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what is promiscuous

 
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:23 am
No kidding...and I guess you know what kind of "friend" she'll be, too.

Better luck next time!
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beebo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:55 am
Story >
Alienation of Affections and Criminal Conversation Laws Upheld

Family Policy Facts - June 20, 2003
The North Carolina Court of Appeals has once again upheld two civil actions designed to protect marriages from third party interference and adultery—despite attempts by opponents of the laws to abolish them in the General Assembly. In a decision filed on June 17, the appeals court upheld a lower court jury verdict that a man who had a sexual relationship with another man’s wife and broke up the marriage was liable and accountable for his actions. The jury awarded the wronged husband a combined $1.41 million in compensatory and punitive damages under the state’s alienation of affections and criminal conversations laws. The appeals court upheld the $500,000 punitive damages award, but remanded the case back to the trial court for a new trial on the $910,000 compensatory damages award, because the appellate court felt that the basis for a portion of the compensatory damages (less that one-third of the total amount) was speculative and possibly excessive. A bill to abolish these civil actions, H1047—ABOLISH ALIENATION OF AFFECTIONS/CRIMINAL CONVERSATION, passed the State House on May 1 and has yet to see any action in the Senate.

In related news this week—in a classic case of legislating from the bench—the Missouri Supreme Court struck down its state’s alienation of affections law. This case was on appeal from a lower court, which had delivered a judgment of $75,000 against a woman who had an affair with another woman’s husband and broke up the marriage. In its decision, the Missouri Supreme Court opined that because this civil action finds its origin in the concept that a husband has property rights in his wife, that the law is outdated and no longer valid. The North Carolina Family Policy Council has been fighting similar arguments in the N.C. General Assembly for several years. Despite the regrettable view of the law toward women when these torts were developed, in current society men and women have equal standing under the law, and an equal number of men and women bring these actions—as is evidenced by the two cases mentioned above. These laws build a wall of protection around marriages. They also send a clear message that it is wrong to pursue a relationship with someone else’s husband or wife, and if you do, you can be held legally accountable for your actions.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 11:58 am
Smile
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eoe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 12:21 pm
I've had conversations with two married men who cheated on their wives as if it was a sport. Both told me the exact same thing, practically. Their fathers cheated on their mothers, their grandfathers cheated, they were brought up to believe that having a wife at home and girlfriends on the side is what being a man is all about. It stems, I'd guess, from the old accepted practice of polygamy, of having several wives, the more wives you have in direct connection to your personal wealth and prestige. It's for show. Makes them look manly and powerful, to their male friends, at least. I guess. Rolling Eyes
One of these guys I'd known for over twenty years and he was never, ever, loyal to a woman. Never. Not in high school, not in art school, not ever. Talk about promiscuous.? I'd say he was. Here's a situation...
The women in our little crew, which included this man, was so torn when he announced that he was actrually getting married. (that's when he told me about his lineage cause I asked him one day why in the hell was he getting married?) His womanizing was notorious and we, the women of our group, had three-way phone conversations going on, debating whether we should tell his fiancee about him or not. Watching this poor, seemingly unsuspecting sister walk down the aisle with this cad, who we loved, didn't feel right and we talked about it for awhile and decided not to say anything to her, fearing the big mess it would more than likely cause. I won't go into the full sordidness of that marriage but in the end, he humiliated this woman beyond belief, to the point of letting other women wear her clothes! It was like watching a trainwreck. For five years. Over and over again.
There was no way to warn her, was it? Or was it? Should we have? Anonymous letter? Anything?
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 12:33 pm
Smile
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eoe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 12:46 pm
Security for men is knowing someone is at home cooking their meals and washing their drawers.
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Eva
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 12:55 pm
And guaranteed sex, eoe. Don't forget that. Wink

Seriously, men want emotional support and companionship just as much as women. They may define it differently, though. And a lot of men are not aware of their own needs, so they don't have a clue how to fill them. This can be very obvious to a woman who knows them well.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 12:58 pm
Smile
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 01:00 pm
Smile
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beebo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 06:47 pm
I think there are a lot of married women doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 07:22 pm
beebo wrote:


Beebo
This law is absurd in my opinion and doesn't change the fact that no one can make a person cheat. The father of my son cheated on me when our son was little, so do you think I could sue the woman he cheated on me with even though we weren't married?
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 07:40 pm
Montana - a former colleague of mine has taken this to the next step. (I wondered about posting this, but since she's been in the media already - and a bit infamous for her ground-breaking child support for a child out of wedlock case ...)

Quote:
The high price of clandestine love

When does a mistress become a common-law spouse, and when does
a secret lover qualify for monthly support? ERIN ANDERSSEN reports

By ERIN ANDERSSEN

Saturday, November 2, 2002 - Page F2

Margo Sturgess gave her heart to William James Shaw, though he was not, in the truest sense, hers to have. They travelled together to Lake Placid and England. They made love at her home and in hotels and at his cottage. In her version of their secret affair, they cozied up in bed over the newspaper, and went for long drives in the country, and, in the peak of their two-decade romance, talked regularly by phone.

She is the mother of his child, a daughter, now 20 years old, born while he was on away on business. He paid child support -- up to $1,000 a month. Then things fell apart and so began the bickering over the boundaries, and price, of clandestine love.

She says this was a marriage, and wants financial support. "I chose to be a mother to my daughter and a partner to him."

Already married to Mrs. Shaw, Mr. Shaw says this was an on-and-off-again sexual relationship where nothing was promised. "I haven't done anything incorrectly. I came forward and paid my dues."

Now, they're headed to court, for a legal definition of the tryst, in a case that will pose the kind of question to set philandering souls quaking: When does a mistress become a common-law spouse, and when does a secret lover qualify for monthly support payments?

Old lovers are in a public pique these days, launching lawsuits when the romance sours -- as with the mistress of the prominent Texas oilman now suing for defamation -- or spilling secrets on paper -- as in the snippy Dr. John letters in Hell Hath No Fury,released this month.

But should she win her request for $5,000 in monthly spousal support payments -- last month a Ontario Superior Court judge gave her permission to appeal an earlier dismissal of her suit -- the case of Margo Sturgess could lay a powerful precedent in the hands of long-suffering mistresses everywhere.

This would mean, said Mr. Shaw's lawyer, Michael Miller, that cheating adults who produce a child from an affair could also acquire a second spouse. "How do you protect yourself? Do you say, 'I won't have an affair unless you sign this contract?' This is a relationship, with mutual benefits, not a paid-for service."

On the anxious-adulterer front, Ms. Sturgess's lawyer, Elliot Birnoim, is unsympathetic: "I'm not sure that would be such a bad thing, that they should get a little worried."

Mr. Shaw, a jeweller in Orillia, Ont., and Ms. Sturgess, a nurse in nearby Barrie, first met as teenagers at a house party and then rekindled their romance after sharing a coffee as adults. They called it quits in 2000 after two decades.

But Ms. Sturgess, who says she sacrificed jobs to raise their daughter and now has health problems herself, wants Mr. Shaw to help her out financially. He still lives with his wife of 29 years; they have two adult children.

The appeal will hinge on the definition of "cohabit." The lower court judge, who tossed out Ms. Sturgess's claim earlier, found she did not qualify as a "spouse." Provincial legislation says a couple who aren't married can be considered spouses if they have a child together and "cohabited in a relationship of some permanence."

But Mr. Justice Peter Howden decided the courts needed more guidance, especially in cases where a child is involved. Because of his ruling, Ms. Sturgess is expected to be heard at Ontario's Divisional Court next March.

The former lovers disagree in their affidavits about the nature of their affair, from how often they got together to how they shared the trappings of coupledom -- errands and housework and gift-giving. They don't see eye-to-eye on their commitment to the relationship, and who promised what.

The motions judge who first dismissed Ms. Sturgess's claim found that they cooked and spent some nights together, but did not present themselves in public as a couple or ever share a residence. These are the kinds of details the three-judge panel will have to assess in March, to determine when a lover, even the illicit kind, can hold you liable.


source

It seems there's no end to the twists and turns the law can take with this kind of thing. A spouse can sue, and win, for alienation of affection - and a mistress can sue for spousal benefits, even when the partner is already married.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 07:42 pm
Interesting!

Doesn't bigamy come into this at some point?
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 07:48 pm
Truthfully, sozobe (do you have a headache?) I don't know what laws we have in regard to bigamy. Clearly, the judge felt that Margo met the definition of common-law spouse, while her partner was/is married.

Gotta say the lady's got guts. The court case which got her child support for their daughter was brutal, and this doesn't look like it's going to be any easier. I'm trying to get something a little more recent, but a former common co-worker for both of us says that it's still at the legal wrangling stage, nothing further has been published.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 07:50 pm
Gosh.

(Yes, I have had a splitting headache since the Packers tanked on Sunday. Plus, as a result, I lost a bet with Gus. Hence, ice pack.)
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 08:14 pm
That's interesting Beth. Thanks for posting that. My sons father and I were together for 5 years before we split and I believe he was seeing his current wife (who he left this past Christmas Eve) before things ended with us. If I was one for revenge I could really run with this, but it's not worth it. All I want from the man is child support for my son. The man had the nerve to call our son today and complain to him about me taking him back to court for more support. He told our son that I was going to drain him and he would be forced to go back with his wife. What a jerk. I am so glad my son is old enough now to see through this crap. Grrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 10:12 pm
Smile
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 10:26 pm
As is so often the case, Lola, my former colleague didn't see the need to protect herself. Things went well for many years. They travelled as a family, their daughter was a member of her father's family (went to ball games etc. with uncles and grand-dad), etc. etc.

People in happy relationships often/usually (?) don't expect to need protection from their partner in the future.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 10:28 pm
I think several people in that relationship did odd things, but I don't think we could say anyone was promiscuous.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 10:45 pm
which.. is a perjorative that slams down compensation..

aggg, more on my swirling pov later.

I speak as a woman who is paying now for not going for alimony, from my sense of fairness/notice of reality/ at the time.

Well, I guess I'll be quiet until I read more. I ordinarily have room for reasoning in disputing povs.
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