Obunga: Palestine must be based on 67 borders........

@oralloy,

Quote:

I don't do that. I wish it used *on the bad guys*.

I've shown you that you are living in a fantasy world. John Stockwell was a high ranking CIA. He was responsible for the very programs that he stated were aimed at innocents. He has given as accurate a count as is possible of the death and destruction that the US government has visited on untold numbers of people across the globe.

You didn't read it.

And still you spout your jr high macho babble. Still you fantasize about bombing innocents into oblivion as if it's some kind of video game.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

Nope. You can't show a single fact I had wrong.

Once again, yes I did, I showed you examples of IDF brutality,
but with your blinkered mindset you just cant process it.

Quote:

Yes. You're quite the dimwitted thug, aren't you.

Not at all, I abhor violence except when it comes to racist, hate-filled
bigots like yourself. You have got to stand up to war mongers like you.

Once again you show your limited intelligence, if I'm a thug for wanting
to deal with a racist like you, then what does that make you destroyer
of nations, drooling over the prospect of wiping out entire populations,
dismissive of the FACT that the IDF have killed over 660 Palestinian
children.
You are a sick twisted creature who urgently needs to hold up a mirror
to your own ego and your own failings.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Shift the focus ?? We are talking about land being taken from the original owners, however that may be and a method for working it out was not established . I pointed out the difficulty of doing that fairly, but it seems you only want to talk about one particular incidence .

Quote:

What land do you suggest should be returned to me?

I suggest your family should be less enthusiastic and more selective . What if a DNA test shows your ancestors were from Africa....perhaps Carthaginian.....or heaven forbid, their relatives, the Jews....obviously you should be returned to the Levant as you are an invader . What about the native peoples of Britain ? Have you no regard ?

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

The brutal occupation of the Palestinian people is only allowed because of American military might and aid. What is contemptable is the way you try to absolve your country of any responsibilty whatsover because of the past actions of others. I can accept the crimes of my country, you just seem to be in denial about the crimes of yours.

I'm not so sure about that. If we were to have washed our hands of the matter the Israelis would likely have still won the 1973 War with Egypt and Syria, and, had we not stopped (then) general Ariel Sharon's advance to Cairo there might have been even more lasting destruction of Egypt's ability to resist. Indeed even in 1967 the Israelis came very close to taking Damascus - there was nothing to stop them after they took the Golan except their likely belief they could not long hold it.

I suppose we could have forcefully intervened to stop Israel at its pre 1967 borders, but so could have Britain prior to 1948 (arguably at least you had a legal and moral responsibility to do so). Instead, after stealing the territory from the Ottomans and promising it to both the Arabs and the Zionists, you washed your hands of the trouble you had greated and simply bugged out. Given that shameful episode, it seems both unfair and hypocritical of you to insist that we should have later done it ourselves. As late as 1956 both Britain and France had the resources and the willingness to invade Egypt (along with the Israelis) to pursue their own selfish aims, so it appears that the ability (if not the inclination to right a supposed moral wrong) was there. For us I believe the requirement for direct military intervention against Israel would have been stoutly opposed by our relatively very large American Jewish population - something that no longer exists in most of Europe (most of those who survived the holocaust went to Israel). European anti Semites might have been pleased by such American action, but they are hardly a model for good behavior.

Do you think the brutal ethnic cleansing in Bosnia now almost two decades ago was also a consequence of American wrongdoing and indifference? My impression was that it was extremely difficult to arouse you highly moralistic Europeans to even simple actions to limit wholesale massacres of innocents even in your very midst in Europe. Given that sordid episode in your recent history, what gives any of you the moral standing to make such judgements about us?

The problem in Palestine, morally, politically and in terms of the motivations of the Zionist settlers is entirely of European origin. Despite this European nations (yours prominently included) have done nothing to alleviate it - even in cases where it was your clear moral and legal responsibility to do so, as in 1948. You certainly are welcome to try now - what, after all (but yourselves) is stopping you ??? Instead, you abrogated your moral and political standing in the matter then and ever afterwards , and should keep your mouths shut now.

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@eurocelticyankee,

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Here's the death toll since 2000

So the Palestinians have your sympathy for being unsuccessful ? How many do you think they wanted to kill ?

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@JTT,

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the terrorists/mass murderers that are the US governments.

You are really fucked in the head . We are talking about 6 million Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, political prisoners, resistance fighters, people assisting the return of allied airmen, those actively resisting Hitler and you talk about

Quote:

a zero level of morality, an acute fondness for murder and mayhem

Why do you apologise for war criminals ?

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@JTT,

'fess up.....who raped you ?

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@JTT,

Your support of Hamas and other terrorist activities has been noted before . Why do you support war crimes so vehemently ?

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@JTT,

Quote:

War crimes, mass murder, torture, rape , terrorism are not examples of skulduggery.

Thats right...they are examples of your friends having a little fun, arent they JoinTalibanTerrorism ?

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Four more posts of jr high macho babble with an Ionus twist.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Tell us how terrorists are nice people because unlike the USA government they are democratically elected....tell us how you can openly criticise in Hamas and be received thoughtfully .

Who raped you and are you the idiot Alda or the whore Fonda ?

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@JTT,

Quote:

John Stockwell was a high ranking CIA

So can they be trusted or not ? Your psychosis has them condemned in one post and praised in the very next .

1 Reply

@Ionus,

What I can't get over is your extensive sourcing and the "quality" of your arguments.

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@JTT,

Do you mean sourcing like one CIA ex-member saying how awful the CIA is after retiring and writing a book ? Did it ever occur to you that fools like you spend money to read about juicy war crimes and dont care if they have been extremely critical of the honesty of the source in the past ? That sort of sourcing and "quality" I leave to you in your delusion .

And I am very serious when I say you are at least a compulsive obsessive with delusional tendencies .....perhaps psychotic . See a local health professional .

1 Reply

@Ionus,

No, I mean the nonexistent sourcing that is the basis for your rants. But admittedly, it's impossible to find sources for your insanity.

Quote:

Do you mean sourcing like one CIA ex-member saying how awful the CIA is after retiring

He retired, did he? You don't read any of the material because it is beyond your reading level; what you might understand creates too much cognitive dissonance - that's a natural occurrence for people with immature thought processes.

Did it ever occur to a unique fool like you to stick to the facts instead of making things up as you go along.

1 Reply

@eurocelticyankee,

eurocelticyankee wrote:

Oralloy wrote:
Nope. You can't show a single fact I had wrong.

Once again, yes I did, I showed you examples of IDF brutality,
but with your blinkered mindset you just cant process it.

No, little Nazi dummy. The first of your three videos purported to show an Israeli soldier intentionally firing a rubber bullet at a non-resisting Palestinian, but it was clearly faked.

Even if it hadn't been fake, it would just be an assault by a single soldier, not some big crime being carried out by Israel itself.

The second of your videos was a news clip about some supposed instance of collateral damage, probably from the 2006 war that Lebanon started with Israel.

You can lie and pretend that collateral damage is a crime, but that's just you telling yet another lie. You're pretty dishonest, but that doesn't make your lies true.

And the clip was clearly from just after the incident. Who know if the subsequent investigation showed that no civilians were killed.

Your third clip was posted by an anti-Semitic Nazi scumbag like yourself, so I assumed it to be fake and didn't bother to view it.

Possibly from the comments the clip had to do with Rachal Corrie. If so, it was an accidental death, hardly a war crime.

So, no. You haven't shown that I've gotten any facts wrong. All you've done is spew some more lies.

eurocelticyankee wrote:

Oralloy wrote:
Yes. You're quite the dimwitted thug, aren't you.

Not at all, I abhor violence

Stop lying. You are a stupid, dishonest and violent person. And that is all you will ever be.

eurocelticyankee wrote:

except when it comes to racist, hate-filled bigots like yourself.

eurocelticyankee wrote:

Once again you show your limited intelligence,

eurocelticyankee wrote:

to deal with a racist like you,

Gungasnake sure got it right when he noted that you freaks always falsely accuse other people of your own filth.

eurocelticyankee wrote:

then what does that make you destroyer
of nations, drooling over the prospect of wiping out entire populations,

Hey. If your nation chooses to launch an unjust war against Israel based on your anti-Semitic scumbag lies, then your nation's gettin destroyed.

Whining about it won't help. It just makes you look even more like a freak.

If you don't want to be annihilated in a war, then don't go starting one in the first place.

I know, you're too stupid to figure that out. But maybe if you're really lucky your national leaders are not as stupid as you are, and will not indulge in anti-Semitic nonsense.

eurocelticyankee wrote:

dismissive of the FACT that the IDF have killed over 660 Palestinian children.

Context for your "fact" is important.

Most of the supposed "dead Palestinian children" were teenagers killed in self defense as they were attacking people with a deadly weapon.

Your dishonesty in pretending that they are somehow equivalent to a "three-year-old intentionally murdered by a Palestinian" is, well, your dishonesty. But don't expect anyone to fall for your silly lies.

eurocelticyankee wrote:

You are a sick twisted creature who urgently needs to hold up a mirror
to your own ego and your own failings.

Liar.

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@Ionus,

You really are very stupid. I do have celtic blood in me, that's what I get from the Irish side. I have no idea what you think makes up the population of Britain today if all the Celts, Picts, Romans, Vikings, Anglo-Saxons and Normans were wiped out. You imply I'm racist, but you let all of the vile racist comments by oralboy and gunga slip by without comment.

See if you can answer the question. What do you think about drawing up an independent Palestine based on 1967 borders? Or is that something you basically cannot do, because it would require thinking?

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@georgeob1,

Gob1 says
Do you think the brutal ethnic cleansing in Bosnia now almost two decades ago was also a consequence of American wrongdoing and indifference? My impression was that it was extremely difficult to arouse you highly moralistic Europeans to even simple actions to limit wholesale massacres of innocents even in your very midst in Europe. Given that sordid episode in your recent history, what gives any of you the moral standing to make such judgements about us?

So you still will not criticise any of the comments by oralboy and gunga. You're just a bigot pure and simple, trying to sound respectable by misquoting history. If you actually knew anything about what happened in Yugoslavia you would know the UK was the prime mover of intervention, and that Clinton did not accept the idea of troops on the ground until American public opinion shifted towards it following a speech by Tony Blair.

Something you seem to be completely unaware of was the truth behind our joint histories. The Revolution was all about Americans thinking the British taxpayer should pay for protecting Americans from the French. When we had the temerity to suggest you should pay something you sold us out to the French. It was all about establishing a rich oligarchy, Washington becoming America's first millionaire and the slaughter of the indiginous people increasing exponentially. No wonder Tom Paine left in disgust. Then again you seem to view history as an all you can eat diner, just taking the bits you like and leaving out the rest. And you've still not even began to talk about the topic. You really are a pompus windbag spouting bollocks.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Gob1 said

I'm not so sure about that. If we were to have washed our hands of the matter the Israelis would likely have still won the 1973 War with Egypt and Syria, and, had we not stopped (then) general Ariel Sharon's advance to Cairo there might have been even more lasting destruction of Egypt's ability to resist. Indeed even in 1967 the Israelis came very close to taking Damascus - there was nothing to stop them after they took the Golan except their likely belief they could not long hold it.

You're quite right America was acting purely on humanitarian grounds. It had absolutely nothing to do with the possible involvement of the Soviet Union.

I don't know what it is that makes you feel so inadequate, is it because your sweetheart left you for a European? Is it because despite America's size and wealth they do not have as profound an influence on the world today as a tiny island off the coast of Europe had in the C19. Or is it that for someone who professes to know so much about history you're jealous of someone who can drive a few miles up the road and see Stonehenge. That's so old it's not even historic, it's pre-historic. This is the real cradle of civilisation not Mesopotamia, that was the kindergarden. It's so very ironic isn't it? You go on and on about history, but you have so very little of your own. No wonder you feel so inadequate, like a eunuch obsessed with pornography.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

So you still will not criticise any of the comments by oralboy and gunga. You're just a bigot pure and simple, trying to sound respectable by misquoting history. If you actually knew anything about what happened in Yugoslavia you would know the UK was the prime mover of intervention, and that Clinton did not accept the idea of troops on the ground until American public opinion shifted towards it following a speech by Tony Blair.

Something you seem to be completely unaware of was the truth behind our joint histories. The Revolution was all about Americans thinking the British taxpayer should pay for protecting Americans from the French. When we had the temerity to suggest you should pay something you sold us out to the French. It was all about establishing a rich oligarchy, Washington becoming America's first millionaire and the slaughter of the indiginous people increasing exponentially. No wonder Tom Paine left in disgust. Then again you seem to view history as an all you can eat diner, just taking the bits you like and leaving out the rest. And you've still not even began to talk about the topic. You really are a pompus windbag spouting bollocks.

I frankly don't follow the comments of oralloy or gunga at all, and don't have much interest in their usually predictable perspectives. The fact is you and I appear to agree on the basic point here, namely that a two state solution should be found in Palestine, based roughly on the 1967 borders with some pragmatic adjustments. The Palestinian state that results should have the rights and perogatives of any other , including the control of its airspace and water.

I have however responded to your outrageous and extraordinarily hypocritical assertion that the continuing impasse and struggle in the Mideast is somehow the fault of the United States. I have noted the rather awful European origin of the exodus of Jews from Israel; the self-serving duplicity of the British Empire in dismembering the Ottoman state and creating the competing ambitions of Arab and European Zionist leaders for eventual control of Palestine - all in pursuit of its own greedy goals; and finally the supine political and moral irresponsibility of its abrupt abandonment of the disintegrating situation in 1948. I have also made reference to Britain's continuing exploitation of its colonial residue in Iran in 1952 and later in Suez in 1956, pointing out that you had the ability to alter the situation in Palestine if you really wished to do so. Finally I noted the understandable views of a fairly large Jewish population in this country - something that no longer exists in most of Europe.

Instead of responding to the central point you have indulged in historical distractions, including the familiar ones about our (very successful) revolution in 1776 and criticisms of my responses, based on their supposed ancient irrelevance to the issue at hand (an oddly hypocritical combination, I think).

Who here is the windbag?

2 Replies

Obunga: Palestine must be based on 67 borders........

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