Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2011 04:23 am
Well, my intention at the outset, despite a good deal of foolishness since then, was to attempt to get plausible explanations for the hateful response to women i had seen in another thread. I choose to frame it as the hatred or fear of women just to attempt to make the discussion managable. (Managable in the sense of people having a reasonable basis for discussion--my intent is not to attempt to manage what people will say.)
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2011 06:50 am
Tangential, but possibly related thought: What common things may exist between a fear/hatred of women and homosexuals?

When I think about it like this, I wonder if it's not even about women as much as anything that potentially challenges the status quo on the social power structure (mostly uncontested until the last century), and women just happen to be one group gaining and so they experience said fear/hatred.

A
R
Thoughts?
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2011 09:46 am
@failures art,
In his post #4644906, Engineer addressed the issue of threats to white male dominance.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2011 10:00 am
@wayne,
Men and women as a whole do not have a 100 percents overlap in how they think or react and knowing that is not sexism in any way or in any manner.

Second, there is good reasons to think that this is at least as biological driven as culturely driven.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2011 01:27 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
When I think about it like this, I wonder if it's not even about women as much as anything that potentially challenges the status quo on the social power structure (mostly uncontested until the last century), and women just happen to be one group gaining and so they experience said fear/hatred.
that does not match up with my experience, as every man that I have met ( and there have not been many) who either feared or hated women has had a long tale to tell of how he has been mistreated by particular women.... it has been his own suffering at the hands of women that has caused his hostility to women, not general changes in the power structure of society.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2011 07:15 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
What sin are you babbling about? I scolded Foofie for employing genetics improperly. I at best employed geography loosely. You're too eager...


I'm not the one rendered frantic.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2011 07:18 pm
@Thomas,
I suspect that in the case of our mutual friend it was wasted.
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2017 10:09 am
Well there you go Set. That explains everything. Very Happy
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2017 10:35 am
@panzade,
I thought for a few seconds he was joking. Jeez.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2017 04:01 pm
I see parallels with anti-Semitism; a fear that women might be, on the average, smarter than men. They are often better students (so are Jews); they would like to settle things without violence (so would many Jews). They value civil speech (so do many Jews). And, as we see on this forum, reflecting anti-Israel rhetoric, there is an antagonism to Jews not being under the hegemony of Gentiles (and perhaps similar feelings towards "liberated" autonomous/self-sufficient women).

There is also a parallel, in my opinion to patriarchal cultures and misogony and anti-Semitism. It's as though being a male in those cultures gives some sort of birthright to being dominant to those that are perceived as weaker.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2017 05:06 pm
@BORG CONTROL,
BORG CONTROL wrote:


Women are alien creatures, and they are not like Men.


You know the well known saying
"Anyone can be a bastard, but only a woman can be a bitch".




I have never heard that saying. Anyone else?

Maybe men are the alient creatures, and they are not like Women.
TomTomBinks
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2017 12:24 am
@chai2,
I've never heard that one either. Borg has got some serious problems.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2017 07:16 am
@edgarblythe,
People like that can't joke.
0 Replies
 
Iouman
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 16 Feb, 2017 01:25 pm
@Setanta,
Why not? It's all Eve's fault we were kicked out of the Garden of Evil. That's what happens when women talk to snakes. lol
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Feb, 2017 03:51 am
I have noticed an interesting (but saddening) phenomenon amongst men who are not in one of two categories:
- those that have high self esteem / know who they are / have self worth
- those that value self esteem (rather than just paying lip service to it) & work towards the above


In the other categories (loosely termed men with average to low self esteem), I have noticed that these men almost universally partner up with women of equal or lesser self esteem; or

... if they do partner up with a woman with higher self esteem, they, apparently subconsciously, work towards lowering that woman's self esteem until it is lower than theirs.

I can't actually think of an example I personally know of, where this has not been true (though human nature throws out exceptions to any rule). It seems so common that I'm pretty sure genetics plays a part.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Feb, 2017 04:13 am
@vikorr,
Wouldn't you say the same thing about women?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Feb, 2017 04:33 am
@maxdancona,
Hmmm...no...which is one of the reasons why genetics appears to be involved.

(that is not to say that many women don't try to tear down men's self-esteem, which is something I've witnessed any number of times...but that there are also many times where I've seen women choose men with higher self esteem, and them desiring that)

Many women choose men with higher self esteem - or what they perceive to be higher self esteem. Confidence - or the appearance of confidence is usually attractive to them.

If I had to relate it to genetics, I'd say in caveman days, the man who was a go-getter, who believed he could accomplish anything, was much more likely to provide for his family that the one that wasn't that way inclined.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 21 Feb, 2017 10:19 am
@vikorr,
I disagree with you. It is a matter of social expectation and gender roles. I don't think it is genetic. My hope is that in 21st centural society we will decide to treat men and women as individuals, equally, in all areas. Sometimes it seems like we are going in the wrong direction; strengthening some gender stereotypes even as we challenge others.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Feb, 2017 02:36 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
It is a matter of social expectation and gender roles
Surely you aren't saying: It is a matter of social expectation that men with low to average self esteem only partner up with women who are equal or lesser self esteem...and if they partner up with a woman with higher self esteem, they go about working to lower her self esteem, until her self esteem is lower than theirs?

Because that is a shortened version of what I said. If so, forgive me, but we must disagree greatly.

In relation to whether or not such is genetic:

Quote:
My hope is that in 21st centural society we will decide to treat men and women as individuals, equally, in all areas

- This is a hope, rather than anything based in observation of behaviours as differs between genders, or what each gender finds attractive in a partner (and surely you aren't suggesting that these things are the same for each gender)

- your lack of acknowledgement regarding the differences between the genders, and your phrasing of them as homogeneous (individuals without gender, with no statement to gender differences), makes it sound like your objection to it being genetically based, is based in your desire to overcome genetics.

- When you say you want to society to treat each gender as equals...what do you mean by that? You want 50/50 in everything? You want that if person A is a woman, that she be allowed to do any job she likes, regardless of skill? (I ask only the womans perspective, because, unequally, this scenario is never asked of men)....or do you mean by 'equally' they people be treated based on their aptitude, traits, and personality?

To me, what you are talking about sounds more like respect, than 'equality' (which is 50 / 50). Respect is something that I am all for - If you respect a persons individuality, then you make decisions to treat them based on their individual traits, rather than on their gender.
 

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