26
   

So, suppose the far right wins

 
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:31 am
@Setanta,
Oh I know.

You do realize that there was an Wink in my post, Setanta?

Once he called me "Comrade MsOlga" (or something to that effect).
I cried & cried for weeks, I was so affronted, hurt & humiliated! Smile

Thomas
 
  7  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:33 am
Ossobucco wrote:
So, suppose the far right wins

If the far right wins---
  • President Perry and vice president Bachmann will instruct Treasury chief Paul to return the Fed to the gold standard, or something close to it. This will aggravate the Lesser Depression.

  • Together with Congress, president Perry will privatize Social Security on terms that please the financial industry, but undermines the financial security of seniors. To be fair, Perry will pray for those seniors a lot at the prayer meetings he'll organize for the Southern Baptist community of DC.

  • President Perry will replace retiring Supreme Court justices Breyer and Ginsburg with conservative hardliners who will further chip away at abortion rights, further strengthen the legal standing of corporations, and further cut regular citizens out of access to the legal system.

  • Neoconservative advisors will persuade president Perry to attack Iran with freedom bombs.

  • The Democratic opposition, still inspired by the spirit of ex-president Obama, will introduce bills that split the difference between far-right Republican positions and whatever would constitute sane policies. They won't filibuster anything.

It's a very, very depressing outlook.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:36 am
@Setanta,
OK.
Thanks.

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:39 am
Apologies for my frivolity during the discussion of such serious subject.
Please continue now.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 04:41 am
Frivolity is our middle name . . .
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 07:43 am
@Setanta,
Yes, that's the fellow.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 07:44 am
@msolga,
He told me I wasn't free.
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 07:56 am
@izzythepush,
Well, you could be free if you'd just get a pistol and go shoot a few dozen people . . .
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 07:58 am
@Setanta,
I suspect Dave is a fan of the terrible Are You Being Served.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 10:32 am
@Setanta,
You know Set, I hate it when you attack me, but really enjoy it when you attack George and David.
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 10:48 am
I am less scared by the idea of a President Romney than pretty much every other option. I think he has a basically competent and pragmatic viewpoint (healthcare in Massachusetts) and that he's throwing the far right some red meat so he can get the nomination.

I both dislike the fact that he's doing that and question whether he'll be able to fool the far right/ tea party contingent long enough to get the nomination.

And the other options genuinely worry me, a lot. (Bachmann, Perry, Paul, Palin, etc.)
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 11:19 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

My statement is easily defensible, and i've defended it before. You just don't like to acknowledge that your idol Ronnie Ray-gun cannot be credited for the collapse of the Soviet Union.
But I didn't claim that he alone did that - as you well know.

Setanta wrote:

The Soviet Union had committed large numbers of troops to eastern Europe before Reagan was elected, and before he was a candidate. The Soviet Union had invaded Afghanistan before Reagan was elected and before he was a candidate. All of the major weapons systems in the last decade of the Soviet Union--the T72 main battle tank, the MiG25 and MiG29, the Sukoi 25, the last models of the SCUD missiles--were already deployed or in the final stages of testing before Reagan was elected and before he was a candidate.
Your story incomplete in several important details here, and the relationship of your point to your conclusion is illogical.

Setanta wrote:

Your entire theory of how Ronnie Ray-gun's wild and irresponsible "defense" spending brought about the fall of the Soviet Union is bullshit, and is not supported by the evidence.
But that wasn't my story at all. That was instead your self-serving, simplistic target of choice.

Setanta wrote:

There was already a movement to break away from the Soviet Union in Poland and Hungary before Reagan was elected. More than anything else, the administration of Mikhail Gorbachev with his glasnost and perestroika (those may not be correctly spelled, but i'm not going to any trouble to theck them when i'm pointing out to you what i've pointed out to you before) lead to the demise of the Soviet Union. In the specific case of East Germany, the decision of the Hungarians to open their border with Austria lead to a cascade of events which the East German authorities could not control. That decision was a direct result of the policies of Gorbachev.
Many things contributed to the fall of the Soviet Union, including the factors you identified and, as well as even the unexpected beneficial effects of the International Convention on Human Rights, championed by Jimmy Carter. However, I don't think that Gorbacchev conteplated or wished for the disintegrtation of either the Soviet Empire in Europe or the USSR.

Setanta wrote:

Your statement is bullshit because there was no "anticipated" time for the collapse of the Soviet Union. You just want to wax rhapsodic about your hero Ray-gun. Too bad the facts don't support your bullshit.
An intemperate statement that flies in the face of the facts. I asserted that Reagan hastened the fall of a corrupt but still dangerous Empire. He did so in part by repeating to a Western Europe all too willing to ignore the situation and the condition of their neighbors in Central Europe and to live comfortably in the shadow of a superpower confrontation, the danger and oppression in their region, and in many other ways encouraged the resistance of restive political groups in the captive nations. By the way I herd that opinion expressed a great deal by people I met in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland during a tour last year.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 11:53 am
So, suppose the far right wins

this tune by Camper Van Beethoven sort of sums up my view of America the in the future

Well I lost an eye in Mexico
Lost two teeth where I don't know
People see me comin' and they move to the other side of the road.

I robbed a liquor store or two
Made myself at home a few times
Borrowed myself a car when I needed it.

I got me a shack at the bottom of the road
Fixin' cars and givin' tows
Spend all my money on the lottery.

When I win the lottery gonna buy all girls on my block
A color TV and a bottle of French perfume
When I win the lottery gonna donate half my money to the city
So they have to name a street or a school or a park after me
When I win the lottery

Never run a flag up a pole
Like Mr. Red, White, and Blue down the road
But I never called myself a hero for killing a known communist.

Now I can walk into any old bar
Find a fight without looking too hard
But I never killed someone I don't know just 'cause someone told me to.

And when I win the lottery
Gonna buy the house next to Mr. Red, White and Blue
And when I win the lottery
Gonna buy Post 306 American Legion, paint it red with five gold stars.
When I win the lottery.

When the end comes to this old world
The righteous will cry and the rest will curl up
And God won't take the time to sort your ashes from mine.

'Cause we zig and zag between good and bad
Stumble and fall on right and wrong
'Cause the tumbling dice and the luck of the draw just leads us on.

And when I win the lottery, gonna buy all the girls on my block
Silver-plated six shooters and a quart of the finest highland scotch
'Cause when I win the lottery, the righteous will shake their heads and say that
God is good but surely works in mysterious ways.
When I win the lottery.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 01:13 pm
@georgeob1,
Oh yes, you may not have done it this time, but that's because you've gotten burned in the past. In the past, you have claimed that Ray-gun's defense spending program was the cause of the collapse of the Soviet Union. If my story is incomplete, and therefore the conclusion illogical, it should be simplicity itself to supply the necessary details to make your case. I see you haven't done that. It has indeed been your story for years that Ray-gun's restarting of the arms race brought about the collapse of the Soviet Union. That you want to be dishonest about that now doesn't surprise me, since you haven't the evidence to support your case. I have not, of course, ever alleged that Gorbachev wished to see the downfall of the Soviet Union, but your argument is in such desperate straits, i can see why you attempt that strawman. Your comments about the callous indifference of western Europeans is a non sequitur in this argument, but i can see that you would want to divert attention form the poverty of your claims.
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 01:15 pm
@RABEL222,
I'll see if i can't keep you entertained. I don't attack these people, or you, personally, you know. O'George and i happen to agree on quite a few things.

OK, i do attack David personally . . . but he so richly deserves it, the obsessive loon.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 01:19 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

I have not, of course, ever alleged that Gorbachev wished to see the downfall of the Soviet Union,


That's the law of unforseen circumstances, but what we should really be grateful for, was that Gorbachev was in the Kremlin during that lunatic's time in office. If there had been a more Stalin-like figure in charge we may well not be having this conversation, or any conversation for that matter, at all.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 01:49 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
If the far right wins---
  • President Perry and vice president Bachmann will instruct Treasury chief Paul to return the Fed to the gold standard, or something close to it. This will aggravate the Lesser Depression.
We have far too much public debt to even contemplate such an action, and I'm sure that both Govs. Romney and Perry are well aware of that. Indeed it was the huge debt and future liabilities accumulated under the Johnson Administration for the Vietnam War and the Great Society entitlement programs that, in the early 1970s, induced Nixon to abandon the gold standard and the Breton Woods convention that anchored the world's currencies after WWII. I'm sure you are aware of the potential contributions of this act to the current world wide financial crisis.

Thomas wrote:
[*]Together with Congress, president Perry will privatize Social Security on terms that please the financial industry, but undermines the financial security of seniors. To be fair, Perry will pray for those seniors a lot at the prayer meetings he'll organize for the Southern Baptist community of DC.
I believe you are mocking and trivializing a very serious issue. Based on current demographic projections the Social Security Trust will be unable to meet its obligations in about 18 years - a very short interval of time in which to institute corrections sufficient to stave off the eventual collapse of the system. Merely extending the age of eligibility a year or two isn't sufficient to do the job. Moreover recent surges in SS disability claims are rapidly worsening the approaching crisis. The furure financial security of seniors has already been undermined by this situation and it merits constructive action to fix it.

Thomas wrote:
[*] President Perry will replace retiring Supreme Court justices Breyer and Ginsburg with conservative hardliners who will further chip away at abortion rights, further strengthen the legal standing of corporations, and further cut regular citizens out of access to the legal system.
Abortion rights are quite unlimited in the country. No significant "chipping away" has occurred. Our tort laws are quite unusual in the modern world, and Perry's reforms in Texas merely established the norms that currently prevail in the paradises of western Europe.

Thomas wrote:
[*] The Democratic opposition, still inspired by the spirit of ex-president Obama, will introduce bills that split the difference between far-right Republican positions and whatever would constitute sane policies. They won't filibuster anything.

You are confusing the cynical political maneuverings of Democrats, when they hold the Presidency and a majority in the Senate, with their behavior while in the minority opposition. The relevant facts don't support your contentions here.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 01:58 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
So, suppose the far right wins
OK: I am supposing.
More than that: I am on my way to vote for a far rightwinger: Bob Turner,
who has the NRA endorsement.
This is the election to replace extreme left Democrat pervert Weiner.
Obviously: if this Congressional District elected HIM,
then it is not a conservative area. It never has been,
but the Republican rightwinger is now ahead in the polls.
I am taken aback at the prospect of success from this district.
We will see. I will vote for him; I 'll do my best.

I just got a fone call telling me to go vote for him,
so I 'll comply. Here I go, Osso!





David
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:04 pm
@ossobuco,


You say 'far right' as if you know what you are talking about.

Since there are no far right candidates, how can the 'far right' win?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 13 Sep, 2011 02:21 pm
@ossobuco,
This is why it is difficult to take your hand wringing about a "far-right" victory in 2012 seriously.

 

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