23
   

Kiss My Ass Irene

 
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 11:51 am
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 01:18 pm
A new Gothamist poll is showing my view to be the minority one

Did Mayor Bloomberg Over Prepare For Hurricane Irene?

Nope. A good defense is the best offense. 71.09% (273 votes)

I'm not really sure. 5.21% (20 votes)

Yes. He whipped the city into a frenzy out of blizzard guilt. 23.7% (91 votes)


http://gothamist.com/2011/08/29/bloomberg_fearmonger_or_fastidious.php
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 01:32 pm
Ill bet that ammortization and replacement timelines for buried wires and cables is a lot longer than for power poles.
It took Asplundh almost a year to install some new taller poles on the main road a few miles from us. These poles were in a sequence that went from LAncaster Twp to below STrasburg. It was about 10 miles long and apparently had an entire daisy chain of subcontractors do work. ASplundh only was the gen contractor and the tree management firm.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 01:38 pm
@Setanta,
I think if there's open space it's not a big deal -- I can't imagine how it'd work in my neighborhood though (old, established, lots of big trees, etc.)

Doable, but complicated.

I think I'll pursue it a bit though and see what happens.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 02:00 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Are you familiar with the newer German windows that are in use in the ultra low energy use houses? Do they just have beefed up hinges that make them more airtight?

The frames and the hinges are the same as those of regular windows. The difference is in the glass: They have three panes rather than two, and they are coated so that sunlight can come in, but heat radiation from the inside cannot get out.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 02:09 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:
I think if there's open space it's not a big deal -- I can't imagine how it'd work in my neighborhood though (old, established, lots of big trees, etc.)

They'd put it underneath the road. There's your "open" space for you.

sozobe wrote:
Doable, but complicated.

Mostly, very loud, because of the digging-up-the road part. You're the ideal person to push the project!
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 02:13 pm
@Thomas,
Our neighborhood isn't nice and griddy though, and powerlines cut through swaths where there is no road. But you're right, I bet that would be a relatively small percentage of the whole job.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 03:08 pm
Meanwhile, re: the debate about how preparedness for Irene was handled, just saw this and it seems about right to me:

Quote:
The bottom line is we have a lot better idea where a hurricane is going to hit than we do how strong it will be when it gets there. That uncertainty creates risk. How do you prudently address that risk? It's really simple. You have to be more aggressive in your disaster preparation. That means getting people out early, while the getting is still good. It means closing flood gates, securing property, shutting down mass transit systems, and prepositioning first responders and relief efforts.


Also:

Quote:
Irene right now ranks as the 10th-deadliest storm since 1980, with some possibility of that number going higher. And it ranks as the 8th most destructive storm economically, give or take. Meanwhile, it received about the 10th-most media coverage.


Both quotes, with cites, from here:

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/08/the-politics-of-disaster-ctd.html
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 03:14 pm
@sozobe,
Another poll, which is in line with the two Gathomist polls

Quote:
Did NYC overreact to the threat of a hurricane?

Yes. The storm only affected only Zone A, and there was no reason to shut down the entire city for two days. (23%, 56 Votes)

No. Even though Irene weakened, the tropical storm was the most powerful weather front to hit here in more than 25 years. With potential disasters, it's better to be safe than sorry. (77%, 182 Votes)
Total Voters: 240


Read more: http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/blogs/polls/2011/08/did-the-city-overreact-to-irene/#ixzz1WSFnwPDq


My view is the minority, but is significantly supported.
sozobe
 
  5  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 03:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
You seem to persistently be missing the point, though.

Hindsight is 20/20. The question is not "What should they have done if they knew then exactly what we know now," but "What should they have done with the information they had at the time?"
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 03:27 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

You seem to persistently be missing the point, though.

Hindsight is 20/20. The question is not "What should they have done if they knew then exactly what we know now," but "What should they have done with the information they had at the time?"
I assume that those who answer the poll as I do are saying that given the information Bloomberg had before the storm hit he should not have done what he did....If hindsight is factored onto the poll then 100% should say that he was wrong, because the fact is that most of what he did to close down the city was of no help, because it was not a needed move, as this storm was not bad enough to warrant the moves. For instance the tubes were closed 12 hours before the eye hit so that they could be sealed against the water that was expected to try to flood the tubes, but given that the rain and the storm surge totals were not high enough to flood the tubes the effort was a 100% waste of time, and the subways never needed to be closed. When I answer the question I assume the prediction of 6-8 inches of rain, 70 mph winds and a 5 foot surge, not the 6.5 inch rain, 40 MPH gusts, and 3.5 foot surge that actually developed.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 04:13 pm
Most Hurricanes are not as predictable as Irene was, and can strengthen or change direction relatively suddenly.

The precautions take in light of Irene turned out to be excessive, but they were reasonable.

Bloomberg see himself as The Great Leader, and I can't stand the extent to which he is willing and eager to insert government in the lifes of citizens, but it was an almost no-win situation for him.

Either way he was going to have critics, but if this storm turned out to be Katrina Visits New York, he would have been tarred and feathered.

With hurricanes we can always rely on a few constants:

*The damage will never be as heavy or as light as predicted.
*The Media will hype the storm as the possible end of the world.
*Insurance rates will increase
*Innumberable pundits and columnists will drone on and on about how the storm is proof that we are helpless before the fury of Mother Nature.
*Geraldo Rivera will be standing in knee deep water telling his cameraman where to focus and likening the experience to his days embedded in military units in Iraq
*The contruction industry will get a boost
*Idiots will dies as a result of surfing during the storm
*A great many people will cheat their insurance companies and a great many more will be cheated by unscrupulous contractors
*Critics will line up after the storm has passed to accuse the official responses as too little or too much

Now we can look forward to a new constant:

The NY Times will raise the spectre of Global Warming

Quote:
"The scale of Hurricane Irene, which could cause more extensive damage along the Eastern Seaboard than any storm in decades, is reviving an old question: are hurricanes getting worse because of human-induced climate change?"


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/us/28climate.html?_r=2

Of course for the Times, this is a rhetorical question.

Nevermind that Isabell in 2003 was a Category 2 hurricane and Irene was a Category 1 storm (when this article was written) on it's way to petering out to a respectable but not catastrophic Tropical Storm by the time it hit NY.

The author's desire to link Monster Storms with Global Warming is almost palpable, but I give him credit for a degree of objectivity I've grown less accustomed to with the Times. His bias remains clear but his journalistic training seems to have held up.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 04:21 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Bloomberg see himself as The Great Leader, and I can't stand the extent to which he is willing and eager to insert government in the lifes of citizens, but it was an almost no-win situation for him
REALLY? The city has been around for a long time, there have been a lot of mayors and a lot of storms. No mayor has ever closed the transit system for a storm, nor evacuated people, and some of them faced storms that were certainly larger than Irene. I submit that the difference is that most of his forefathers were not so cavalier about harming the economic position of the city that they were willing to stop the city for a few days in the effort to "save just one life", as Bloomberg has admitted that he did....

This was a TROPICAL STORM for cripes sake....there was NO reason for Bloomberg to be keeping his panties in a twist by Friday night, he should have cancelled the plans that had been designed earlier in the week for facing a possible cat 3 hurricane.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 04:28 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
*Idiots will dies as a result of surfing during the storm


Isn't it ironic?
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 05:01 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The NY Times will raise the spectre of Global Warming


And Finnbar will bury his head in the sand.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 05:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
There haven't been a lot of NY mayors since Katrina.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 05:18 pm
@izzythepush,
Perhaps once you might find yourself capable of arguing points rather than tossing off.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 05:30 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Oh dear, you are feeling cross aren't you? I couldn't imagine anyone tossing off to any of your posts matey boy.

There's nothing to argue about regarding global warming. The only people who don't believe it are idiots, and evil old men in the pockets of the fossil fuel giants.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 05:32 pm
@izzythepush,
Anyway the last time I argued points with you, I kept having to explain things. It's hard work trying to fathom out just how pedestrian your mind, is at any given moment.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 05:32 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

There haven't been a lot of NY mayors since Katrina.
I am surprised that you are not arguing that what we witnessed is what happens when a largely liberal city faces some wind and rain, they go looking for government to save them from death. I see no other way to look at the polls which show 70%+ approval of the fear mongering and shutting down of the city for a TROPICAL STORM....

They were never in any danger of Katrina style flooding, as even the very inflated storm surge forecasts were with-in the ability of the defenses in place. The worst possible surge was listed at 7 feet at Battery, which can protect up to 8 feet...the claims circulating that there could be a 12 foot surge were the result of idiots who did not know how to read the charts. Let me remind you that the surge was 3.5 feet, and that the main projection was for a 5 feet surge...

This claim of "it could have been horrible so we could not take chances" is nonesense because no reputable forecaster was in the last 48 hours before the storm got to NYC claiming that this storm was going to be as bad for NYC as the Bloomberg storm defense assumed . Bloomberg ran a defense for an offense that he had ZERO chance of seeing. Back on the farm in Michigan where my momma's family comes from we call that
S. T. U. P.I. D.
 

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