The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

dlowan wrote:

It could be just a TEENY bone?

Yeah, that's Bob alright.

Me, I hate it when any innocent people die.

There are many ways in which I wish America and Americans were different, but I don't think this act, which I think was a direct response and message to us about how our way of life -'godless', I think it was called at the time -was received with displeasure by these people- was at all a productive way to address the problem.

Quote:

Me, I hate it when any innocent people die.

You sure are quiet on that particular subject though, aren't you, JW?

JW: Me, I hate it when any innocent people die.

Not at all.

where I could talk about American guilt

The subject of this thread deserves grief, not guilt.

The United States is a Leading Terrorist State
Noam Chomsky interviewed by David Barsamian

...

Q: Your comment that the U.S. is a “leading terrorist state” might stun many Americans. Could you elaborate on that?

A: I just gave one example, Nicaragua. The U.S. is the only country that was condemned for international terrorism by the World Court and that rejected a Security Council resolution calling on states to observe international law. It continues international terrorism. That example’s the least of it. And there are also what are in comparison, minor examples. Everybody here was quite properly outraged by the Oklahoma City bombing, and for a couple of days, the headlines all read, Oklahoma City looks like Beirut. I didn’t see anybody point out that Beirut also looks like Beirut, and part of the reason is that the Reagan Administration had set off a terrorist bombing there in 1985 that was very much like Oklahoma City, a truck bombing outside a mosque timed to kill the maximum number of people as they left. It killed eighty and wounded two hundred, aimed at a Muslim cleric whom they didn’t like and whom they missed. It was not very secret. I don’t know what name you give to the attack that’s killed maybe a million civilians in Iraq and maybe a half a million children, which is the price the Secretary of State says we’re willing to pay. Is there a name for that?

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/200111--02.htm

The United States is a Leading Terrorist State
Noam Chomsky interviewed by David Barsamian
Monthly Review, vol. 53, no. 6, November, 2001

...

Another is the people of the region. They’re connected, of course. The bin Laden network and others like them draw a lot of their support from the desperation and anger and resentment of the people of the region, which ranges from rich to poor, secular to radical Islamist. The Wall Street Journal, to its credit, has run a couple of articles on attitudes of wealthy Muslims, the people who most interest them: businessmen, bankers, professionals, and others through the Middle East region who are very frank about their grievances. They put it more politely than the poor people in the slums and the streets, but it’s clear. Everybody knows what they are. For one thing, they’re very angry about U.S. support for undemocratic, repressive regimes in the region and U.S. insistence on blocking any efforts towards democratic openings. You just heard on the news, it sounded like the BBC, a report that the Algerian government is now interested in getting involved in this war. The announcer said that there had been plenty of Islamic terrorism in Algeria, which is true, but he didn’t tell the other part of the story, which is that a lot of the terrorism is apparently state terrorism. There’s pretty strong evidence for that. The government of course is interested in enhancing its repression, and will welcome U.S. assistance in this.

In fact, that government is in office because it blocked the democratic election in which it would have lost to mainly Islamic–based groups. That set off the current fighting. Similar things go on throughout the region.

The “moneyed Muslims” interviewed by the Journal also complained that the U.S. has blocked independent economic development by “propping up oppressive regimes,” that’s the phrase they used. But the prime concern stressed in the Wall Street Journal articles and by everybody who knows anything about the region, the prime concern of the “moneyed Muslims”—basically pro–American, incidentally—is the dual U.S. policies, which contrast very sharply in their eyes, towards Iraq and Israel. In the case of Iraq, for the last ten years the U.S. and Britain have been devastating the civilian society. Madeleine Albright’s infamous statement about how maybe half a million children have died, and it’s a high price but we’re willing to pay it, doesn’t sound too good among people who think that maybe it matters if a half a million children are killed by the U.S. and Britain.

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/200111--02.htm

Thank you for saying that, aidan. My thoughts are the same.

But I don't believe that the people who died on 9/11 and their families deserved to pay the price they did for what the American government and people, for that matter, represent to the rest of the world.

And maybe if we stopped either granting or witholding our sympathy to differing degrees dependent upon the nationality of the victims - something might change.
And I believe that those of us who continue to differentiate as to who deserves more grief than others are perpetuating the system that allows us, as human beings on this planet, to attribute either less or more value to other human beings and treat them callously accordingly.

Using A2K as just one metric, what country do you think has received the most sympathy?

Using a2k as a metric, I'd wager just about any other country receives more sympathy in almost any situation. I read alot of anti-American sentiment here.

I think it's all about 'comeuppance'. I think that's why the deed was done in the first place by al qaeda - to give America a taste of comeuppance,-and I think that's why a lot of people from other countries can't find it in their hearts to give too much of a **** about it to sympathize with or revere its victims - they enjoy- maybe that's too strong a word, but don't really mind- seeing America and Americans getting hit with a bit of comeuppance.

It's like when my father died, I was more upset than when any of my friend's fathers died. But did I go around saying, 'Well my father died too' when their fathers died? Hell, no - I remembered how badly I felt when my father died and I said, 'I know this must be very difficult for you - I am so, so sorry for your loss.'

I flew to Europe in Oct. 2011 and this is opposite to what I was told by the Germans, French, Swiss and Austrians. What countries are you speaking of?