How do you rebuild trust and respect?

I edited my last post. Please read the postscript, okay?

What you are feeling is perfectly normal for this kind of situation, by the way. It's called stress. :wink: Be very good to yourself.

Good ideas, Eva!

thanks you guys. Talk to ya'll in the morning. I am sure she will wake me if she had anything to drink. She will be more likely to tell me whats on her mind.
I can not get the changing her name back to her maiden name out of my head. That was just plain hurtful, with no other good that would come from it, so why say it other than beat me while I am down..
Again thanks for the help guys, I would have been going crazy without the help. Time to go talk to the big guy...

Hang in there Bud and sweet dreams.

Yes, hang in there!

Eva's comments are REALLY pertinent, I think. What she describes is very much the sense I have gotten from the information so far.

What I had in mind to advise before I saw the latest, dunno whether it still fits, is to state very strongly that you want to see a counselor together. She wants to work on herself now... too bad! If she is talking about going back to her maiden name and the rest of it, she better be willing to at least attempt to make the marriage work, first. That either she has given up on the marriage or she would like to try to fix it -- which is it?

If she says no, absolutely not, I think that will tell you some things. It also seems to me, while I don't know for sure, that it would help you in terms of divorce, custody battle, etc., especially if you can document it. Emails and such.

And if she says yes -- and it sounds like she's just equivocal enough that she might -- hopefully a neutral third party can help cut through of what appears to be some rather manipulative b.s. on her part, send things in a more productive direction.

Good luck!

BTW, seeing an attorney doesn't mean you're getting a divorce. It just means you're exploring your options. You may get what to you is good news. Or bad news. But it's better than not knowing.

Personally, not knowing is always the thing that stresses me out the most. I almost (almost!) don't care what I'm going to hear, long as I hear something. There's just some comfort in knowledge, because from there you can plan your actions.

Sorry I got off on the boat tangent there.

Anyway, do a little investigating. Nothing much. Just, how much does child care cost? Where is it located? Do you like the place(s) available? That sort of thing.

If you divorce, the split re the house is, like you said, going to be along equity lines. I'm not a divorce attorney, and it's been a while since I even practiced, so be sure to talk to someone who is still practicing. But make sure you have your questions all set (just write 'em down and bring the list with you) before going in for the first time. You can often get the initial consultation for free or a reduced rate. In any event, you're just testing the waters and learning your options, nothing more.

As I figured she came home drunk. Said they were out drinkinh tequila and she fell asleep a her friends house. I tehen asked how she got home, well I drove, now thats responsible. i could small the alchohl when she walked in the room she was trashed.
She asked me if I talked to the boys about things, but I don't want to talk to a drunk. I am mad right now. She told me I can go out with my friends tom. if I want. She just does not get it, and she is in Masters program for psycology.

What time did she get home? I don't buy the falling asleep at a friends house excuse Bud. In fact I was wondering last night how late she would be out since you suspect that she may be cheating. You're right, drinking and driving is a stupid thing to do and she should know better. From what I see as well, it seems like you need her permission to go out with your buddies. Talk to a lawyer ASAP Bud. It's time you get control over your own life before you become resentful.

Hey, fireman........your lady is wanting to become a shrink?

She might make a great nurse Ratchet for some Cookoo's Nest, hahaha!


I gotta ask you this straightout, fireman, OK? .....have you had any kinds of suicidal thoughts?

Unfortunately, I have known a lot of people who have gone into psychology in order to figure out their own problems. They never seem to realize that's what attracted them to the field, either. (sigh)

Jespah and I are on exactly the same track, firemanbud. That's what I meant to say...I didn't mean see an attorney to start legal action, just talk to one ASAP to find out your rights and get some questions answered like probable asset distribution, child custody and support if it comes to that.

And, if and when you do decide to separate, you and your wife owe it to the children to tell them about it together. As a family. That's the right way to do it.

Something for you to consider, Bud:
Psychologically speaking; the single biggest motivator is "the takeaway". If I want to sell a product; I first explain all the good stuff and then I take it away. Example: I don't want you to buy this house, if you don't feel you can afford it. Example 2: There are several people looking at this house right now and I'm sure it is going to be gone soon. It is precisely the fear of loss that motivates most sales.
Relationships on the most basic level are very similar. Don't we all want what we can't have? We typically stay with someone when we feel we were "lucky to find them". This is neither good nor bad, but simply human nature. Her constant pulling away may very well have resulted in your wanting to keep her all the more. At the same time; your overly docile changes may be boring her to tears. Your actions are honorable, but may at the same time be reassuring her that she can behave in any fashion she wishes, with NO fear of ever losing what she has in you. She may not appreciate it; until she sees that you have the self-respect to know you deserve better. I've met beautiful women in my life that seemed perfect in every way, but my heart just never went out to them. Love is not a choice. Sometimes if things are too easy love just doesn't occur. It is possible that if you start the separation proceedings; she will realize that her actions are going to result in her losing you. Maybe she doesn't even realize how much she loves you because she's never been faced with the prospect of you leaving her. Haven't you, at some point in your life, become more interested in someone after she displayed a lack of interest in you? I believe we as humans love a challenge. There are storybook relationships where 2 people challenge themselves to be the best mate they can be. But that has to be a two way street or the "worshipped" party will become bored. Without some common ground you are accepting your place as a doormat and inadvertently encouraging her to continue treating you as one, until she is too bored even with that.
Only you can decide if this woman is worth keeping. As bizarre as it sounds; your best chance of keeping her may very well be to pull away (take away). Few houses are sold by a salesman who takes the filibuster approach and endlessly lists the attributes. The "sale" is usually made when he takes it away; and his prospective buyer takes it back. Remember: Love and attraction are not choices. They are feelings. You could be the perfect man and that would guarantee you nothing. There is wisdom in the adage "you don't know what you've got till it's gone". And "gone" doesn't have to be an absolute. I know one happily married couple who married, divorced and then remarried. They never appreciated what they had till it was gone; and now they do. I really don't think you can be happy without self-respect and people who have no self-respect will have a difficult time gaining the respect of others. I recommend you meet her on an even playing field and let the chips fall where they may. Nothing you have written so far is indicative of a man who will willingly be a doormat forever, so even a reprieve would be temporary and artificial. Find the lyrics to Billy Joel's "matter of trust". That man is a better poet than he ever was a singer.
One last thing: Your children are NOT automatically harmed by divorce. My parents argued constantly before they divorced when I was 6 years old. My mom went on to meet the man of her dreams, one of the best men I've ever known, and she spent the rest of her life with him. I have "2 dads" and feel like a better man for it. Not everybody gets a "step-monster". If my parents had stayed together for the children's sake; they would have done us a disservice. You owe it to yourself to make decisions that are good for you, as well as your children. Again Bud, I wish you the best of luck.

Well I have to say that I stayed busy all day, cleaning and pulling hedges and such. While I was working she told me she was considering staying home tonight, news to me she was going out again.
Well I avoided her all day, she kept comming up and trying to kiss me and I would go for her forehead. I am angry at the fact that her whole basis of my problem is lack of responsibility. She came in at 1:45 in the morning so drunk I could smell the tequila before she got in bed.
If she had been pulled over she would loose her job, or she could have killed someone. When she got in bed she told me I could go out with my friends today. She just does not get it. I have been asking for over a year for a night alone.
Well while she is getting ready I sat on the couch to let her do her thing. She walks out in silk underwear and bran and sits on my lap. Its been 3 or 4 months so my heart is pounding, but I acted like I did not want to touch her and she got up and went back in the room. Why tease me??? She asked me if I was depressed I said no, and then she asked what was wrong, I told here I did not want to start talking about as she is going out the door, I would talk to her tongiht.
I am going to let here know I am moving out. I am tired of being treated like this, I want to be happy and not have every move I make ridiculed ( spelling sucks).
I got up early and went to the gym, I have lost 40 pounds since thanksgiveng, working hard to get back in shape, but after that I went out looking for an apartment.
Funny store. About three months ago she asked me what I wanted for christmas, I told her "a weekend alone wherever", she said "can't I just buy you something",

Whew, that's a cold comment. These requests for a night alone and a weekend alone, you are meaning alone together with her, right?

Be sure to look at apartments that are big enough for you and the kids.

2br 2 bath townhouse $825month

Yes I wanted a weekend alone with her, no kids

Bud
I think you are doing the right thing for yourself and your children. At this point she's pushed you too far and you deserve to be happy.

Sounds like you're getting your ducks in a row. Good, that's good. I'm a huge fan of organized preparation.

And Eva, are we channeling each other?

Is there an empty room in the house. A room you could turn into a bedroom. Move out of your shared room and into another room before you decide to move out. Talk to a lawyer and your counsellor first.
I understand your anger, but for the love of god, don't be rash. Your wife has acted incredibly irresponsibly and selfishly. Don't reward her bad behavior with the retaliation.
I know firemen, I have several friends in the service. It's one big brotherhood. Ask your friends what they do about childcare. Daycare, nannies ect. There are many options, don't sell yourself short.

Fireman.....I am Sooooo totally proud of you for not giving in when she sat on your lap in her silky seduction outfit!!!!!

That woman is trying to drive you crazy.

"Come here.....go away"

"I hate you....I love you"

"I never want to have sex with you.......why don't you want me: are you depressed?"

What a flocking lunatic!

Eat a steak, every night, fireman, and a baked potato for loads of potassium. That way, you'll get your weight back up to a healthy level.

Fireman, what about putting your request for counseling in very strong terms?

Organization is good, finding out what your options are is good. But you seem to be jumping to the end game, when I'm not sure if that is what you really want, based on your earlier posts here. Wouldn't you feel better if you had some honest, mediated, neutral-turf talks before taking any more drastic step?

What I worry about is one of those situations where people start to play games instead of communicating... I think she is already there. Counseling can take the wind out of those sails, help you actually communicate what needs to be communicated.

What a flocking lunatic! Katya8 --

Definitely right to take the high road, with dignity. It is sad to see how quickly this thread has gone from hopes for reconciliation to this.

I think that FiremanBud might want to discuss with his counselor the possibilities of joint counseling... even if it is just to smooth the separation so that fewer of these crazy games are played.