The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

@Eorl,

No problem. I completely misunderstood the intent of the list you posted, and gave it a vote up - if it matters at all. Now that I've been corrected, and since it still doesn't matter, I won't go back and change it.

Actually, it's quite noble that ever nationality on your list hurts you as much as if they had been family, friends, neighbors, and countrymen.

0 Replies

@manored,

manored wrote:

To be honest, im sick and tired of how much importance has been given to this event in the last 10 years. the USA then went on to wage and unjustified war where a much, much greater number of civilians were killed. Not to mention the hundreds or thousands that die every day out of poverty or civil war in weaker countries.

Hear hear! It's exploitation of tragedy and nationalism and I just avoid the media when they turn the jingoism up to 11 like this. But the insular worldview of most Americans makes this a tough sell to them, there is no national conscience beyond American borders and they don't care all that much that their country has killed orders of magnitude more people as a response and it's this very habit America has of killing people around the world and supporting subjugation of other peoples (this Arab Spring bandwagon we are jumping on is not going to erase the decades of support for tyrants like these that America was A-OK with) that motivate people to attack America. To even suggest that this habit of stomping around the globe killing other people might be the source of many of the security problems America faces is often received by vehement anger, as if these deaths justify their refusal to care about the many more innocent deaths that they are subsidizing and to confront an American with the blood on America's hands is treason.

Many Americans respond with anger at any attempt to say that if we do not wish to have others come to America and kill Americans we should do our level best to avoid going around to other countries and killing their people and immediately compare it to blaming the victim. This is a very self-serving narrative, and one that serves American militarism very well.

3 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Here is someone who expresses my sentiment very eloquently:

Quote:

On this 10th anniversary of 9/11, I still feel great sadness for those who perished and their families, anger toward the terrorist thugs who murdered them, and anger toward those in our government who have shamelessly exploited the victims’ memory for their own nefarious ends.

Considering this, the phrase “never forget” should apply to every aspect of remembering 9/11.

We should never forget the victims, first and foremost. Their tragic loss was one of America’s greatest losses and they can never be replaced. Our prayers should go out to their families, today and every day.

We should never forget that we will always have enemies in the world who want to harm us. Against any viable threat, we must always stand vigilant.

We should never forget those in our government who used the worst terrorist attack in our nation’s history as an excuse to launch completely unrelated wars, to do unprecedented damage to Americans’ historic liberties, to run roughshod over the Constitution, and to betray the Founders’ vision by savaging some of our most deeply held values.

The last decade has been a tragic one in countless ways. Few if any Americans would like to see it repeated.

On this 10th anniversary of 9/11 and every anniversary—never forget.

2 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

To be fair, I've noticed (on this thread & quite a few others recently) a definite change of attitude on the part of many American posters here....
Compared to some of the most torrid & really ugly exchanges during debates at the height of "the war on terror", it is very heartening to see.

I salute those of you who might not have commented at all in the past & now do ...& those of you who have made some (possibly quite painful) revaluations & have posted your thoughts here ... & those of you have come out on the side of humanity, as opposed to "my country right or wrong" patriotism.

Of course, there are still those die-hards who will never acknowledge that "the war on terror" has caused much more harm & suffering than good ... and will argue forever that the Iraq invasion was totally defensible ... or that anyone who disagrees with them must be some sort of left wing slug ... or even worse, an Australian! Wink

But thankfully, they are looking more & more like out of touch anachronisms.

0 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Amen to that If I believed in amen.

0 Replies

@wandeljw,

wandeljw wrote:

At least today should be reserved for remembrance of people who died from the September 11, 2001 attacks. It would be kind if people waited a few days before resuming criticism of the United States.

9/11 memorials are a perfectly good time to remind Americans about their actions that contribute to the global security problems and the reaction to 9/11 that added orders of magnitude more misery. The notion that kindness means not to criticize and the use of the tragedy as a emotional bludgeon to silence criticism of America's subsequent warmongering are things I disagree with very strongly.

Wrong is wrong, it doesn't take a day off and if you care about America then you should care about whether the criticism is valid, and not whether it's the right day to express it. Caring about America doesn't mean trying to silence criticism about America's wrongdoing.

3 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

This site, and the internet at large, gives America that rare and special gift Robert Burns so famously expounded... the gift to see yourselves as others see you. You expect they'd be more grateful!

Speaking of Burns...

"Ye Hypocrites, are these your pranks
To murder men and gie God thanks
Desist for shame, proceed no further
God won't accept your thanks for murder."
— Robert Burns

1 Reply

@Eorl,

Eorl wrote:

This site, and the internet at large, gives America that rare and special gift Robert Burns so famously expounded... the gift to see yourselves as others see you. You expect they'd be more grateful!

Speaking of Burns...

"Ye Hypocrites, are these your pranks
To murder men and gie God thanks
Desist for shame, proceed no further
God won't accept your thanks for murder."
— Robert Burns

Lol!!~!

Nobody never does like being shown how ithers see us.

1 Reply

@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Nobody never does like being shown how ithers see us.

Actually, I don't care.

I'm sure you consider that a character flaw.

2 Replies

@Ticomaya,

Nah.

I probably won't think about it that much.

0 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Hmmmm....I don't think there's much to be gained by being critical on the anniversary, if people are hurting. I don't think it's a huge deal, as Finn and a few others have made it out to be, but it seems to me that a bit of kindness comes at no expense.

Thing is, I think most of the people who objected because it was the anniversary object to anyone ever challenging the politics of the situation and get similarly agitated at any time and always use it as an emotional bludgeon. But there are a few people who don't think or act like that who seem to be quite upset and I, for one, had no issue with silence.

I'm like you personally speaking though. I lost a friend that day, and was deeply affected anyway, (clearly not remotely as affected as US people were, of course) but my country is just as implicated in the post-strike appalling behaviour, and I have no problems with people pointing out the appallingness when I am remembering a friend's death.

He'd be the first to roll over in his non-grave (had he not been atomized...he was on the roof of the first tower to be struck when he made his last phone call) that his death was used in such an immoral way.

2 Replies

@Ticomaya,

Quote:

I'm sure you consider that a character flaw.

Set upon the palette of Tico's character flaws it pales into insignificance.

0 Replies

@manored,

manored wrote:

Eorl wrote:

I think patriotism, nationalism and religion are various forms of bigotry that sit at the very heart of all of this.

Heartly agreed!

me too

0 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Brilliantly put, Robert. I agree with everything you said here.

0 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

I'd say that Jack Hunter's offering is much too pablumized, with huge doses of sugar added to help the medicine go down.

"We should never forget those in our government who used the worst terrorist attack in our nation’s history as an excuse to launch completely unrelated wars, to do unprecedented damage to Americans’ historic liberties, to run roughshod over the Constitution, and to betray the Founders’ vision by savaging some of our most deeply held values",

Again, it's all about America, as if these terrible horrors, the enormous pain, suffering and death that have been inflicted upon the huge numbers of Iraqis and Afghans [that the US has little interest in counting], have been heaped upon a poor suffering USA.

I think you have expressed it far more eloquently, Robert. There is a great deal of eloquence in stark truths.

0 Replies

@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Hmmmm....I don't think there's much to be gained by being critical on the anniversary, if people are hurting.

See, the part I disagree with very strongly is the notion that pointing out that someone's country has a problem with warmongering is unkind at all. I am disputing the notion that this kind of constructive criticism is unkind.

And every day is an anniversary of deaths that America caused in reacting to 9/11, there's plenty of pain to go around and America can't pretend like it has a monopoly on it and keep exploiting the memory of 9/11 politically. It's not like this doesn't bring pain to the people who suffered much more from America's reactions to 9/11 than Americans ever did from the event itself.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

dlowan wrote:
Hmmmm....I don't think there's much to be gained by being critical on the anniversary, if people are hurting.

See, the part I disagree with very strongly is the notion that pointing out that someone's country has a problem with warmongering is unkind at all. I am disputing the notion that this kind of constructive criticism is unkind.

And every day is an anniversary of deaths that America caused in reacting to 9/11, there's plenty of pain to go around and America can't pretend like it has a monopoly on it and keep exploiting the memory of 9/11 politically. It's not like this doesn't bring pain to the people who suffered much more from America's reactions to 9/11 than Americans ever did from the event itself.

What about simply out of respect for the thread author's intent? This single thread (not the entire forum) and for only one day (the actual anniversary)?

2 Replies

@wandeljw,

Quote:

What about simply out of respect for the thread author's intent?

Ignorance must be addressed at its source, JW,

trying2learn: I wouldn't want anyone in any country to experience what happened.

or that same ignorance spreads like wildfire. You only have to look at the response from the vast majority of Americans to realize that.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Here is the full context of my question:

wandeljw wrote:

What about simply out of respect for the thread author's intent? This single thread (not the entire forum) and for only one day (the actual anniversary)?

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

Here is the full context of my reply wherein I addressed your question:

Ignorance must be addressed at its source, JW,

trying2learn: I wouldn't want anyone in any country to experience what happened.

or that same ignorance spreads like wildfire. You only have to look at the response from the vast majority of Americans to realize that.

=======================

trying2learn's ignorance/propaganda doesn't warrant special consideration. In fact, subsequent posts revealed just how ignorant that poster was. Finn and Tico too. Now you.

You have to consider the size and the damaging effects of this propaganda juggernaut.

1 Reply

The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know