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The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

 
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 03:07 am
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:

I'm not saying it's okay. I'm saying Americans act like they are the only ones who it has ever happened to. This is because they are ignorant of what is really going on in the world today and in history.


I believe you are mistaken in both statements. While I don't have the numbers of those murdered in Rwanda, the number was huge and that's not even counting the ones mutilated and crippled for life. Same for Sierra Leone, and Iraq. If the remaining people of Rwanda want a memorial to that part of their past and remind the world of what the survivors are going through today (people had feet and even hands chopped off for being born into the wrong tribe), I say they are welcome to it. I have not an ill thought or word to express against it. I am not going to tell them to set it all aside and remember the Holocaust, and that they are being very self centered if they don't.

So I'm not the Citizen of the World you think we should all be. So what? I'm most concerned about what happens to family, friends, and acquaintences. Beyond that, my grief and compassion extend first to other Americans. The rest of the world comes farther down the line.

I'm sorry you're tired of hearing of three thousand people killed, and thousands of others with injuries and disabilities from which they may never recover. You might consider my feelings toward some hypothetical memorial service in Rwanda. If they want it, let them have it and don't try to diminish any expression of grief or regret they may chose to express.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 07:01 am
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:

I'm not saying it's okay. I'm saying Americans act like they are the only ones who it has ever happened to. This is because they are ignorant of what is really going on in the world today and in history. T2T is giving you the perfect example by saying things like "what if this happened in..." I find statements like that typical of American ignorance and yes, stupidity. The worst thing about 9/11 is not that so many innocent people died but that Americans caved in and let fear master them. In the process we have lost many of our rights as individuals to move about freely. The so called Patriot Act is a piece of manipulative **** Stalin would be proud of and Americans go along with it because we are afraid of the big bad Muslims. Our government uses our prejudices and ignorance as an excuse to spend trillions of dollars to try and destroy people who can kill us with our own airplanes and blow up our military with a few wires, fertilizer and cell phones. In the meantime, corporations get the freedom to destroy us more slowly with their careless policies and greed. They even get tax breaks to help them do it more efficiently. ... I mourn 9/11 because it has turned this country into a whining pile of scared mice who rolled over and let their government cow them through their fears and selfishness.


Totally agree!
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 07:05 am
@Mame,
So do I.
0 Replies
 
manored
 
  5  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 07:48 am
@roger,
roger wrote:

So I'm not the Citizen of the World you think we should all be. So what? I'm most concerned about what happens to family, friends, and acquaintences. Beyond that, my grief and compassion extend first to other Americans. The rest of the world comes farther down the line.
Thats fine, I would say. But do keep in mind that much of the tragedy in the rest of the world was caused by americans, such as, say, the Iraq war. That makes the whole mourning over 11/2001 feel kinda hypocritical, you know. America mourns its dead after causing the terrorists attacks itself by slaughtering and intruding in other countries, and then it proceeds to slaughter and intrude in other countries some more.

Green Witch wrote:

I agree with Mame. I'm glad I'm not any younger because humanity is going backwards.
I wouldnt say we are going backyards, but we are speeding towards a crisis, a climatic moment. I just hope we wont be too destroyed then we get to the other side.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 08:02 am
that was my thinking too.

yes, i absolutely understand that innocent people were killed. The sad part is that even in our schools, we are killing each other. Not to diminish.. but by now america , the bully on the playground, has been responsible for millions of innocent deaths around the planet.

we are not untouchable simply because as a country we are one of the wealthier on the planet. Some seem to think so though. And roger is right, that does NOT constitute every american , but it does describe enough of them to equal ' patriot acts' and other crap like that.

When enough of the herd walks around with its face in the air, the rest suffer.
0 Replies
 
trying2learn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 10:29 am
Remembering September 11, 2001. World Trade Center 9/11 Memorial

StinkyPete
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 02:56 pm
Damn





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I ******* miss Amy Winehouse.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 02:59 pm
@trying2learn,
I'm trying hard to remember that this started as just a little memorial thread.
manored
 
  5  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 04:11 pm
@roger,
Its a thread... its meant to be a discussion or conversation, not to remain static. A thread to which nobody adds is forgotten very quickly.
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 04:49 pm
@manored,
I have started lots of threads like that...short and sweet. Of course they are pretty darn vanilla - so that doesn't help.

I hate drama. I just won't answer if it pisses me off. Wink ......usually.

Think the world is full of sad people, doing horrid things...but it's also full of sweet people doing wonderful things. I just have to try hard not to be one of the many **** heads that make it a scary place to walk barefooted. But even that happens every once in a while.

9/11 was the first time in my life I understood what it meant to feel unsafe. I can't imagine having a loved one that got killed - nightmare. Now unsafe seems to be the norm. I consider myself pretty fortunate to have gone that long in that protective bubble.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 04:53 pm
@roger,
Quote:
I'm trying hard to remember that this started as just a little memorial thread.


I think you're trying hard to forget, Roger.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  6  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 05:00 pm
@mismi,
Quote:
9/11 was the first time in my life I understood what it meant to feel unsafe. I can't imagine having a loved one that got killed - nightmare. Now unsafe seems to be the norm.


Mismi, unsafe is nowhere near the norm in western countries.

We don't have land mines strewn all over the place, depleted uranium in our kids' playgrounds, troops smashing their way into our homes at night, taking away our loved ones, many never to be seen again.

We don't have to watch our children die because medicines and simple vaccines have been withheld thru embargoes. We don't have 30 or 40 years of this to contend with. None of us have to live in refugee camps because our homes were destroyed by bombs. None of us have to raise deformed children because chemical weapons were spread over our lands.
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 05:15 pm
@JTT,
You are so right. We are certainly blessed. That might have just been my first eye opening experience ...there are many things that I consider unsafe that don't have to do with landmines and such though. That is an utter nightmare. But there is no doubt my "unsafe" is pie in the sky compared to what you are talking about.
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 07:21 pm
I love how Fox is hyping their "emotional 10 year anniversary 9/11 tribute during opening weekend in the NFL. Good to know 9/11 is officially a marketing tool for the NFL as opposed to how patriotism was always unofficially owned by the NFL
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 11:01 pm
@Green Witch,
I can't think of another country where 3000 people were killed in a single terrorist act. Sure other countries have had attacks, but nothing this large and wide spread. We know who attacked us, and yet we insist that we check everyone going on a plane, so if you are upset about getting your "junk" felt up then blame yourself.

We could be doing targeted inspections on people getting on airplanes but that is "wrong", instead we have to be searched because those currently in power don't have the balls to call it as it is. We were attacked by Muslim radicals (9/11,shoe and underware bombers) but instead we are having grandmas and our children searched for bombs. The left has thrown common sense out the window when it comes to national defense. When attacked by bears you don't go out and kill the lions.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2011 11:03 pm
@Baldimo,
so....

we should only be searching muslim looking grandmas?
Baldimo
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 01:10 am
@Rockhead,
We should be searching with reason in response to 9/11 and other such attempted bombings on planes. I can tell you that I have been pulled aside for secondary inspections when traveling in uniform under military orders. Does that make any sense? We should be profiling based on past history when it comes to airlines and airport security.

Don't worry I feel the same way about purchases of fertilizer by white people, we have had a couple of them blow **** up.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  4  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 09:22 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
I can't think of another country where 3000 people were killed in a single terrorist act.


You've never heard of Vietnam, Japan, Laos, Cambodia, .... But what's the big deal about one instance. Have you ever heard of the US losing millions as in SE Asia, 40 to 50 thousand in Nicaragua, the list goes on and on and they were all terrorist actions, war crimes.

You could be doing much better than reacting as you do in typical knee jerk fashion to every little action but that isn't what the authorities want. They don't want a system that works.

They want the one that has allowed them to exploit the child like fears of adult Americans. That is so effective that it allowed two illegal invasions of two sovereign nations, again, war crimes, all because these childish tendencies were so easily exploited.
0 Replies
 
manored
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 11:43 am
@mismi,
mismi wrote:

9/11 was the first time in my life I understood what it meant to feel unsafe. I can't imagine having a loved one that got killed - nightmare. Now unsafe seems to be the norm. I consider myself pretty fortunate to have gone that long in that protective bubble.
Dont let it get to you, I would say. Even with thousands of deaths, it was still a very very minimal part of the american population than died or had relatives killed in the attack, it can hardly be said that the attack means americans are less safe. That kind of thinking is exactly what the authors of the attack wanted... terrorism works by creating irrational fear in the target population, by giving the impression of that the terrorists have a lot of killing power even though they actually are very weak and small organizations.

It kinda pisses me how the americans feel for it like ducks...

Baldimo wrote:

We could be doing targeted inspections on people getting on airplanes but that is "wrong", instead we have to be searched because those currently in power don't have the balls to call it as it is. We were attacked by Muslim radicals (9/11,shoe and underware bombers) but instead we are having grandmas and our children searched for bombs. The left has thrown common sense out the window when it comes to national defense. When attacked by bears you don't go out and kill the lions.
The fact that the attackers were muslim radicals doesnt means that the people they will send to do their stuff will always be obviously from the same nation, ethnicity and religion. They know very well people inside this "scope" will be searched and denied more so they try to hire/recruit people outside of it. That said, I do think that airplane searches are kinda excessive.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 11:44 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
We could be doing targeted inspections on people getting on airplanes but that is "wrong",


This illustrates a very real problem in doing "targeted inspections".

The real odd thing is that there are likely thousands of Americans/Canadians/Australians/Brits/... terrorists/war criminals that get onto planes everyday without any checks at all.

Hell, CIA operatives, clearly terrorists, fly about the planet all the time.

Quote:

Innocent traveller stuck on airline watch list

Canadian stopped before every flight despite RCMP, Nexus clearances

By Kathy Tomlinson CBC News

A Saskatoon man is fed up with being stopped every time he tries to fly within Canada — mistakenly flagged as a security threat — because he has a similar name to someone on a no-fly list.

"I feel I am either a second- or third-class citizen," said Ahmad Ali, a Canadian citizen. "They are humiliating me…and not catching the right guy."

Ali is a programmer and analyst with the University of Saskatchewan who said he’s been delayed a dozen times boarding flights since 2008. He said the RCMP told him there is a name similar to his on a watch list.

"Your name is in there…and you don’t even know what these lists are," said Ali.

The RCMP gave him written clearance to show he has no criminal record, which he said no one with the airlines is interested in seeing. Transport Canada confirmed he is not on its official no-fly list, known as "Passenger Protect."

American authorities granted him a Nexus card to enter the U.S. and he said he has no trouble boarding flights with U.S. airlines.

Delays continue in Canada

However, when he flies within Canada — on Air Canada and WestJet — Ali said he is still forced to wait at the counter, humiliated, every time he checks in, as staff make phone calls to check him out. He said the airline systems will not allow him to check in online or at a kiosk.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/2011/09/05/bc-watchlistmistake.html


0 Replies
 
 

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