Osama Bin Laden is dead

I would love to meet face to face and tell you...please PM me with your details....

I've told you a number of times, Hawkeye. I have no hate for the US. What I find troubling are the numerous and completely indisputable instances of mass murder, war crimes and all manner of evil.

Almost as troubling is the blinkered mindset of way way too many Americans and others to these crimes.

And yet, here you go again.

Unadulterated dribble....you have assumed someone came from the USA because they were a racist by your definition . You have said everyone in the USA is a war criminal by your definition . But you dont hate them...awww....arent you lovely .

Ionus said

Don't you remember calling me a war criminal ?

I can't speak for JTT, but I can't see any proof that you are a war criminal. I don't know anything about your military career, I do know it's a lot different being in the field than sitting back in an armchair at home and criticising. I can only assume that you conducted yourself within the rules of war, and if you did see action you would have been faced with stresses and strains the rest of us can only imagine. You do seem to be very angry, a lot of your posts are filled with bloody violent imagery. As the parent of two children, I would not feel happy if someone, who appears to be as angry as you, moved in next door.

I think you're confusing criticism of the way America defends its interests as criticism of American values. I don't have a problem with American values overall, but I do have a problem with the way America has defended its interests. In the UK we've just had an inquest into the Bloody Sunday massacre in which unarmed peaceful Irish nationalist protesters were gunned down by the parachute regiment. There were similar arguments to ones that you have put forward about the North Vietnamese being bandied around our right wing newspapers. Why should the parachute regiment be singled out for special treatment when the crimes of the Provisional IRA seem to be ignored?

The answer is, is that British soldiers are accountable to the British government that is democratically elected. The IRA is a terrorist organisation, we don't expect them to be held to the same high standards. Similarly with the North Vietnamese government and the American forces. We don't expect a dictatorship to be held to the same high standards of a democracy. America is supposed to be better than that. You cannot promote American values whilst at the same time using the techniques of brutal dictatorships to promote American interests.

I have no problem with America's involvement in Kosovo, I supported it at the time and still do. I do think that the horrors of Abu Ghraib prison did far more to recruit Al Qaida terrorists than any amount of speeches by Bin Laden. Until the West starts to operate according to its values, dictatorial regimes can continue to accuse us of hypocrisy, and of paying lip service to human rights

The key issues here are not about Osama. They are about devolvement.

Are we, as the dominant species, actually evolving?

Or, as circumstances would suggest, actually devolving?

Several reasons for the assassination (if it was actually the target mentioned)have been tabled, but none address the simple issue of basic human rights, for which the western governments purport to be the dividing light between the western governance symbolism, and the "barbaric" Eastern system.


Killing a man in cold blood while his wife tries to protect him, as the evidence suggests, is not an act of war. The mission was never meant to capture him. If, in fact, it was actually him.

The question remains; does the US admin consider itself to be above and beyond any international law? Does it consider itself to be beyond reproach on the international front?

If so, then the US admin has just declared itself to be a renegade. Again.

The shitty thing is..... your country is not bullet proof. You can throw any amount of bombs at a country, and they'll remember what you did.

From a British perspective, this whole affair reminds me of when the SAS gunned down an IRA cell on the Rock of Gibraltar. The consequences of that have been trundling on for years.

NB: italics added

Your answer is flat-out wrong. NO soldiers are accountable to any government for actions taken on the VERY ORDERS of government - "democratically elected" or not. The opposite is true - the government is accountable to the citizens, and most particularly to the soldiers, for the price IT has decided to pay in BLOOD and TREASURE. Sorry for the caps - personally I'm a mere taxpayer, so can't claim to have shed blood on any U.S. or other Western causes - but Ionus, whom you're addressing (he's Australian, FYI) has done both. You may recognize......

So you don't think that soldiers should be held accoutable for criminal action, like in the Bloody Sunday massacre? There's carrying out your governments orders, then there's going beyond that. Let me make one thing clear, I have not accused Ionus of anything.

3 statements here, answered one at a time:
- Any massacres are beyond my purview - sorry not sure which "bloody Sunday" is being referred to.
- Nor do I have any clue on what orders, given by which government, were being carried out on that occasion (kindly see above)
- True; you've accused Ionus of nothing - to your credit, unlike pestilential creep JTT, who afflicts this forum, and whom no person of sound mind will engage unless on a charity mission, as my good friend (and fellow pilot) Ionus appears to be - but you have been warned

I mentioned the Bloody Sunday massacre in the original post you replied to.

'In the UK we've just had an inquest into the Bloody Sunday massacre in which unarmed peaceful Irish nationalist protesters were gunned down by the parachute regiment. '

If you were British or Irish you couldn't help but know about it. One of David Cameron's first acts as prime minister was to apologise to the families of the victims. One of the good things about that was that there was no mention of it during the Queen's visit to Ireland. If we'd not had the inquest that's all they'd be talking about.

Thanks. Of course I read your post before replying to it, but the "unarmed" part is something sadly seen in conflicts of all sorts - many of them ongoing. I do have enough history to understand longstanding strife between Normans/Irish/French/Germans/Scots/Slavs, et al, et al. But... you can't possibly expect anyone at this late stage to arbitrate 1066, can you? Or Culloden, or the Irish famine, or whatever? Peace

As far as the US is concerned, you have that right, HS. Out of the thousands upon thousands of cases of war crimes/mass murder, US soldiers are rarely held accountable because that blood stained chain leads all the way to the top.

Nice red herring, LtCol Flagg.

High Seas said,

you can't possibly expect anyone at this late stage to arbitrate 1066, can you?

We could, we could kick all the aristos back to Normandy.

How does one describe something like this?

Shocking but not surprising.

Neither shocking nor surprising.

Surprising, but not at all shocking.

What makes him a fellow pilot? Is it that you are impressed that his posts are as vacuous and empty as yours, HS?

Translation: This could easily get me into home territory, so I'm squelching this riiiiight now!



Translation: Just in case you didn't understand the intent in my first statement; squelched, finito, over, done, verboten area, ... .

JoinTalibanTerrorism does not require proof....hysterical hatred is enough . If I was in the army then I am a war criminal...pretty close to her exact words .

Translation : let them commit war crimes, just so we can indulge in some tall poppy syndrome amongst our own...after all, what is the good of criticising war criminals if they just shrug it off ? Far better to criticise our own side, in small group dynamics that will get us more power within the tribe .

Your exageration makes you your own worse enemy . When will you be proving any of these thousands upon thousands of cases ...and will mine be amongst them ? Will I be a baby bayoneter or a cutting-off-the-breasts-of-breast-feeding-women ? Perhaps I will be a rapist ?

You have special knowledge dont you....

But surely in your delusion those war crimes were committed by the USA ?