THE HATRED OR FEAR OF WOMEN

Well, my intention at the outset, despite a good deal of foolishness since then, was to attempt to get plausible explanations for the hateful response to women i had seen in another thread. I choose to frame it as the hatred or fear of women just to attempt to make the discussion managable. (Managable in the sense of people having a reasonable basis for discussion--my intent is not to attempt to manage what people will say.)

Tangential, but possibly related thought: What common things may exist between a fear/hatred of women and homosexuals?

When I think about it like this, I wonder if it's not even about women as much as anything that potentially challenges the status quo on the social power structure (mostly uncontested until the last century), and women just happen to be one group gaining and so they experience said fear/hatred.

A
R
Thoughts?

In his post #4644906, Engineer addressed the issue of threats to white male dominance.

Men and women as a whole do not have a 100 percents overlap in how they think or react and knowing that is not sexism in any way or in any manner.

Second, there is good reasons to think that this is at least as biological driven as culturely driven.

that does not match up with my experience, as every man that I have met ( and there have not been many) who either feared or hated women has had a long tale to tell of how he has been mistreated by particular women.... it has been his own suffering at the hands of women that has caused his hostility to women, not general changes in the power structure of society.

I'm not the one rendered frantic.

I suspect that in the case of our mutual friend it was wasted.

Well there you go Set. That explains everything.

I thought for a few seconds he was joking. Jeez.

I see parallels with anti-Semitism; a fear that women might be, on the average, smarter than men. They are often better students (so are Jews); they would like to settle things without violence (so would many Jews). They value civil speech (so do many Jews). And, as we see on this forum, reflecting anti-Israel rhetoric, there is an antagonism to Jews not being under the hegemony of Gentiles (and perhaps similar feelings towards "liberated" autonomous/self-sufficient women).

There is also a parallel, in my opinion to patriarchal cultures and misogony and anti-Semitism. It's as though being a male in those cultures gives some sort of birthright to being dominant to those that are perceived as weaker.

I have never heard that saying. Anyone else?

Maybe men are the alient creatures, and they are not like Women.

I've never heard that one either. Borg has got some serious problems.

People like that can't joke.

Why not? It's all Eve's fault we were kicked out of the Garden of Evil. That's what happens when women talk to snakes. lol

I have noticed an interesting (but saddening) phenomenon amongst men who are not in one of two categories:
- those that have high self esteem / know who they are / have self worth
- those that value self esteem (rather than just paying lip service to it) & work towards the above


In the other categories (loosely termed men with average to low self esteem), I have noticed that these men almost universally partner up with women of equal or lesser self esteem; or

... if they do partner up with a woman with higher self esteem, they, apparently subconsciously, work towards lowering that woman's self esteem until it is lower than theirs.

I can't actually think of an example I personally know of, where this has not been true (though human nature throws out exceptions to any rule). It seems so common that I'm pretty sure genetics plays a part.

Wouldn't you say the same thing about women?

Hmmm...no...which is one of the reasons why genetics appears to be involved.

(that is not to say that many women don't try to tear down men's self-esteem, which is something I've witnessed any number of times...but that there are also many times where I've seen women choose men with higher self esteem, and them desiring that)

Many women choose men with higher self esteem - or what they perceive to be higher self esteem. Confidence - or the appearance of confidence is usually attractive to them.

If I had to relate it to genetics, I'd say in caveman days, the man who was a go-getter, who believed he could accomplish anything, was much more likely to provide for his family that the one that wasn't that way inclined.

I disagree with you. It is a matter of social expectation and gender roles. I don't think it is genetic. My hope is that in 21st centural society we will decide to treat men and women as individuals, equally, in all areas. Sometimes it seems like we are going in the wrong direction; strengthening some gender stereotypes even as we challenge others.

Surely you aren't saying: It is a matter of social expectation that men with low to average self esteem only partner up with women who are equal or lesser self esteem...and if they partner up with a woman with higher self esteem, they go about working to lower her self esteem, until her self esteem is lower than theirs?

Because that is a shortened version of what I said. If so, forgive me, but we must disagree greatly.

In relation to whether or not such is genetic:


- This is a hope, rather than anything based in observation of behaviours as differs between genders, or what each gender finds attractive in a partner (and surely you aren't suggesting that these things are the same for each gender)

- your lack of acknowledgement regarding the differences between the genders, and your phrasing of them as homogeneous (individuals without gender, with no statement to gender differences), makes it sound like your objection to it being genetically based, is based in your desire to overcome genetics.

- When you say you want to society to treat each gender as equals...what do you mean by that? You want 50/50 in everything? You want that if person A is a woman, that she be allowed to do any job she likes, regardless of skill? (I ask only the womans perspective, because, unequally, this scenario is never asked of men)....or do you mean by 'equally' they people be treated based on their aptitude, traits, and personality?

To me, what you are talking about sounds more like respect, than 'equality' (which is 50 / 50). Respect is something that I am all for - If you respect a persons individuality, then you make decisions to treat them based on their individual traits, rather than on their gender.