The Communist Origin of the Modern Conservative Movement VI

@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

With the high death toll, I suspected the weapon involved would be an assault weapon

Why would you suspect that? Pistol grips have no bearing on how deadly a shooting is.

Zardoz wrote:

but it turned out to be a 45 with a suppressor, thank you president Trump for making silencers legal.

Mr. Trump has not altered the law on suppressors.

Suppressors have required a quite onerous federal registration process ever since 1934.

The Trump Administration did push to have suppressors removed from this onerous federal registration process and treated as normal guns, as part of the SHARE Act.

However, the SHARE Act was never passed by Congress. Federal law on suppressors remains exactly as it has been ever since 1934.

Apparently suppressors are illegal in Virginia Beach, so this guy could not have gone through the onerous federal registration process had he resided within city limits.

It is not clear to me at this time if this guy lived outside Virginia Beach and legally went through the onerous federal registration process, or whether he instead acquired his suppressor illegally.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Fact's don't matter to Zardoz, he makes them up as he goes along and refuses to provide any proof for anything he claims.

2 Replies

@Baldimo,

I certainly differ with him on the facts, but I appreciate those on the left who disagree with me without wanting to kill me.

The polite discussion that Zardoz offers is a breath of fresh air compared to the way some other leftists react to dissent.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

The reason you would supect that assault weapons were involved is the body count. Shootings with pistols usually have a lower body count while assault weapons were designed to commit mass murder whether on the battlefield or your local school. Pistols were no designed for mass murder.
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One police expert on NBC explained how much worse the shooting was because of the use of a silencer and how much more difficult it was for the police to take the shooter down with a silencer. Silencers are only legal in 42 states. The Republicans were pushing a bill thru Congress in 2017 when the Las Vegas shooting took place killing 59 and injuring 500. The Republicans only buried the bill after that shooting otherwise you could buy a silencer at your corner gun nut store. Trump was trying to legalize silencers and it is the thought that counts. The shooter may live out of state and commute to work or bought his silencer before he moved to Virginia Beach. Trump Jr was touring the factories that made silencers as a big support of silencers. You bet they were seeing huge dollars signs and hope to put silencers in every home.
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1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Trump, the NRA, the factories making the silencers, and the Republican in congress were all actively pushing the bill. The bill was sure to pass with Republican majorities in both houses but it was only buried because of the Las Vegas shooting where 59 people were killed and 500 injured. Paul Ryan buried the bill and Trump decided to withdraw his support of the bill. The funeral did not get any publicity.

0 Replies

@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

The reason you would supect that assault weapons were involved is the body count.

Having a pistol grip on a rifle will not impact the body count in any way.

Zardoz wrote:

Shootings with pistols usually have a lower body count

That's because handguns are weaker than long guns, not because of any assault weapon features.

Zardoz wrote:

while assault weapons were designed to commit mass murder whether on the battlefield or your local school.

That is incorrect. Having a pistol grip on a rifle does not mean that it was designed for mass murder.

Zardoz wrote:

Pistols were no designed for mass murder.

Neither are rifles with pistol grips.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

You can put a pistol grip on a shot gun but it doesn’t make it an assault weapon. It is the assault weapons that are designed to kill large number of people very quickly.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Pistols were designed primarily for personal protection, a defensive weapon, pistols are not designed to kill large number people quickly, an offensive weapon.
Shot guns do have pistol grips and no one is complaining about them, the issue is that assaults weapons have a design capacity to fire 900 rounds a minute. Even with a semi-automatic the number of rounds is only limited by how many times you can pull the trigger.
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Assault weapons were designed as weapons of war, you want weapons that kill as many people as possible on the battlefield.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

You can put a pistol grip on a shot gun but it doesn’t make it an assault weapon.

That is incorrect. All an assault weapon is, is a long gun with cosmetic features like a pistol grip.

Zardoz wrote:

It is the assault weapons that are designed to kill large number of people very quickly.

That is incorrect. Adding a pistol grip to a long gun does not increase the rate at which it can kill people.

Zardoz wrote:

Shot guns do have pistol grips and no one is complaining about them,

That is incorrect. The left goes to great lengths to try to ban assault weapons. So much so that other gun control proposals are often ignored.

Zardoz wrote:

the issue is that assaults weapons have a design capacity to fire 900 rounds a minute.

That is incorrect. Having a pistol grip on a gun does not make it become capable of firing 900 rounds a minute.

Zardoz wrote:

Even with a semi-automatic the number of rounds is only limited by how many times you can pull the trigger.

True, but that has nothing to do with assault weapons.

Zardoz wrote:

Assault weapons were designed as weapons of war,

That is incorrect. Having a pistol grip on a long gun does not mean that it was designed for war.

It is also irrelevant. The English longbow was designed for war. There is nothing wrong with people having English longbows.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Long rifles were designed for hunting, assault weapons were designed to win wars with. There were a lot of long rifles on the market when the AR-15 was designed and the AR was completely revolutionary and was granted a patent. Colt bought the patent. If the AR-15 was just a long gun with a pistol grip colt would not need to buy ArmaLite’s patent.
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Pistol grips don’t require patents assault weapons do.
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Pistol grips are not the problem anybody can put any type of handle on their long gun but it won’t make their long gun an assault weapon.
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The number of rounds and speed which they can be fired are important design parameters for an assault weapon.
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The advantage an assault weapons has over a rifle is the number of rounds it can deliver in a minute.
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ArmaLite designed the AR-15 for a contest to design an aircrew survival rifle. An assault weapon designed for the military.

The gun nuts and the gun manufacturers have made America more dangerous than a battlefield. There are now more people killed in the streets than in several of Americas wars combined.

“When will they learn, when will they ever learn.”

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1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

Long rifles were designed for hunting,

Some are. Some are designed for self defense. Others are designed for sport shooting competitions.

Zardoz wrote:

assault weapons were designed to win wars with.

That is incorrect. Putting a pistol grip on a long gun does not mean that it was designed to fight a war.

It is also irrelevant. The English longbow was designed to fight a war. There is nothing wrong with people owning an English longbow.

Zardoz wrote:

There were a lot of long rifles on the market when the AR-15 was designed and the AR was completely revolutionary and was granted a patent. Colt bought the patent. If the AR-15 was just a long gun with a pistol grip colt would not need to buy ArmaLite’s patent.

The fact that there is a patent on the design does not change the fact that the AR-15 is just a long gun with a pistol grip on it.

Zardoz wrote:

Pistol grips don’t require patents assault weapons do.

An assault weapon is just a long gun with a pistol grip added.

Zardoz wrote:

Pistol grips are not the problem

That is why you are not allowed to ban assault weapons.

Zardoz wrote:

anybody can put any type of handle on their long gun but it won’t make their long gun an assault weapon.

That is incorrect. An assault weapon is just a long gun with a pistol grip.

Zardoz wrote:

The number of rounds and speed which they can be fired are important design parameters for an assault weapon.

That is incorrect. Pistol grips have nothing to do with the number of rounds that a gun has, or the speed at which they can be fired.

Zardoz wrote:

The advantage an assault weapons has over a rifle is the number of rounds it can deliver in a minute.

That is incorrect. Pistol grips do not change the rate of fire of a gun.

Zardoz wrote:

ArmaLite designed the AR-15 for a contest to design an aircrew survival rifle. An assault weapon designed for the military.

So what? The English longbow was designed for the military too.

Zardoz wrote:

The gun nuts and the gun manufacturers have made America more dangerous than a battlefield.

That is incorrect. Our defense of civil liberties has not made America any less safe.

1 Reply

Zardoz, it seems that chicken you spent so much time defending has been arrested on several counts of neglect of a child, culpable negligence and perjury. Had this man done his job, there likely wouldn't be 17 dead kids in FL. The Police dept and local leaders totally failed to protect that city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/us/parkland-scot-peterson.html

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Assault weapons were designed to slaughter the maximum amount of people in shortest amount of time.
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Pistol grips have been around for a long time and handles do not require patents but assault weapons do.

Model Ts were designed to get people back and forth to work but no one wants to drive a model T back and forth to work today. Things become obsolete over time even weapons of war. When was the last time you heard of 59 people being killed and 500 injured with a long bow?
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Patents are only granted if there is a significant improvement in an invention.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A long rifle may be a gun, but a horse is just an animal and a dog is just an animal but taking your dog out for a ride or having your horse watch your house is not a good idea. Just because an assault weapon is a long rifle doesn’t mean there is not a world of difference.
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Assault weapons have been banned before and they will be banned again.
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When something is designed it is designed for a particular purpose in mind all guns were not designed with the same purpose in mind.
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Guns are designed to accommodate certain clips. The clips for assault weapons are generally high capacity clips.
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You could remove the pistol grip from an assault weapon and it would still fire 900 rounds a minute.
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the musket might have designed for military but no one would want to try and fight a war with today.
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Usually when someone is murdered there is a reason but mass murders just shoot people at random for no good reason. It is the random shooting done for no good reason that make America dangerous. We are no beginning to see people that survived two mass murders. A councilman in Virginia Beach shooting had been at the University of Virginia shooting. Next, we will have people that have survived three mass murders.
____________

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

It comes down to a lot of Monday morning quarter backing. It is easy to say what someone could have done or should have done after the fact. This just lets the gun nuts redirect their anger away from the assault weapons. School resources officer is typically a job for those nearing retirement. This officer was trained to act just as he did over his career and did nothing but wait on re-enforcements. He probably did the same thing a hundred times during his career. If he had went up against the assault weapon it would have been just one more dead body. It would have been like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

What is their excuse for not entering the building after backup was on the scene?

CNN wrote:

When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

Assault weapons were designed to slaughter the maximum amount of people in shortest amount of time.

That is incorrect. Having a pistol grip on a long gun does not make it kill more people.

Zardoz wrote:

Pistol grips have been around for a long time and handles do not require patents but assault weapons do.

An assault weapon is just a long gun with a pistol grip.

Zardoz wrote:

Model Ts were designed to get people back and forth to work but no one wants to drive a model T back and forth to work today.

That doesn't change the fact that they are automobiles.

Zardoz wrote:

Things become obsolete over time even weapons of war.

That does not change the fact that they are weapons of war.

Zardoz wrote:

When was the last time you heard of 59 people being killed and 500 injured with a long bow?

The Battle of Agincourt, October 25, 1415.

Zardoz wrote:

Patents are only granted if there is a significant improvement in an invention.

That is incorrect. It merely has to be a new invention.

Not that it matters either way. Even if the AR-15 is an improvement over older models, that doesn't give you any right to ban it.

Zardoz wrote:

A long rifle may be a gun, but a horse is just an animal and a dog is just an animal but taking your dog out for a ride or having your horse watch your house is not a good idea. Just because an assault weapon is a long rifle doesn’t mean there is not a world of difference.

Having a pistol grip on a long gun makes very little difference.

Zardoz wrote:

Assault weapons have been banned

That was a horrible atrocity. We should seize the property of everyone who supported the ban and give it to gun owners as compensation.

Zardoz wrote:

and they will be banned again.

The NRA will prevent any such atrocity from happening again at the federal level.

The Supreme Court will strike down any such atrocities that happen at the state and local levels.

Zardoz wrote:

When something is designed it is designed for a particular purpose in mind all guns were not designed with the same purpose in mind.

Some weapons are designed for hunting. Other weapons are designed for self defense. Still other weapons are designed for target shooting competitions.

Zardoz wrote:

Guns are designed to accommodate certain clips. The clips for assault weapons are generally high capacity clips.

The presence or absence of a pistol grip has no bearing on what kind of magazine a gun will accept.

Zardoz wrote:

You could remove the pistol grip from an assault weapon and it would still fire 900 rounds a minute.

Semi-auto guns do not fire 900 rounds per minute.

The fact that pistol grips do not alter rate of fire is exactly why there is no justification for banning assault weapons.

Zardoz wrote:

the musket might have designed for military but no one would want to try and fight a war with today.

That does not change the fact that it is a weapon of war.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote:

The Battle of Agincourt, October 25, 1415.

Don't be obtuse. There was more than "a longbow" employed in that historic battle.

1 Reply

@hightor,

So what? It is still a weapon of war is it not?

0 Replies

@oralloy,

This is the first time in history that a police officer has faced a criminal-charges for inaction. Up until now policemen have only faced criminal charges for doing something like shooting unarmed suspects. What is next? A voluntary fireman arrives on a fully involved structure fire only to hear screams of children. If he doesn’t go in will he be charged with child abuse? In police training they train the police over and over again until the training is second nature and the policeman does it without even thinking. One of the inspectors I worked with heard gunshots one night and a man was blown away with a shotgun on the porch next door. The ambulance arrived first but could not treat the man till the police arrived. The policemen that were given the call agreed to meet a block away so they would arrive at the same time. Most police departments had SWAT teams to handle serious shootings. One policeman would never take on a mass murder by himself.

Procedures change over time but it has been thousands of years since we sanctioned human sacrifices. The new procedures have only been in place over the last decade. The older officers still have the old procedures ingrained and they are second nature. Put the blame where it belongs on the assault weapons. There were hundreds of thousands of instances across the United State where police officers didn’t rush in to mass murder scene but waited for SWAT to arrive.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Zardoz wrote:

One policeman would never take on a mass murder by himself.

This is not a case of waiting for backup. This is a case of not even going in after backup arrived.

Zardoz wrote:

Put the blame where it belongs on the assault weapons.

Pistol grips on a long gun are not to blame for any killings anywhere.

Zardoz wrote:

There were hundreds of thousands of instances across the United State where police officers didn’t rush in to mass murder scene but waited for SWAT to arrive.

If these four police officers responded the way they were trained, then whoever trained them has some explaining to do.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

So far as I know nobody has ever blamed pistol grips for mass murders but assault weapons have been responsible for many mass murders.
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A pistol grip does not make a long gun an assault weapon.
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You need the right tool to do the right job and that applies to mass murders also. Assault weapons are the right tool for mass murders.
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The long bow is long obsolete as a weapon of war it made clubs obsolete as a weapon of war obsolete.
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Time and technology march on and many state of the art weapons are long obsolete. Six hundred years is an eternity in technological time.
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It does not have to be a new invention to get a patent it only has to be a significant modification of a current invention.
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A pistol grip may not make a difference but making a gun that can shoot 900 rounds a minute does make a difference.
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The assault weapon ban was the best thing that ever happened in America and it saved thousands of lives.
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The NRA officers will end up in jail for money laundering the Russian political contributions. The NRA never overturned the last assault weapon ban it expired.
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And still other weapons are designed for mass murder.
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All guns do not accept magazines.
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The manufacturer disputes that, they designed the assault weapons to fire 900 rounds a minute according to the manufacture.
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All inventions have lifetime and become obsolete, weapons of war are no exception.

1 Reply

The Communist Origin of the Modern Conservative Movement VI

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