one where the kid can be clearly seen throwing a punch at a cop) but none were outrageous.
In any case, this is the sort of outcomes we see during demonstrations where the only organization among the protesters is that put together by the small but provocative fringe elements that are actually there to stir up trouble; including violence. When the demonstrations are well organized, as they are in the case of the Tea Party, not only are there virtually no incidents of violence, the protestors pick up after themselves before they leave.
If OWL is to produce anything more significant than the Slacker Fall, it has to get organized and express itself through local elections rather than more aimless demonstrations and phony occupations.
Here's the transcript of the declaration for those who won't click the link:
Quote:
“As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies. As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members. That our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors. That a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people, and the Earth, and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power.
We come to you at a time when corporations — which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality — run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here as is our right to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in workplaces based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity, and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is, itself, a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut worker’s health care and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams, but look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products, endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives, or provide relief in order to protect investments that have
already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully kept people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners, even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City general assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble, occupy public space, create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
“As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies. As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members. That our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors. That a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people, and the Earth, and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power.
We come to you at a time when corporations — which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality — run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here as is our right to let these facts be known.
Sounds like the views of a certain A2K member who has been around for the last few years dont it...
0 Replies
Finn dAbuzz
2
Reply
Thu 6 Oct, 2011 08:58 pm
@Butrflynet,
What a crock.
Is this supposed to be taken seriously?
It amounts to
You may not know it, but we have occupied Downtown Manhattan (no dude, we really did!) and we want to express solidarity and alliance, support and unitedness with every human...except of course the human stooges of the dread, evil corporations.
We want to say some things about democracy, consent and power that we think sound deep, but we also want to throw in this really cool bit about how it's our human duty to get all revolutionary and **** if we have to protect humans from the evil Corporations.
Mostly we want to tell you these Corporations suck, they really suck, and that they suck more than anything else on earth that sucks. These pricks really, really want to screw us humans.
We're calling ourselves the New York City general assembly that is occupying Wall Street ( pretty cool, huh?) and we're calling on other humans to do what we've done. We'll do whatever we can to help you including sending you are spare camcorders so you can video yourselves getting beat up by the cops and the leftover Pizza Hut coupons Michael Moore gave us.
The NYC Occupiers
Could this "manifesto" be more pretentious and trite?
Instead of wearing colonial garb at their rallies, these guys will be wearing Matrix outfits.
Could this "manifesto" be more pretentious and trite?
I guess you won't be protesting against Wall Street anytime soon, then. But you knew that before the style of the manifesto rubbed you the wrong way, didn't you?
They have lost their jobs. Their homes are being repossessed. They have no health insurance. They owe $50,000 borrowed for college. They read about corporate craziness, government spending that make one spit.
What to do? Get out there and say, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take this anymore!"
You think this will do the trick, protesting? May as well join the crowd across the planet, and protest. There's nothing else to do. They have nothing else to do.
No, but it is a start. Governments which have become abusive towards their citizens fall only after they are seen by the majority to be illegitimate, protesting and raising awareness is a step towards getting there.
Governments which have become abusive towards their citizens fall only after they are seen by the majority to be illegitimate, protesting and raising awareness is a step towards getting there.
What is missing in this statement is the dissatisfaction of the 99 % with both major parties. The alleged corruption is right through the entire system, including banks, insurers, pharmacol suppliers, you name it.
The fiscal stimulus helped whom? The bail-out of Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae helped whom?
The groundswell of dissatisfaction with every facet of our current "leadership" (yes, Australians are pissed too) will not be appeased by voting in another bunch of bribe-takers and mouth-pieces for corporate interests.
