The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

we would also need to target 14-18 year old white boys with long hair, or baggy jeans, or long jackets, or chains hanging on their pants, or combat boots.. etc.

Those guys shoot up schools ALL the time..

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@manored,

Quote:

Dont let it get to you, I would say. Even with thousands of deaths, it was still a very very minimal part of the american population than died or had relatives killed in the attack, it can hardly be said that the attack means americans are less safe. That kind of thinking is exactly what the authors of the attack wanted... terrorism works by creating irrational fear in the target population, by giving the impression of that the terrorists have a lot of killing power even though they actually are very weak and small organizations.

huh - I let the life of one person that passes from this life bother me. Whether it was from natural causes or war. I am not saying I can't function - but it is sad...even though it is a natural part of life. It has to do with valuing folks - no matter what they believe, where they are from, or if they annoy the hell out of me or not.

That was just my first real eye opener that here on American soil we could be vulnerable as well. I was a new mom of twin baby boys though...I think that
is probably why I felt it so deeply. I never had to worry about anyone but myself prior to those babies....

but all of that to say - yes...I think it is appropriate to honor the lives taken on September 11, 2001. Just like I think it appropriate to honor all the lives that have been taken since that horrible event. The tough thing there is that war has scattered those lost lives over years rather than one large punctuated event - much easier to memorialize one large event on a certain day. But that makes it no less tragic.

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@ Manored

Quote:

The fact that the attackers were muslim radicals doesnt means that the people they will send to do their stuff will always be obviously from the same nation, ethnicity and religion. They know very well people inside this "scope" will be searched and denied more so they try to hire/recruit people outside of it. That said, I do think that airplane searches are kinda excessive.

That is a good point manored but there is no proof of what you claim. As I pointed out the shoe bomber and the under ware bomber were both from Muslim countries, not American citizens. To say we have to search everyone at this point in time then is not creditable since we have not seen terrorists try and use others. They might shift their ways but so far no evidence has surfaced that this is the case.

@JTT

Quote:

This illustrates a very real problem in doing "targeted inspections".
The real odd thing is that there are likely thousands of Americans/Canadians/Australians/Brits/... terrorists/war criminals that get onto planes everyday without any checks at all.
Hell, CIA operatives, clearly terrorists, fly about the planet all the time.

Your bias disqualifies you from the discussion. The real odd thing about your post is that the US has fixed the flying status of the guy in the article. It is the CA people who are screwing the poor fella over. I'm not concerned with CA flying laws as I don't fly there. Looks like the US is fixing the issue from their end though. "American authorities granted him a Nexus card to enter the U.S. and he said he has no trouble boarding flights with U.S. airlines."

@shewolfnm

Quote:

we would also need to target 14-18 year old white boys with long hair, or baggy jeans, or long jackets, or chains hanging on their pants, or combat boots.. etc.
Those guys shoot up schools ALL the time..

If we were talking about school security then I would agree with you. Since we are not talking about school security I will disagree with you. Has there been a time when one of the people you are describing took over a plane and crashed it or planted explosives in their under ware or shoes to blow it up? I don't think so. I already said I supported checking out white people who buy large amounts of fertilizer.

1 Reply

To those innocent people who were murdered on that day, we are not afraid. We, the people, took a stance and fought back. You did not die in vein. I, as well as many others, are not scared of the terrorists. We will fight you and you will not win.

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@trying2learn,

trying2learn wrote:

To those innocent people who were murdered on that day, we are not afraid. We, the people, took a stance and fought back. You did not die in vein. I, as well as many others, are not scared of the terrorists. We will fight you and you will not win.

You do realize you are talking to dead people who can neither hear you, or care about what you say because, well, they no longer exist.

If you wish to discuss terrorism, do so. If you wish to play out your fantasy of talking to the dead, as if they are sitting around yearning to hear your platitudes, please do so in your head.

BTW, they did not die "in vein" because they don't have veins anymore. They are dead.

It is 10 years later, and the bulk of the family members of the dead have in their own ways moved forward with their lives. The same way most people have moved forward 10 years after a loved one dies.
Why are you trying to keep them in the pain of 10 years ago? New marriages have been made, children been born (and not the the "eternally tragic" 911 babies.) Teens grown into adults, and are now productive members of society.

Why do you keeping dragging these people and their personal past grieving into the limelight? Give them their privacy.

Never forget?
Well, Remember Pearl Harbor.
Remember the Maine. (I don't think anyone remembers that one).
Remember the Alamo.

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@trying2learn,

trying2learn wrote:

I am starting this discussion to remember all of those that lost their lives that day and to honor all the victims. None of them deserved what happened to them that horrible day. I wouldn't want anyone in any country to experience what happened.

Chai,TTH started this thread to remember the day and the dead. From her other threads it's reasonable to assume that she does indeed think they can hear her. Why should she not talk about the very thing she started the thread to discuus?

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@chai2,

The OP has a right to recall whatever they choose. Who are you to dictate their choices, their time frames, their thought process, their beliefs?

Why attack the OP on the continued memorials and services? While you squawk about how the families have moved on, "dragging these people and their personal past grieving into the limelight. Please give them their privacy." you seem to forget that many of the families of victims of that day, choose to continue public displays of grief. Their choice. They return annually (and often during the year) to the places where the loss happened. Their choice. Many give interviews, give talks, again, their choice. Who are we to tell people how to conduct their lives as they move forward in their own way? Perhaps this is the path the OP has selected, to make a simple post asking us to remember, perhaps with the hope that such events won't occur again.

Mark died that day, I remember him regularly.

A few months after, in January 2002, a relative died. I still choke up when I speak of him...am I not moving forward swift enough for you?

Who are you to decide a time frame for grief and when it should be over?

Pearl Harbor, The Alamo, The Maine...familiar with them all, as are many and what they represent, are you?

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

Pearl Harbor, The Alamo, The Maine...familiar with them all, as are many and what they represent, are you?

Yes I am.
However, each year we don't drag out the families and put them on display. If that were the case, we would all be in a constant state of mourning, a dozen events a day.

Eventually, things have to be put in their place. 10 years later would not be considered by most to take off the widow weeds.

If a family wants to display themselves, that's exactly it. Let Them display Themselves, and not do it for them. At some point it changes from honoring them to reality TV status.

Why do You assume sturgis, that I was not personally affected by that day?
How do you know I don't get choked up whenever I think of someone, or several someones?

Thing is, that would be my grief, and personal.

T2L can grieve, make herself a martyr in anyway she sees fit.
Who are You to dictate strugis, that I can't come on here and express my opinion on this?

If the subject is terrorism, let's talk nuts and bolts.

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@chai2,

Quote:

If the subject is terrorism, let's talk nuts and bolts.

It's clear that you, and pretty much everyone else, are congenitally unable to do that, Chai.

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@chai2,

Actually many still go to Pearl Harbor...the Arizona has been made into a memorial. Not just vets have gone there. Perhaps we should resink the Arizona or maybe turn it into scrap metal, because of course, oh hell that's in the past, must move on now, mustn't we.

"widow weeds"? Gee, would you like to tell Diane her length of allowed time to grieve over her Bob? As I indicated in that thread, (passing of Bob Welles/dyslexia) my mother made the statement many years ago, when people like you were complaining that Mrs.H. on the next block still hadn't gotten past the loss of her husband (he died suddenly by the way, at traffic intersection), my mother, said that there was no set time frame for grief.

You of course continually contradict yourself....maybe. You tell us that displays must be private, and that there is a proper length of time for grief, then say people can appear in public if they so choose and then hint (and only hint) that you might get choked up.

And for the record, I never said you weren't affected by that day or that you didn't know anyone killed that day. Stop with your antics. This is as absurd and Chai2-self-absorbed as your damned pool thread. (hey, I said I wouldn't add in there, didn't say I'd not mention it elsewhere). Any way, you can grieve whatever way you want, private or public, others should be afforded the same courtesy and that includes trying2learn. If T2L wants to talk aloud, to spirits then so be it. I talk to those who've gone before. I envision them and have conversations....perhaps they are aware, perhaps they are not. It's how I manage in times of struggle. Dave Van Ronk pulled me through a horrendous time.
Jean helped me in a heart-stress-test, I could hear her, telling me, "now you've done it kiddo." and felt her gentle hand on mine, during the remainder of that test.
I distinctly heard Jerry whisper in my ear, "It's not cancer; but, it is serious." All 3 of the just mentioned were dead when I got strength from them. Maybe they were present, maybe I just imagined it...it was my place and what I did. Too bad for you if you don't believe or approve and guess what? I don't care if you do or don't and I ain't looking to force my ways upon you, whereas you constantly want to force all your crap on everybody else. We must listen and obey or deal with your belabored whining.

Yes, you have your grief and it's personal. Others have the same. Some additionally choose to display their emotions or have a need to be with others that experienced the same sort of loss. There are families of people who died in the line of duty (military, fired depts. police depts. etc. etc.) that have regular gatherings, long long after the loved one is gone. It's a form and part of continued grieving and remembrance and their way of moving forward.

By the way, the OP didn't indicate the thread subject was to be about 'terrorism'. They said they were starting a thread to "remember those that lost their lives that day and to honor all the victims." -Remember and honor.

T2L went on to say it was a horrible day, and didn't want any others (anyone in any country) to experience what happened. You turned it into terrorism. Then again, you turn Mexican men into child molesters, so why should I be surprised.

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You're wrong sturgis. The OP was the first to mention terrorism in her 2nd post in this thread. After that, many other posters started talking about terrorism.

Honestly?
My eyes just scanned over 99% of your post, and got caught up by that one lie, that I was the one to turn this to talk of terrorism.

I guess there's other untruths in there, but I just can't be bothered with you and for looking for all of them.

I stand by what I said, all of it.

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@Ragman,

Quote:

War is hell.

It wasn't war, Ragman. 'war' is clearly defined under international law. Launching a War of Aggression based on lies is a war crime.

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

If you wish to play out your fantasy of talking to the dead, as if they are sitting around yearning to hear your platitudes, please do so in your head.

You play out your fantasies here. Many of us do.

Shouldn't TTL have the same right?

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@Baldimo,

Quote:

Your bias disqualifies you from the discussion. The real odd thing about your post is that the US has fixed the flying status of the guy in the article. It is the CA people who are screwing the poor fella over. I'm not concerned with CA flying laws as I don't fly there. Looks like the US is fixing the issue from their end though. "American authorities granted him a Nexus card to enter the U.S. and he said he has no trouble boarding flights with U.S. airlines."

Typical of you Baldimo. Yes, the guy was being screwed over by Canadian airlines that were kowtowing to the idiotic requirements that have been foisted on the world by a way too paranoid US.

But, more importantly, you failed to address the fact that there are many US terrorists/war criminals who daily fly around the globe.

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@chai2,

I was referring to the OP and only that post. I don't give a flying fig what they went to later. So, Miss Self-righteous, I didn't tell a lie.

Of course, in your usual "I'm am all knowing and blah blah blah..." you want others to read all of every post, yet, you see no need to do the same with other posts, summarily dismissing them, mainly because they don't fall in line with your narrow minded view.

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@trying2learn,

Quote:

To those innocent people who were murdered on that day, we are not afraid. We, the people, took a stance and fought back. You did not die in vein. I, as well as many others, are not scared of the terrorists. We will fight you and you will not win.

If you really are trying to learn, Trying2learn, you've got some distance to go. You mention, only in passing, those outside the US. Why, when they have been subjected to terrorist actions by US governments for well over a century.

The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were terrorist actions, a long series of war crimes committed by the US government. The number of deaths in those countries make 9-11 look like a picnic in the park.

Long before 9-11, the US used the Afghan people to "hand the Russians their own Vietnam". US politicians thought that a million or so Afghans killed in order to do this was a reasonable price to pay.

The US government has been terrorizing the poor countries of the world for well over a century for the sole purpose of stealing their wealth.

"We, the people" didn't take a stance. "We, the people" got badly duped, how many times was this, it's so hard to keep count, into supporting more war crimes, more terrorist activities, more rape and torture.

The poor people of the world would really like to know when it is going to end.

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@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

T2L went on to say it was a horrible day, and didn't want any others (anyone in any country) to experience what happened. You turned it into terrorism.

The You you referred to in Your quote above refers to Me turning this into terrorism.

So....that is not true, as I said.
It is...a lie.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

chai2 wrote:
If you wish to play out your fantasy of talking to the dead, as if they are sitting around yearning to hear your platitudes, please do so in your head.

You play out your fantasies here. Many of us do.

Shouldn't TTL have the same right?

Actually no, I don't play out any fantasies here.

If you're referring to humor, I know that's not real, and I don't make it out to be real.

ok, tth/t2l can play out her fantasies, but that doesn't mean others can't call her on it.

The horror (hits self on back with cat o' 9 tails), the terror (hits self again), we'll never forget you (one more hit) for the rest of our lives we will mourn (crack, crack, crack)

No, there's no exact date where someone's grief or rememberances must be stopped. But 10 years after the fact, experiencing the same emotions, indicates a need for reevaluation of one's mental health.

If you're in the same place after that amount of days gone by, there's an awful lot of life been wasted.

That's a shame.

1 Reply

@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

Actually no, I don't play out any fantasies here.

actually, I think you do. And people have called you out on it - and you have objected to it. Sturgis has pointed one example out to you ^^^.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

But, more importantly, you failed to address the fact that there are many US terrorists/war criminals who daily fly around the globe.

You may consider then war criminals but the governments of the world obviously dont. Winners write history and etc. So why are you so surprised that they can fly around in airplanes?

JPB wrote:

Chai,TTH started this thread to remember the day and the dead. From her other threads it's reasonable to assume that she does indeed think they can hear her. Why should she not talk about the very thing she started the thread to discuus?

If the dead can hear us, I sure hope they have something better to do. Seriously, if we move on, why cant the dead? =)

trying2learn wrote:

To those innocent people who were murdered on that day, we are not afraid. We, the people, took a stance and fought back. You did not die in vein. I, as well as many others, are not scared of the terrorists. We will fight you and you will not win.

Im afraid this "fight" is already lost. It was lost then America decided that "fighting back against terrorists" meant "slaughtering thousands of unrelated people".

1 Reply

The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

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