10
   

Why Women Stay in Abusive Relationships

 
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 03:40 am
@msolga,
http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66103&page=1

Good Family Being Torn Apart Against Own Wishes
My question involves restraining orders in the State of: Indiana
My husband and I recently got into an altercation and were both Incarcerated for Domestic Battery A class D Felony. We had our issuue resolved by the time the police arrived and instead of leaving they picked up the charges. My question is if neither of us testify against each other will they even have a case also we havE a 4 month old baby who they say he can not see since he cant be near me bacause of the no contact order the police also set on there own. How do we make this all go away.We have been married 4 years and never been in a dispute and the only marks there are is some scratches on his face. Please Help we have 5 kids and this silly argument is trying to tear our family apart. HOW DO WE GET THE NO CONTACT ORDER DROPPED ALSO??????????
.
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01-11-2009 08:12 AM #2 LawResearcherMissy
View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message

Senior Member Join Date:Jan 2008
Posts:11,620 Re: Good Family Being Torn Apart Against Own Wishes
Once the police get involved in a domestic situation, it is out of your hands.

No, you cannot simply get the no contact order dropped. Only the courts can make that decision.

You'd do well to consult an attorney in your area to get your situation straightened out.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 03:52 am
@BillRM,
Bill, I personally know of quite a number of cases ( relatives, or friends, even) where women are eventually forced to flee with their children, to escape their aggressors. For their own safety and the safety of their children.
Often putting off taking such action time & time again, because of the difficulty of accommodating young children in such circumstances, at other times finally accepting that their husband's promises (following the last violent episode) to change his behaviour toward them is not actually going to happen.
In most cases, these flights are not sudden decisions, but have occurred after years of abuse.
And often the women and children face considerable financial hardship after they have left the family home.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 03:59 am
@msolga,
http://www.dvmen.org/dv-6.htm

Lifetime effects of DV conviction or plea bargain
DA cannot dismiss DV charges
Top

1. The District Attorney cannot dismiss a domestic violence case or plea bargain it to anything that does not involve domestic violence C.R.S. § 18-6-801 (3). Realistically, the only way you can clear your record of a domestic violence charge is to go through a jury trial. Bear in mind that the prosecutor will attempt to bluff you about going to trial, and your defense attorney may recommend a plea bargain because he gets paid but doesn't have to go to the time and effort of preparing for trial.

If you wisely call the prosecutor's bluff and insist on going to a jury trial we have heard innumerable stories from men where the district attorney asks the judge to dismiss the case the day before or the morning the trial is to begin.

2. If you plead guilty, nolo contendre (no contest), or are convicted, the protection order you signed may be made permanent, a lifetime sentence. If you have a public defender, be aware that the law, C.R.S. § 18-6-801(3), forbids any plea bargain that does not involve pleading guilty to a domestic-violence related charge.

Insist on a jury trial rather than accepting a plea bargain. Only a jury is likely to listen to your side of the story. A plea bargain carries the same lifetime sentence that simply pleading guilty to the original charge would. Anything you tell the police or prosecutor trying to explain your side of the story can and will be used against you.

The punishment is will include domestic violence treatment that you will have to pay for. Even if you are found guilty at trial the punishment will be the same as if you pled guilty.

3. You will be placed on the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) C.R.S. § 18-6-803.7 and the FBI's National Instant Check System for life based solely on the arrest record unless you can prove yourself innocent and then take extraordinary and typically expensive steps to have your name removed. Under Federal law you will never again be able to own, possess, or control a weapon or any dangerous instrument such as explosives 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(8) unless you are able to prove your innocence. However, that will not be explained to you by the judge or prosecutor.

Deferred sentence or judgement is a honey trap
Top

1. If you are represented by counsel, and sometimes without, the prosecutor may offer a plea bargain involving a deferred judgement, deferred sentence, or any other lying euphemism the prosecutor wants to call your guilty plea. Regardless of what it the DA and judge call it, you are pleading guilty to the crime and it will never disappear from your record no matter what they tell you. Remember, a prosecutor can legally lie, and (s)he will.

In this arrangement the judge typically sentences you to two years probation, at least 36-weeks DV counseling (although anger management and drug or alcohol abuse classes may be imposed as well), a fine, and court costs in return for a guilty plea. Typically the mandatory protection order will also be dropped and you can go back home immediately unless your accuser objects. The DA and judge will promise you that the records will be "sealed" if you successfully complete your probation or sentence. They lie!

A deferred sentence or judgement often sounds like a real good deal to many men at the time. That is particularly true if the prosecutor has piled charge after charge on to the original simple misdemeanor assault the police arrested you for and it looks like you're facing 12 years in prison for a Class 3 felony if you go to trial. Or at least that's what the assistant DA is telling you after you've spent one or more sleepless nights in jail. But the long term impacts will not be explained to you, nor the fact that the prosecutor probably has little hope of proving any of the charges against you to a jury.

2. First, a deferred sentence is often only offered in DV cases where the defendant is represented by an attorney. So you may have had to already pay the attorney's retainer. Also, at the end of the sentence you will likely be required to pay the attorney another $1,000 or so to get the records "sealed," a euphemism for making your record very slightly harder for someone to find.

3. For at least two years your conviction will be a matter of public record on COcourts.com and in the Colorado Bureau of Investigation database. However, don't count on your record disappearing off these databases as most remain. Further, any competent private investigator or government agent will have full access to the record showing your conviction for the rest of your life.

4. If you need a new job, a security clearance, a financial bond, own or are around guns or explosives, want to enlist or reenlist in the military, serve with police or fire departments, renew or get a professional license, haul hazardous materials, or utilize many other privileges granted a free man they will be denied you for life.

5. If, at the end of the two years, you have met all the conditions of your probation you may file a motion to seal your record, typically through your attorney at the cost of another $1,000.

However, sealing the records doesn't hide them from government view. So you still won't be able to get a security clearance, serve in the military, work for a police or fire department, own or be in possession of a gun or ammunition, etc.

Any competent private investigator can find your record easily so you probably can't get or renew any professional license. Even if your records are "sealed" you will find yourself having problems getting a job, a mortgage, a financial bond, or any other position or situation where it is likely someone will run a background check on you.

In essence, remedies such as expungement or sealing, and even a pardon, are rendered meaningless due to an omnipresent commercial data-harvesting industry. Effectively this renders any notion of rehabilitation meaningless, hindering for life all with a criminal record in terms of employment, housing, and professional licensing if you accept a plea bargain or are convicted at trial.

6. If you are ever again, at any time in your life, caught in the same situation you will be classified as a repeat offender facing much heavier penalties.

The mark of a criminal record, both arrest and conviction, when coupled with the proliferation of the personal computers and the advent of the Internet makes justice data accessible in an unprecedented way and you will be marked for life if you have taken a plea bargain and been convicted.

In domestic violence or other criminal cases there is no difference between a simple guilty plea and a deferred sentence or judgement.
Private investigators and lie detectors
1. If you find yourself in these circumstances with false allegations being used to deprive you of everything you own and love it would probably be wise, and economical to hire a private investigator to provide you with the facts. One national group we have worked successfully with is Blue Moon Investigations but there are many others.

2. The use of lie detectors can short circuit many of the games women play with false allegations. Dual, paired testing by certified polygraphers working independently of local courts and attorneys holds the promise of significantly reducing perjury commonly encountered in domestic violence cases. Such methods are most economical and effective if employed early in the dispute.

3. Using polygraphy in combination with a private investigator can be particularly effective in preventing false allegations from going forward.

A jury trial is your best chance
Top

1. There is a very good chance, much better than 95%, that you will have your case dismissed or be found innocent in a jury trial, but a plea of guilty, no contest, or accepting a plea bargain of any kind simply because you want to get it over with will be virtually impossible to change. The sentence, protection order, and the label of abuser, are for life. If you value your honor, your career, and freedom, these hearings are the time to defend them.

There were 18,691 misdemeanor cases of domestic violence in 2009 (Table 57) but only 765 misdemeanor jury trials, and in a number of judicial districts and county there were no jury trials. Clearly the odds are very much in your favor if you plead not guilty and demand a jury trial in a criminal domestic violence case. If charged with a felony you would be a fool to not take your case to a jury.

2. Prosecutors found that they got a higher conviction rate if the alleged "victim" didn't testify, so-called "evidence-based prosecution." The approach was to try the case in the same fashion the prosecutor would a murder case, with no victim present (if the defense doesn't subpoena her or she didn't appear). Statements made by the woman at the time of the arrest (excited utterances) are recorded. Videos and photographs from the arrest are used as evidence against you. Police officers also testify and their notes are admitted even though their testimony is hearsay.

However, in Crawford v. Washington in March 2004 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled unanimously that the Confrontation Clause in the Sixth Amendment required that the defendant had the right to cross-examine any witness or author of a report used against him as reaffirmed in Melendez-Diaz v. Massachusetts. That has largely put an end to "evidence-based prosecution" if the woman doesn't want to testify against the man. But that fact may not be explained to you. And be sure your attorney is aware of it as well.

If the woman does want to press charges and continue to trial, you must be sure and subpoena the "victim." Dismissal of the charges should be demanded if she fails to appear as she is very likely to be the best witness in your defense.

3. We hear from many men and women who have taken a plea bargain because they were afraid to go through a jury trial. It is the position of the Equal Justice Foundation that if you are too afraid to stand in front of your fellow citizens and proclaim and defend your innocence then you must be judged guilty, of moral cowardice if nothing else. The jury system is about the only process still working in our courts. Because of that many legislators and judges are doing their best to eliminate jury trials.

Conversely, a bench trial to a judge is simply a long, slow way of pleading guilty.

msolga
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:03 am
@BillRM,
Neutral

You do understand that such cases of domestic violence against women & children actually do exist? Yes?

What are your thoughts on men who treat their families in this way?

What should they do about their own behaviour?

How can their families be best protected from their violence by the authorities?

BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:04 am
@msolga,
And on the other hand a one time and non-violence family fight had resulted in a family being destroy again the wishes of both parties and to the harm of the children.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:04 am
@msolga,
Quote:
In many instances whole families are abused by one aggressive, sometimes violent, family member
In many instances whole nations are abused by one aggressive, sometimes violent, leader......and in almost all cases people are abused by the corporate class who suck up all the wealth and tell the excess labor to stop bitching about their poverty and their empty stomachs...so what the **** is your point? You all have a orgasm over throwing some jerk off guy who takes a smack at his woman in the clink as you hell ABUSE! ABUSE! ABUSE!! as abuse 1000 times worse than that is going on all around you every day that you dont say jack **** about. Have you ever heard of the concept of prioritizing?
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:08 am
@msolga,
Quote:
You do understand that such cases of domestic violence against women & children actually do exist?

What are your thoughts on men who treat their families in this way?


An it is somehow helpful to harm and likely destroy other families where no such violence had occur because no common sense is allow in such cases at any level of the criminal justice system?
msolga
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:13 am
Well sorry, you guys.

You two are deniers about a situation which is all too prevalent.

How can you possibly not be aware of this this sort domestic violence? Confused

Unlike firefly, I am not going to spend heaps my time arguing with you, or trying to persuade you otherwise, because it would obviously be a complete waste of time.

So I'll leave it here.

Bye.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:22 am
@msolga,
Once my wife and I had a problem with our monitor alarm system that resulted in the police being call out to our home in MI.

No fight, and no emotions shown by either of us except a worry that we would get hit by a false alarm fine.

The two police officers look me over oddly and then got my wife alone to talk to her to made sure I was not harming her in some manner!

This with no reason to assume any domestic violence or even a fight had occur and yet as a male alone in a house with his wife after a false alarm the police are now train to look for a reason to charge domestic violence.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:25 am
@msolga,
Yes Msolga better that a hundred innocent families are harm then one case of domestic violence is missed.

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:27 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
In many instances whole nations are abused by one aggressive, sometimes violent, leader......and in almost all cases people are abused by the corporate class who suck up all the wealth and tell the excess labor to stop bitching about their poverty and their empty stomachs...so what the **** is your point? You all have a orgasm over throwing some jerk off guy who takes a smack at his woman in the clink as you hell ABUSE! ABUSE! ABUSE!! as abuse 1000 times worse than that is going on all around you every day that you dont say jack **** about.


Absolute last word:

As a matter of fact, hawkeye, I DO comment about such things.
I have often done so.

BUT, on THIS thread I was talking about domestic violence, against women & children

That was my "******* point". Do you understand now? I was addressing the thread subject.

You are the one (along with your friend) who is refusing to address a very real issue.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:27 am
@msolga,
Quote:
How can you possibly not be aware of this this sort domestic violence
It happens, but so does a lot of bad stuff, this is life.

Here we see
Quote:
Domestic violence killed 18 women in Maryland last year. Women were most likely to be killed by their male partners: 10 women were killed by their husbands or ex-husbands and seven were killed by their boyfriends or ex-boyfriends; the final woman was killed by her brother-in-law.
http://www.tbd.com/blogs/amanda-hess/2011/02/victims-of-domestic-violence-in-maryland-and-how-they-died-8651.html

which I figure has a adult woman in Maryland with a 1/136,787 chance of dying at the hand lover last year, which means that out of 136,787 women 136,786 did not die......and by the way just as many guys died from intimate partner violence if you count the suicides (5) so lets please end the pity party for women....lets stop demonizing men....in spite of what Joe Biden says about how nasty men are.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:40 am
@msolga,
Quote:
You are the one (along with your friend) who is refusing to address a very real issue.


Sorry I had been very focus on the issue of how the justice system is now using a shotgun and no human judgment allow approach to domestic violence and as a result are harming families including the children in many cases without need.

By the way women are also coming aware that the police will no longer act as peace makers in a minor family fight so they had lost that resource.

All that a call even in a minor situation is likely to do is cause the bread winner and father of the family to be ban from the family again the wishes and the needs of the woman.

Somehow I do not think that this is all that helpful in fighting violence inside the home.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 04:41 am
@msolga,
Quote:
BUT, on THIS thread I was talking about domestic violence, against women & children
Which makes this thread deeply flawed because domestic violence is almost always a two person dynamic, both people drive it, and it takes both people to end it if they are to stay together. It also indicates a willingness to discount the pain and suffering of men, because according to you we are only allowed to talk about the pain and suffering of women and children. I am well aware that the conversation is normally set up this way because the feminists run sex and family violence law, and they find this framing useful for driving their political agenda which is pegged to everything wrong being the fault of men, but come on now........haven't we been chumps for long enough? Haven't we bashed men enough yet for what ever crimes our fathers and grandfathers committed so that we can move on now?
Dosed
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 08:30 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
BUT, on THIS thread I was talking about domestic violence, against women & children
Which makes this thread deeply flawed because domestic violence is almost always a two person dynamic, both people drive it, and it takes both people to end it if they are to stay together. It also indicates a willingness to discount the pain and suffering of men, because according to you we are only allowed to talk about the pain and suffering of women and children. I am well aware that the conversation is normally set up this way because the feminists run sex and family violence law, and they find this framing useful for driving their political agenda which is pegged to everything wrong being the fault of men, but come on now........haven't we been chumps for long enough? Haven't we bashed men enough yet for what ever crimes our fathers and grandfathers committed so that we can move on now?


lol.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 09:55 am
@Dosed,
Quote:
lol.


This LOL is from a 21 years old women study student............

One Wonder what her opinions will be once she is growth and had been in a relationship for a few years?
Dosed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 10:13 am
@BillRM,
I'm a student of sociology and philosophy first. Those are my two majors. Women's and Gender Studies is my minor. I like how you only mention the part that is convenient for your ridiculous arguments.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 10:33 am
@Dosed,
Quote:
Women's and Gender Studies is my minor


LOL I can understand why you would wish to downplay that part of your education considering the discredit snake pits those programs had become on most campuses.

Please refer to the statements and actions in the Duke players "rape" case by the professors of the women study group on that campus.

You know the case where no rape had occur and now the poor "victim" of the non-rape is in jail on an unrelated murder charge.

Should we also address the surveys from those departments that greatly and I mean greatly pumps up numbers concerning sexual assaults on college campuses listing women as victims of sexual assaults where 80 to 90 percents of the women so listed disagree with being so label and over 40 percents having ongoing sexual relationships with their so call attackers?

No I guess not as we did that in details in the rape thread so why turn over the same ground once more?
Dosed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 10:37 am
@BillRM,
What did you study in college? Just curious.
Dosed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 10:39 am
@BillRM,
also bill, I'm tired of playing name calling games with you and hawkeye.

If you can present to me a valid source (like, peer reviewed. perhaps from a scholarly journal--you know, the kinds of articles that students are assigned to read in universities) that shows your arguments, I'll be more than happy to talk to you. But you don't present information like that. You present wrong information. Very wrong information.

 

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