The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

@parados,

Quote:

Your "how much did the save" was answered a LONG time ago with a link the the exact numbers.

Then why are you so reluctant to state those figures, Paraliar?

@Green Witch,

The people who deserve a lot of admiration were the policemen and firemen who courageously went into the building to save others. Many of them did not come out again.
Here is a long video about something admirable that happened in Canada on that fatal day.
.
http://jaretmanuel.com/msnbc-gander-tom-brokaw-911-operation-yellow-ribbon-story

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@JTT,

So.. Are you saying enough steel wasn't saved for "the investigation"?

1 Reply

@parados,

I'm asking because you made a huge pretense of being knowledgeable on the issue. When push comes to shove, you show you didn't know your ass from a hole in the ground. You just mouthed some BS. Then you ran off to do some actual research.

What is it that is preventing the expert from answering a simple question?

How much steel was saved for the investigation?

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@Ticomaya,

Quote:

....it pissed me off to no end to see folks to post their corollary political views about events that have transpired since then, in this thread, and on that day. And it seems that many non-Americans have chosen to post here their caterwauling about post-9/11 events, their despair about the War on Terror. You must know that would inflame some people. Like most Americans, 9/11 still strikes a raw nerve, for me, 10 years later. I remember vividly 20 years ago nearly coming to blows with an English man in a pub in London who was talking ill of the US with regard to the recent events in Iraq, and denigrating the first President Bush. I love my country, and I do not like those who do not.

Tico, you seriously questioned the rights of some Englishman, in his own country & probably at his own local pub, to have a view on such things?
And you almost got involved in a punch-up with him because his views were different to yours?
You don't think that was taking your love of your country & your patriotism a wee bit far? Wink

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@JTT,

No, I don't have to worry about my husband being taken, killed or tortured. I don't have to worry about that happening to me either. I don't have to because I choose not to because if I did worry constantly, I couldn't live my life.

I hope that the victims and families find some peace knowing that there are so many people that cared and still care about them, even though it has been 10 years.

1 Reply

@msolga,

People like Tico already think this is the 51st State.

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@izzythepush,

but .... I thought that was Australia! Wink

1 Reply

@msolga,

I think we're already singing from the same songbook. If anyone comes over here to pick a fight with one of our citizens they should be deported and their passport stamped accordingly. Some Americans wax lyrical about their freedom of speech, but don't seem so happy when other countries practice it.

Australians don't pick fights, they start drinking contests, and they usually win. They do when they're up against me in any event.

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@izzythepush,

With all due respects, chuck, that is a grossly distorted & totally unacceptable stereotypical view of Australians. Evil or Very Mad

But seriously though, if anyone from another country turned up at at some Australian pub & behaved like that ... well, let me put it this way ... they would get pretty short shrift! The arrogance!

Who needs someone from some other country telling you what you should be thinking?

1 Reply

@msolga,

I have lost a few drinking challenges to Aussies in the past. You're quite right, we're both sovereign nations, and we should be able to say what we want without being assaulted by some criminal yob.

There's a fine line between patriotism and nazi thuggery, and if you start using your fists because you can't win any other way, you have crossed that line. I would never walk into a bar in America, or a pub in Australia intent on causing trouble. (Or anywhere else for that matter. If I don't like the clientelle I drink up and go somewhere else.)

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

Ticomaya wrote:

And it pissed me off to no end to see folks to post their corollary political views about events that have transpired since then, in this thread, and on that day. And it seems that many non-Americans have chosen to post here their caterwauling about post-9/11 events, their despair about the War on Terror.

On the theme of pissing people off, it pisses me off that conservative Americans in this thread are turning this into an American-vs-foreigner thing. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least ten American A2K members in good standing who agree with Ms.Olga and disagree with them.

And since you guys are trying to pull rank on her, let me reciprocate by pulling rank right back on you. I'm probably the only A2K member who knows both perspectives, having immigrated to the US from Germany. And while it is true that the move has changed a number of my opinions on American politics, it has not changed my opinions about 9/11. Not about the attack itself. Not about its abuse in rationalizing torture, abductions, and secret foreign prisons. Not about its abuse in manufacturing a fraudulent case for war in Iraq. Nothing. All these things are an ongoing part of 9/11's legacy. They are germane to a thread dedicated to "the horror of Sept.11th, 2001". I would find it disingenuous to cover them up behind a veneer of etiquette.

You, Georgeob1, and Finn are overplaying your hand with this 'Americans get it, foreigners don't' rhetoric.

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@Thomas,

Many A2Kers agree that the case for war in Iraq was fraudulent. At the same time, it is possible to disagree that strident criticism has any place on a thread intended to respect the victims of 9/11.

1 Reply

@Ticomaya,

Quote:

I remember vividly 20 years ago nearly coming to blows with an English man in a pub in London who was talking ill of the US with regard to the recent events in Iraq, and denigrating the first President Bush. I love my country, and I do not like those who do not.

So it's impossible to say that a country did something wrong without being classed as hating that country? So if I said slavery was a bad thing I'm clearly denigrating a glorious part of US history? So if I merely 'like' the US, or some of it citizenry I'm not up to scratch because I'm not loving it? And I can expect fisticuffs from you? You're an odd boy Tico. And if you can take a step back I'll think you'll agree.

I'm a fiercely proud Australian - and for precisely that reason I despair of lots of our past and a fair bit of our present. But clearly you have no such issues. Cost you much to get your brain cauterised?

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

This thread is about "the horror of Sept.11th, 2011". To me, the exploitation of 9/11---for fraud, torture, and warmongering---is part of 9/11's ongoing horror. And yes, I do mean ongoing horror. After all, the Obama administration is continuing many of the Bush administration's abuses, albeit on a cosmetically lower level. It is those abuses, not our reflections on them, that dishonor and disrespect the victims. And it doesn't take a foreigner, nor lack of patriotism, to point them out.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

I agree with all of that, Thomas. It hurts me to see the U.S. government make mistakes. However, I do not appreciate being constantly reminded of those mistakes. I know! I know already!

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@wandeljw,

Sadly JW you're not the only one using A2K.

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

It's one thing to make mistakes it's another thing to keep on making the same mistake. America has an opportunity to show that they're not just anti-Muslim, when the vote comes up in the UN about Palestinian statehood.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

Tico, you seriously questioned the rights of some Englishman, in his own country & probably at his own local pub, to have a view on such things?
And you almost got involved in a punch-up with him because his views were different to yours?

No, I didn't question his right to have a "view" on such things. But yes, I seriously questioned the right of that drunken Englishman to speak badly about my country and my President, in my presence and in front of his drunken mates cheering him on, without a reaction. The "bloke" in question was not sitting quietly at the bar, calmly speaking his mind about his views -- no, he was in my face, loudly trying to goad me. The fight was picked by the Englishman.

Quote:

You don't think that was taking your love of your country & your patriotism a wee bit far?

No, but the fact that you do illustrates one of the many differences between you and me. I assure you, I'm as happy about those differences as you are. Wink

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

People like Tico already think this is the 51st State.

Um, no ... I don't.

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The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

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