Two weeks into Occupy Wall Street protests, movement is at a crossroads

Go **** yourselves. It's everyone's job to make money. But you make money by creating nothing and doing nothing productive whatsoever. You make money by using tricks and gambles. It's deeply dishonorable and pathetic in a way, not something to be proud of. It is a drain on all of us in society in a variety of ways. It benefits nobody but the already rich and parasites like yourselves. You should be reviled and I dearly hope that one outcome of the current movement is a larger societal condemnation of those in your position.



You're not going to hurt me one bit, because I don't give my money to assholes like you.



Good luck with that. See, my job requires people skills, and you are a bunch of heartless dicks. You are not qualified to do my job. The only reason you think you are, is some misplaced notion that the ability to manipulate markets for money - and to dedicate your lives to making money - somehow makes you more qualified to do, well, everything, than anyone else is. What a ******* joke. You wouldn't last a week in my workplace before getting fired, with the attitude you display here.



We will, of course. The idiotic writer you posted here, Finn - who you obviously agree with and identify with - fails to realize that our society, human society, was ticking along just fine without him and his kind being afforded massive paychecks. We rely upon them for nothing at all. In fact, it's the opposite that is true: THEY rely upon US for their living.

That piece is deeply disgusting, written by a truly pompous ass, and I'm not even a little surprised that you posted it. Not only that, but this isn't an open letter to 'occupy chicago;' it's a chain-email that has been going around right-wing circles for at least a year now, far before OWS started up. So, yeah. You're just as full of **** as they are, Finn.

Cycloptichorn

October 28, 2011
Cold weather presents new set of challenges for Occupy Wall Street protesters
By Geraldine Baum | McClatchy Tribune Newswire

"Is it time to Occupy Miami Beach?" a shivering Max Richmond asked another New York protester as she waited to get Vitamin C near the makeshift medical tent.

They laughed and hugged for warmth.

Since hundreds of anti-greed protesters descended on a park a block from Wall Street this fall, they have faced arrest, sleep deprivation, no bathrooms and rainy weather. They've had their backpacks and iPods stolen and their food tent invaded by freeloaders and tourists. But a downpour Thursday night followed by frost Friday was a reminder to even the most dedicated occupiers of what many have said will be their greatest test - a New York winter.

Organizers have predicted the freezing temperatures and snow would reduce the lower Manhattan encampment to a small assemblage through winter.

"But that's OK with us," said Richmond, a 26-year-old carpenter from upstate New York. "The hardy will stay. The junkies will go. And in the spring all somebody has to do is declare Occupy Central Park or Occupy Union Square and everyone will return. This was just practice."

With a snow storm predicted this weekend, the Occupy Wall Street protesters are already huddling at night under tents and tarps, layering on as much clothing as they can, ducking frequently into fast-food restaurants to get warm and occasionally sleeping in subway stations. A 19-year-old from Florida wrote his mom asking for cold-weather gear. She sent a winter coat (and tucked his retainer in the package).

Even before the temperature had dropped, organizers were preparing for winter by stocking a nearby storage space with hats, gloves, coats, blankets, sleeping bags, food and other supplies. Donations were pouring in from around the country. An organic farmer from Hawaii sent macadamia nuts and bananas. Mostly the donations have served the group's basic needs, although a few items are in short supply.

"We need shoes like crazy," said Michael Glaser, a young actor from Chicago who has been manning the "comfort station" handing out warm clothes. Wet feet have led to several cases of hypothermia, as well athlete's and trench foot.

Several protesters, in fact, were walking around barefoot Friday morning because their shoes had been stolen overnight, Glaser said, and he had nothing to give them.

Since Glaser found wet clothes and blankets on the ground that he had given out only hours before, he has been concerned that supplies are being wasted. He said he hoped that protest coordinators would come up with a solution - fast.

When a rumor spread Thursday night that 250 tents would be handed out, people waited in line for hours. "There was near riot when we ran out," said Glaser, noting they only had 36.

The large, rectangular park has become a hodgepodge of tarps and tents. Although the owner of Zuccotti Park had invoked a no-tent rule, so far authorities are letting most of them stay up.

It's also clear they don't want the demonstrators to get too comfortable.

City fire and police officials on Friday confiscated gas tanks and a half dozen generators being used for electricity in the makeshift kitchen and for media equipment. Mayor Michael Bloomberg had declared them a safety hazard. Organizers were baffled because they said fire marshals had inspected the park the day before and hadn't mentioned any violations.

"It's strange that this happens on the first really cold morning," said Bill Dobbs, a volunteer with the press operation. But rather than prompt calls for further rebellion - plans already were under way Friday for an action targeting Midtown banks - organizers said they would ask for the generators back. Several protesters said cooperating with the city at this point in the season seemed important.

"We don't want anyone coming through at night pulling us out of our tents and leaving us out in the cold altogether," said Ray Kachel, a 53-year-old out-of-work videographer from Seattle.

For the last three weeks Kachel has slept on a step in a sleeping bag. He said he hoped that once more protesters cleared out because of the weather he would be able to find a spot in a tent.

"Whether I can sustain a cold, wet winter, well, I'm not certain," Kachel said. "But I'm going to try."

(Geraldine Baum write for the Los Angeles Times)

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/10/28/128626/cold-weather-presents-new-set.html#ixzz1cBy0Jvfg

Yeah, no joke.

In summary, I have you in a choke hold. Complain about not getting enough oxygen, and I'll just snap your neck. Be thankful for the air you breathe, it's my gift.

What an asshole.

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Surely the piece is satire.

No one could possible think that working on Wall Street makes them qualified to teach 3rd graders let alone take the job of union pipe fitters or electricians.

I doubt it was written by someone on Wall Street that works from 5AM to 10PM never leaving his chair but still has time to go out for long dinners where he leaves large tips. It is either brilliant satire or written by a RW ignoramus that has no connection to Wall Street but wanted to pretend he did.

If that was written by a worker on wallstreet, it proves that their primary mindset doesn't understand much about economics. They only understand greed. Sell anything? Who is he trying to kid?

The piece is so filled with inaccurate and contradictory statements it certainly wasn't written by someone that knows the ins and outs of the financial system.

It's either satire or an attempt to support a belief system that is so out there it would be pointless to satirize it.

Perhaps, but stop calling me Shirley.

Reality is proving to be more strange than fiction these days. When wall street came out to drink champagne on balconies in front of #OWS last month, my jaw dropped.



And don't forget to wave to the cameras.
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The #OWS (New York) group aren't just sitting around trying to keep warm, though. Yesterday they implemented their plan to Deliver Their Message To The 1%. (Detailed instructions for participants on their website)...

WHO: Foreclosure victims, unemployed New Yorkers, students with debt, Occupy Wall Street protesters, members of Strong Economy for All, UnitedNY, New York Communities for Change, ALIGN, The Yes Men

WHAT: Thousands will march to the headquarters of five major banks to deliver over 6,000 letters to the 1% submitted to occupytheboardroom.org, concluding with a general assembly at which a foreclosure victim from Southeast Queens will read a letter through the people’s mic inviting Jamie Dimon to tour her neighborhood.

VISUALS: Thousands of people trying to throw paper airplane letters up to the top floor of the BofA building, thousands of people delivering a singing telegram to Citigroup CEO Vikram Pandit led by a choir and marching band, poster oard blowups of letters from the 99%, giant mailbag full of letters from march participants.

In addition, the marchers were to be accompanied by a group of bicycling pirates. Or maybe it was pirate bicyclers. Gonna need to double check that.

I just wonder a) if they're listening, b) will there be "any" change (beyond banks backing off fees on debit cards), and c) is greed a sickness?

Hit a nerve did it?

I think that's pretty funny.

What did you expect them to do?

Street theater

I guess there have to be activities if all these people are going to brave the weather.

No comment needed.


Ask Mary Antoinette. Perhaps the protesters would be interested in some cake?

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So certain in your righteous judgments aren't you Young Jedi?

I suppose it's never dawned on you that the Occupy demonstrators and their supporters sitting in front of their computer monitors do not actually represent 99% of Americans.

No matter how loudly the slogan is chanted; no matter how big the cardboard signs that carry it, it's just not so.

Imagine those aristocratic bastards literally looking down on the poor suffering masses and laughing and sipping champagne!

Instead they should be down there in the streets, on their knees, begging for forgiveness and turning over their vast fortunes to OWS!

Now you see "your" beloved movement in the rags of the French peasantry of 1789, literally starving for lack of the 12 sous needed to buy a loaf of bread.

How times have changed that Americans of any class can think to compare themselves to the peasants of late 18th century France or serfs of early 20th century Russia.

There are legitimate grievances at play here, but nothing that remotely compares to those that in other times and places spurred revolution, and yet so many want to indulge in romantic revolutionary fantasies wherein the dichotomy is simple and clear between the evil heartless rich and the noble suffering poor.

I'm not sure where you fall here Deist, but there are members among the OWC cadre here in A2K that are salivating in anticipation of violent upheaval.

Of course they would never man the barricades, preferring to enjoy the revolution unfold on their TV sets, but somehow I think you would. Maybe I'm giving you more credit than you deserve, but you strike me as a true believer who might be willing to put his ass on the line rather than simply spouting revolutionary prattle about the bankruptcy of our society, the vicious predation of capitalism and blood running in the streets.

If this our French Revolution than who is our Louis XVI?

Obama maybe?

You know, early on Louis tried to reduce government expenditures and implement reform, but he proved too weak to overcome the efforts of his opposition in the parlements.

Sound familiar?

You seem to object to American protests being compared to anything.

Arab spring? French & Russian peasantry?

No says Finn, things here are too good to be compared. Exactly, at what point do people get Finn's (much desired) permission to protest? At what point do they get your approval to cite history? How bad must things become?

The ethics of the actions people are protesting are not determined by the number of iPods in the crowd. They stand on their own, and just bceause we don't live in the third world, doesn't mean that white collar misdeeds should get a pass.



As for your problem (it is your problem) with the 99%, one doesn't get a choice to be it or not. It's a matter of economic breakdown. So perhaps you love to jab at rich 1%'s like Michael Moore (as an example) showing up and supporting #Occupy groups. Perhaps you find them insincere. You might even be right, but at the end of the the day, you're fighting to defend tax breaks for people like Moore, at your expense.

To do maintenance on this kind of belief, you've constructed many caricatures of the group, instead of in direct interaction. Why ask what they represent. You're in the group too, so represent yourself.

If you feel that Wall Street has done you so well, by all means go to your closest GA and tell them how bad you'd have been off without them.

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Not at all. I just object to the ridiculous comparisons.

Here's a protest of which a comparison with OWS makes more sense - and it's French!

French Fight Frankenveggies

I even think comparisons to the anti-war demonstrations of the Vietnam era while less outrageous are almost as ridiculous.

OWS doesn't need my permission to protest, but you know what? They have it!

OWSters also have my permission to make whatever ridiculous comparisons to actual revolutions help them feel more important. Of course I fully intend to laugh at them when they do, but all the more reason to give them my permission: I like a good laugh.

Whoever said white collar misdeeds should get a pass? Certainly not me.

Only three days ago the FBI arrested Rajat Gupta, former managing director of McKinsey & Company (arguably Wall Street's favorite Gran Vizier), on charges of insider trading; in connection with a Wall Street White Collar crime case in which his two buddies Raj Rajaratnam and Anil Kumar have already been convicted.

Rajaratnam was the former head of the Galleon Group, a hedge fund management group (you won't find worse Wall Street villains then hedge fund managers) and Kumar was a former partner at McKinsey.

I believe this scheme didn't amount to much more than $60 million, but it is touted by the Feds to be the largest hedge fund insider trading case in US history. Enough to pay off a lot of OWSter student loans in any case.

Surprisingly I've seen no indication at all that this case even nudged the awareness of OWS. At the very least, I would have thought we might see signs saying "We Got Gupta!" or "Way to go Feds!"

Maybe the OWsters were a bit squeamish seeing that main villains in this case were Indian or Sri Lankan. "Don't want to seem like our class hatred has anything to do with race!" Interestingly enough the US Attorney who brought them all down was Preet Bharara a Punjab born son of a Sikh father and Hindu mother.

Less you assume this is just another case of GOP backing scalawags from Wall Street, Rajaratnam, over a 5 year period, contributed $118,000 to Democratic National Committee and the campaigns of Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Charles Schumer, and Robert Menendez. (Not a Republican in sight)

Since this investigation has been going on since at least 2010, I don't think OWSters can take credit for stimulating it.

I'm quite happy these three have been brought down and I hope the Feds
keep up the good work with any other Wall Street White Collar Criminals they can find.

The New Yorker cover you posted is clever as many of them are. Of course
while I appreciate the protestors in the drawing are intended to represent Wall Streeters, the slogans on signs reading "Keep Things Precisely As They Are!" and "Change Schmange!" are fairly representative of the very legitimate conservative view point which The New Yorker considers apostasy.

You misunderstand my point about the 99% v the 1%. I'm not denying that such a rounded breakdown between the mega-rich and the rest of us (notice I don't consider myself part of the 1%) can be stated, I just reject the notion that the motley crews in city parks around the country can be considered representatives of my point of view or for the whole of the 99% That our positions may intersect at certain points (e.g. Michael Moore shouldn't get tax breaks) doesn't mean that my current disdain for this group is counter to my own interests.

I have repeatedly stated, in the past and in this forum, that I agree with number of the positions which I was able to assume OWS stood for, and that I looked forward to them attempting to actually effect change, but that anticipation, it’s now clear, was unfounded.

This movement is so incoherent that it is impossible to pin down what precisely it is all about. While some see it as the beginning of a process to tear everything down and start again, others have expressed the opinion that I am a capitalist dupe for taking them at their word.

This absurd notion that to lay out a clear set of goals and an agenda for change is playing into the hands of the 1% doesn't even rise to the lofty heights of paranoia. It's simply a case of fools making excuses for their lack of coherence, and the attempt to cloak their incoherence in New Age crap about networks and paradigm shifts is truly pathetic.

What you don't seem to understand is that one can be outraged and opposed to crony-capitalism and the criminal relationships formed between billionaires and our elected representatives without wanting to get in line with this collection of marching vagrants, slackers, radical-chic nitwits, old hippies trying to recapture their youth, new wannabes hippies who want their time in the sun, demented anarchists, and a relative handful of sincere and thoughtful people who have convinced themselves they are making a difference.

My one vote for a reform minded candidate is worth more to correcting the problems than all of the idiotic paper airplanes that these fools plan to fly at the Wall Street offices of major banks.

I dont feel sorry for these protesters at all.
They wanted to protest, here is their chance.

They have the right to protest, but I hope the owners of the fast food restaurants decide to not allow them access to the restrooms.
I hope that they do run out of their basic supplies, things like tents, sleeping bags, and shoes.

While I dont want any of them to get hurt or sick, I do want them to realize that their right to protest does not mean that we have to support them.

Let them survive a NYC winter with only what they brought with them, nothing more.

I don't think they want you to feel sorry for them.


Certainly.


Why? If they build a relationship with local businesses, or patronize them, there's no reason they should be denied.


I think most GAs have been proactively preparing for the winter.


Of course you don't have to support them. You're under no obligation. Have you been told otherwise?


Why must their survival be determined by what they brought? Why can't it also be about the relationships they build in the community, and donations they get?

Do you think they should turn down donations and gifts?

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...where you are the arbiter of what is ridiculous.

No true Scotsman would support #Occupy, right?

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Well of course Deist, just as you fancy yourself the arbiter of what is serious.