Is dating someone who's a different race okay?

@GracieGirl,

GracieGirl wrote:

Well, I think you were a really, really grown-up kid.

I always felt that way (my sense of self), in my emotions.
I never argued it, tho; I was not challenged on that point.
I was usually pretty QUIET, unless I had a reason not to be.

GracieGirl wrote:

LOL No offense, it's actually a compliment really.

When u referred to your classmates as being "idiots" I wondered Y u thawt that,
but then I remembered an incident. I was 13 when I returned to New York
from living in Arizona for 5 years. While going home from school on NYC buses,
I was extremely embarrassed at people of my age on those buses who acted in loud,
chaotic, frenzied manners, actually running in those buses, mindlessly yelling
and lightly hitting one another, on their way home from school.
I was ashamed to be considered to be one of them.

GracieGirl wrote:

Like Im mature and all, but sounds like you didnt act like a normal kid at all
when you were my age. Did you have any kind of fun?

Just taking cabs to the movies, or trips to a gunnery range
in Arizona, or hanging around with my friends. When I was 14,
I organized a conservative political club from students at school.
I became fiercely libertarian (i.e., freedom-loving, well, I always was).
Going to good restaurants was also fun; I enjoyed that. I still do.
About 30 years ago, I organized a fine dining group for Manhattan,
the Opulent Mensan Special Interest Group.

GracieGirl wrote:

Sounds like you were super serious.

That was repeatedly brought to my attention, at the time.
I had no interest in kids' usual interests (sports, etc.; in school,
I refused to participate in competitive athletics).
I remember when I was 12, in Arizona, my class in school
was commanded to go to the school library and check out a book; any book,
then to report on its contents a designated period of time thereafter.

I had trouble in finding one. Then I found an elementary book on nuclear physics,
concerning the relationships between matter and energy, Einstein 's Theory of Relativity,
and its irreconcilability with Quantum Mechanics. I loved it n took out more books on the same subjects
from the Phoenix Public Library.

By co-incidence, the following semester, their science class dealt with molecular phenomena.
Because of my earlier research, I knew more than the teacher did, and I began to correct the teacher in class.
That experience was UNIQUE; unheard of. The other students were astonished. Thay LOVED it; huge smiles.
I suddenly became Mr. Popularity because one of them, one of the students, knew more than the teacher
and was correcting him. Thay thought that (figuratively speaking) I was carrying THEIR Flag, representing them successfully against adults.
Thay got their egos off, vicariously.
Disagreements between the teacher and myself were resolved by their checking an encyclopedia
that we had in the classroom. That was fun. I learned that independent research can be fun.

GracieGirl wrote:

You were probably around adults all the time, huh?

For the first 7 years of my life, yes, a lot.
I noticed that older people, grandparent types, gave me
no trouble, whereas from kids my own age, I occasionally
had to defend myself; fistfights, but not ever with anyone over age 60.

GracieGirl wrote:

I know Im not an adult. Im reminded everyday when I get in trouble for 'talking back' or 'having an additude'.

U did not indicate WHO gives u this trouble.
Whoever, it is: u still have the right of free expression.
Whether u choose to exercise it or not is your decision.
U have to live YOUR life by your own lights,
as YOU see the situation and u must live with the results.
U r the Captain of the Good Ship Gracie.

If the trouble makers are public school teachers,
u might wanna remember that THAY work for YOU.
YOU don 't work for them. Thay are public servants. U r the public.
U might find it helpful to remember that thay r not above u,
not super-human: thay are people like u, not better than u.
I always bore that in mind in dealing with my employees, the teachers.

Now that u mention your problems with "answering back"
I remember an uncle who I had who disliked my arguing back,
which I did all the time, unless I agreed.
I was not loathe to point out errors of perception
or flaws in his reasoning.

He scornfully, disdainfully, said that I'd be priceless as a lawyer.
As it turned out, I did get fairly high professional fees as a lawyer
and my clients were very, very happy with the results I got for them in Court.
My uncle was surprized that I actually became a lawyer.

GracieGirl wrote:

I prefer 'teenager' over 'child' but I know Im not a grown-up.
I wont be a grown up until I can move out and start actually doing what I want,
whenever I want and not getting in trouble for it.

There r 2 criteria for being grown up:
1. biological: the natural growth and development of your body
2. legal: the passage of time since your birth.

I 'm sure u KNOW that some rules (e.g., tax rules) r not age dependent.

GracieGirl wrote:

I have to follow too many rules, how the heck could I see myself as a grown-up?

Some rules (not all rules) depend for their existence upon your WILLINGNESS
to follow them.

Some r only bluffs; unenforcible.

GracieGirl wrote:

That's something Im looking forward to though; being on my own and everything.

Freedom is good,
but wisdom requires u to ENJOY every age of your life
as much as u possibly can. When u r on your deathbed,
looking back, u shoud feel that u had as much fun in your life
as u possibly coud have, at EVERY age, in every circumstance.
Someone once said: "if it ain't fun, u r doing it rong."

GracieGirl wrote:

Time's going by pretty slow dude. (sigh)

That is a mind trick.
There is a reason for that.
As u get older, time will feel like it goes by faster, and faster.
The reason is the ratio between ALL the time
that u have experienced and any given unit of time.
As u age, that ratio keeps changing.

For instance:
Let us assume, for the sake of argument,
that consciousness begins at birth.
When a baby is 2 hours old
the fullness of ALL the time that he knows is 2 hours.
Ergo, the next hour will be fully half of all the time that he knows,
but after he is 1OO hours old, an hour is only 1% of all the time
that he has known. A summer vacation that u have from school
( maybe 3 months ? ) in relation to ALL the time that u have
experienced becomes a progressively smaller quantity of time,
RELATIVE to ALL the time that u have experienced,
as u get older, because that period of 3 months remains exactly
the same, but the entirety of your life keeps growing more n more,
so that 3 months becomes a progressively smaller fraction thereof.

David

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Once more a child who refused to listen can be send by the parents to such things as boot camps in the middle of a desert, a private reform school or they can go to the family courts and declare them to be out of control and have the family courts deal with them.

Children do not have a choice in obeying their parents as the parents had the ability to have them lock up in one manner or another if they do not in a worst case situation.

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Some rules (not all rules) depend for their existence upon your WILLINGNESS
to follow them.

Some r only bluffs; unenforcible.

That a great idea David as you get her into trouble in school or lead her down the path of to finding out that out of control children are not look upon with favor by the court system depending on how far she decide to take your advice in finding out that the society will in the end enforce it rules by force if need be.

1 Reply

@Eorl,

Quote:

Doesn't look far off the very definition of racism to me.

Oh come on, there are all sorts of social pressures and social influences that can operate in a high school environment and can impinge on and affect those involved in an inter-racial , or even inter-ethnic relationship--and none of it may reflect what is generally viewed as racism.
Just being outside of the norm can get the two people involved in such a relationship subjected to everything from stares, to snide or hostile comments, to bullying, to ostracism on a Facebook page, and lots of other unpleasant things, depending on the particular school environment, and parents who want to protect their children from that, particularly at that age, or kids who are fearful of that sort of social reaction if they date certain people, are not necessarily racist.
An African American male high school student who is possibly leery of negative social repercussions, or a loss in his own social standing in the school, if he dates a white girl, is not necessarily a racist, by any standard usage of that term. Inter-racial relationships can generate antagonisms in others outside of the relationship, in others who may well be racists, and that can result in more conflicts, and more stress, for those involved in such a relationship, and that can prove difficult for someone of high school age to handle. So a parent might have perfectly valid, and protective, reasons for trying to discourage their child from such a relationship, and racist feelings might not be part of that. That same parent might feel quite differently about the same relationship if their child was older, and at least of college age.

The reality is that we perceive visible racial distinctions, whether or not these constitute real, meaningful group differences. And we categorize people based on these differences--people are constantly asked, on one form or another, or by some survey taker, to identify themselves by their racial group. If nothing else, this racial component is a learned element of our own identity and also a component of how we learn to identify and categorize others. You can't pretend it doesn't exist. And I do not feel that the perception of visible racial differences, in and of itself, constitutes what is generally meant when we talk about racism.

Whether any real differences actually exist between racial groups, and whether we should even be making such distinctions, is an entirely different issue, and it's really not related to the sorts of questions GracieGirl asked in opening this thread. In the real everyday world people notice visible racial differences, and that's certainly true in the rather enclosed environment of a high school, particularly one that's predominantly white. An inter-racial couple will be noticed, they will stand out, and they are likely to get some, or many, reactions that a racially homogeneous couple might not get or might not provoke--and some of those reactions might be quite unpleasant. Not every high school student might want that kind of additional stress factor in a relationship, not every parent would want their child to have to deal with that kind of stress. The push toward conformity, through peer pressure, is relatively high in that age group and in that environment, and that alone can serve to discourage inter-racial dating in high school, without any implications of racism. In college, where the social atmosphere is quite different, inter-racial dating might be more likely, and considerably less noticed, and consequently potentially less stressful for the people involved.

So, I really don't share the same concept or definition of racism that you are using, but I also don't believe that racial differences account for any real differences between human beings--people are people. Which is why I think dating someone from any race is fine. But an inter-racial relationship can present challenges, and complications, and stresses, arising from factors outside the relationship, because there are racists in the world, and that might be difficult for a young person, in particular, to handle.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Once more a child who refused to listen can be send by the parents to such things as boot camps in the middle of a desert, a private reform school

Thay need simply leave,
or do not co-operate.

BillRM wrote:

or they can go to the family courts and declare them to be out of control and have the family courts deal with them.

Well, I agree that thay can withdraw financial support.
That 's only fair.

BillRM wrote:

Children do not have a choice in obeying their parents as the parents had the ability to have them lock up in one manner or another if they do not in a worst case situation.

I am an American because at age 12,
my uncle had a fight with his father, my grandfather, over proper English table manners.

He got thrown out of the house, but he had been born in New York in 1900 during a year long honeymoon.
Therefore, he was an American citizen, by birthright. He took a ship to New York (FORTUNATELY NOT The Titanic)
and about 15 years later, the rest of the family followed n became naturalized American citizens.

Therefore, I also was born in NY.
If my uncle had not stuck up for his personal rights,
then I 'd be a mere Englishman. gross

David

1 Reply

@BillRM,

David wrote:

Some rules (not all rules) depend for their existence upon your WILLINGNESS
to follow them.

Some r only bluffs; unenforcible.

BillRM wrote:

That a great idea David

Thank u; glad u like it.

BillRM wrote:

as you get her into trouble in school or lead her down the path of to finding out that out of control children are not look upon with favor by the court system depending on how far she decide to take your advice in finding out that the society will in the end enforce it rules by force if need be.

Well, I 'll stand by what I said.
Americans shoud be courageous and stand up for their freedom.
When u were a boy in Pa.,
were U brave enuf to stand up for your rights, Bill or not ??

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Thay need simply leave,
or do not co-operate.

Oh as they can be taken by force to a boot camp in the middle of a desert or lock up by force in a private reform school or be taken to a state lock up.

Not cooperating is not a good plan under that kind of extreme situation.

The society will used force or allow force to be use in worst case situations.

Now how do you think that a 13 years old is going to take care of herself on her own if she does leave/runaway?

You are being one hell of a good example of why children contacts on the internet need to be monitor carefully by their parents.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Americans shoud be courageous and stand up for their freedom.
When u were a boy in Pa.,

Children have the rights to be love and guided to successful adulthood by their parents without crazy people telling them on the internet to rebel from that guides long before they are able to stand on their own.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

David wrote:

Thay need simply leave,
or do not co-operate.

BillRM wrote:

Oh as they can be taken by force to a boot camp in the middle of a desert or lock up by force in a private reform school or be taken to a state lock up.

Not cooperating is not a good plan under that kind of extreme situation.

Well, its a matter of DEFENDING YOUR HONOR, Bill.
Its a matter of self respect.
I 'd have no respect for myself
if I had allowed myself to be bullied by anyone
(that never happened) including parents.

BillRM wrote:

The society will used force or allow force to be use in worst case situations.

Well, the victim will need to cope as well as possible.

BillRM wrote:

Now how do you think that a 13 years old is going to take care of herself on her own if she does leave/runaway?

U think I have a PLAN ready, as if I were promoting
her departure from home?????
I have not urged Gracie to leave home; it has not come to that.
I do not believe that it will.

BillRM wrote:

You are being one hell of a good example of why children contacts on the internet need to be monitor carefully by their parents.

I reject censorship, for people of any age.
(The only exception is military censorship.)

David

0 Replies

@BillRM,

David wrote:

Americans shoud be courageous and stand up for their freedom.
When u were a boy in Pa.,

BillRM wrote:

Children have the rights to be love

So, according to u,
if a parent does not LOVE a child,
then he or she has VIOLATED a right of that child???
HOW can the child enforce that right, Bill?????
Please explain that.

Please also tell us the SOURCE
of that right, if u don't mind. I'd like to know that.
Is it set forth in a contract, or a statute or WHERE???

BillRM wrote:

and guided to successful adulthood

I don ' t remember being GUIDED. I found my own way to adulthood
and I decided how to be successful. Did my parents VIOLATE
my rights, by failure to guide???? (Note that I did not request nor expect any guidance.)
How coud I have enforced that right of guidance, if thay did not guide me enuf?? Please explain.

BillRM wrote:

by their parents without crazy people telling them on the internet to rebel from that guides long before they are able to stand on their own.

Please PROVE that what u have alleged is true, about those rights, if u don 't mind.
I will look forward, eagerly, to that information.

David

1 Reply

@firefly,

Eorl misquoting firefly wrote:

Quote:
Doesn't look far off the very definition of racism to me.

Oh come on, there are all sorts of social pressures and social influences that can operate in a high school environment and can impinge on and affect those involved in an Aryan/Jewess relationship--and none of it may reflect what is generally viewed as racism.
Just being outside of the norm can get the two people involved in such a relationship subjected to everything from stares, to snide or hostile comments, to bullying, to ostracism on a Facebook page, and lots of other unpleasant things, depending on the particular school environment, and parents who want to protect their children from that, particularly at that age, or kids who are fearful of that sort of social reaction if they date certain people, are not necessarily racist.
An Aryan male high school student who is possibly leery of negative social repercussions, or a loss in his own social standing in the school, if he dates a jewish girl, is not necessarily a racist, by any standard usage of that term. Aryan/Jewish relationships can generate antagonisms in others outside of the relationship, in others who may well be racists, and that can result in more conflicts, and more stress, for those involved in such a relationship, and that can prove difficult for someone of high school age to handle. So a parent might have perfectly valid, and protective, reasons for trying to discourage their child from such a relationship, and racist feelings might not be part of that. That same parent might feel quite differently about the same relationship if their child was older, and at least of college age.

The reality is that we perceive visible racial distinctions, whether or not these constitute real, meaningful group differences. And we categorize people based on these differences--people are constantly asked, on one form or another, or by some survey taker, to identify themselves as Jewish or not. If nothing else, this racial component is a learned element of our own identity and also a component of how we learn to identify and categorize others. You can't pretend it doesn't exist. And I do not feel that the perception of visible racial differences, in and of itself, constitutes what is generally meant when we talk about racism.

Whether any real differences actually exist between Aryans and Jews and whether we should even be making such distinctions, is an entirely different issue, and it's really not related to the sorts of questions GracieGirl asked in opening this thread. In the real everyday world people notice visible racial differences, and that's certainly true in the rather enclosed environment of a high school, particularly one that's predominantly Aryan. An Aryan/Jewish couple will be noticed, they will stand out, and they are likely to get some, or many, reactions that a pureblood Aryan couple might not get or might not provoke--and some of those reactions might be quite unpleasant. Not every high school student might want that kind of additional stress factor in a relationship, not every parent would want their child to have to deal with that kind of stress. The push toward conformity, through peer pressure, is relatively high in that age group and in that environment, and that alone can serve to discourage Aryan/Jewish dating in high school, without any implications of racism. In college, where the social atmosphere is quite different, Jew dating might be more likely, and considerably less noticed, and consequently potentially less stressful for the people involved.

So, I really don't share the same concept or definition of racism that you are using, but I also don't believe that racial differences account for any real differences between human beings--people are people. Which is why I think dating someone from any race is fine. But an Aryan/Jewish relationship can present challenges, and complications, and stresses, arising from factors outside the relationship, because there are Nazis in the world, and that might be difficult for a young person, in particular, to handle.

I've replaced your skin-tone references with Aryan/Jew ones. Does the racism look any more clear when expressed this way?

Of course your definition of racism is different to mine. If it was, you'd have to admit your at best completely ok with racism, at worst... racist yourself. What the mother said is NOT OK. It's teaching the child racism and perpetuating the cycle.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

All in all David you might be able to sell your postings to a child internet filtering service as they surely could used them as examples in adv. to the kind of material and people no sane parents would wish their children to have contact of any kind with over the internet.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

All in all David you might be able to sell your postings to a child
internet filtering service as they surely could used them as
examples in adv. to the kind of material and people no sane parents
would wish their children to have contact of any kind with over the internet.

I don t need the money, Bill. I have no interest in selling.
I have interest in relaxing.
1. I treat people of all ages the same,
as long as thay are able to converse. I don 't like to discriminate, based on age.
2. I am a very anti-authoritarian person, Bill.
I hope that u have noticed that.

By the way, will u be forthcoming with proof of the existence
of those rights that u alleged, earlier in this thread??
I remain desirous of discovering their source,
or
were thay simply your personal wishes for how things shoud be?? Be honest.
Just for my information. . .

U know, Bill, when u have asked questions,
I have been meticulous in rendering specific answers thereto
and in commenting thereon, but u don 't seem to be paying much attention
to MY questions. That 's not fair. I wanna hear what u have to say,
in terms of FACTs, not emotional wishes. C'mon, fair is fair.

David

0 Replies

@GracieGirl,

I don't want to divert the thread (unlike some do here), but I'd like to know how it happened that the schools allowed you to skip more than one grade? I was of the understanding that schools only allow one grade skip since the late '60s. Are you in private school or public? Feel free to answer this wherever or however you feel suits you.

Also how is it that you were able to advance. Home study?

1 Reply

@Ragman,

Well, I skipped kindergarten 1st. So I was 5 when I started 1st grade. And then 3rd grade year my teacher recommended advanced classes so I got tested for advanced classes. I did really really well and took another test and talked to a some lady and instead of just getting advanced classes I skipped 3rd grade completely. I was in private school for a little while when I was younger. I'm in public school now.

How wad I able 2 advance? I think I just answered that LOL but when I was younger my aunt (who's a teacher) spent alot of time showing us stuff and teaching us stuff when we were little so that could've helped. And I'm just a really smart kid. Haha! By the time I turned 5 I was way ahead of kindergardeners. I think my dad asked the school administrators or school board about us skipping and they tested me and decided to do it. Wink

School allow kids to skip grades (usually just 1) but it's rare i guess.

0 Replies

@firefly,

Haha!

Yeah, that was a weird question to ask! Haha! It was awkward answering that.I didn't think you were an idiot though. You just had me confused. Haha!

And yeah, the age thing is annoying but things are better this school year. I look older now and I fit in better. Last year I was 12 with 14 and 15 year olds and i didn't fit in at all but this year is going pretty awesome for me.

My dad is SUPER strict about dating. And yeah, I know that it makes since to be overprotective because guys are older but I'm not an idiot and all my friends are dating. It's just really annoying. Most guys don't even wanna date me because I'm younger.

Krystal is dating Ty!! And theyre soo cute! Her mom is still being weird about it She doesn't even treat Ty the same anymore. I mean, she's still nice because she's a nice lady buy it's different. Kids at school say some stuff, like rumors and stuff but Kry's and Ty don't seem to care really. They're really cute. I'm happy for them.

1 Reply

@Eorl,

Quote:

I've replaced your skin-tone references with Aryan/Jew ones. Does the racism look any more clear when expressed this way?

No, it really doesn't look clearer to me. We are using different definitions of racism--which means we aren't both talking about the same thing.The definition of racism I am using is the one more more generally used and agreed upon and it refers to the prejudicial attitudes people hold, or the discriminatory or abusive behavior people display, toward others of different racial groups.

The definition you are using seems to deem as racist any visible perception of racial differences, and I simply cannot agree with that definition--it fails to take into account the social learning/conditioning that takes place in a culture regarding race, and the related perception of visible racial differences that occurs as a consequence of such social learning.

Similarly, in the example you gave, I would not consider every Christian who prefers not to date Jews to be an anti-Semite. If Christianity is a significant factor in one's life, and a central component of an individual's values, and the sharing of those values in an intimate relationship is considered of extreme importance, there is no reason for that person not to exclusively date others who share their faith. That doesn't mean the person holds negative feelings toward those of other religious groups or feels superior to them. Because one feels more comfortable and familiar with others from similar cultural, or religious, or racial groups, does not mean one is necessarily or automatically a bigot.
The more there is similarity of background, culture, religion, ethnic group, etc. between partners in close relationships, the less potential sources of conflict exist, and the more successful a long-term relationship or marriage might be. So, those who are dating with an eye on forming a long term bond, often make choices based on similarities rather than differences because those similarities may facilitate shared goals, shared values, shared agreement on how to raise children, etc. all of which may help to maintain a more stable long term relationship.

Quote:

Of course your definition of racism is different to mine. If it was, you'd have to admit your at best completely ok with racism, at worst... racist yourself.

I am definitely not "ok with racism"--as I define racism. I can understand it, mainly in terms of social conditioning--the learning and accepting of negative stereotypes toward racial groups other than one's own-- but such stereotyping is divisive and often destructive, often highly inaccurate, and definitely not something I condone, support, facilitate, or engage in. The fact that I can perceive visible racial characteristics in groups of people--just as I can perceive differences in gender, height, hair color, eye color etc., does not make me a racist, and, if you would consider me to be a racist simply because I can perceive and identify such visible physical differences, I'd frankly consider you irrational. Just perceiving visible physical differences does not mean that I am making value judgments about those differences or ascribing any negative (or positive) characteristics to entire groups.

Quote:

What the mother said is NOT OK. It's teaching the child racism and perpetuating the cycle.

I don't know why that mother made that comment to her daughter. I don't know whether or not that mother holds racist attitudes. Maybe the mother is uncomfortable with her daughter dating a boy from a different racial group because she fears her child, or the boy, will become the target of other people's racism and she's just trying to protect her child. The mother apparently has no problem with her daughter socializing with this boy or having him as a friend, so her feelings toward him as a person are apparently not colored by racial bias. I think you are the one jumping to conclusions and ascribing a negative stereotype of "racist" to her without any adequate justification for doing that. Maybe the mother is bigoted, but I don't think we know enough about her to make that assumption.

Children are already aware of visible racial differences as early as the ages of 4 or 5. The mother of a high school student isn't suddenly bringing that perception of racial differences to her daughter's attention. Nor is every parent who does not encourage assimilation, be it assimilation between racial groups, or assimilation on the basis of religion, culture, ethnicity, etc., necessarily a bigot. Not everyone wants to assimilate and obliterate all differences--and there can be a variety of reasons for that, reasons which can contain both positive and negative attitudes and aspects. Not everyone in the world wants to see all of mankind homogenized in one large melting. There are positive and enriching aspects to diversity and "differentness".

We just don't agree on this one, Eorl. We are viewing it from very different perspectives and using different definitions of racism. We are each entitled to our own viewpoints and opinions on the topic.

But, we both seem to agree that there is nothing wrong with dating someone from a racial group that is different than our own.

4 Replies

@firefly,

...could n´t agree more with you...flawless explanation on the problem at hand.

Is dating someone who's a different race okay?

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