10
   

Why Women Stay in Abusive Relationships

 
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 03:44 pm
@Mame,
Quote:

Are you suggesting that you have the RIGHT to smack your wife

Don't forget, Mame, that Hawkeye is into BDSM--so, he finds a certain amount of physical abuse sexually exciting and sexually arrousing. Unfortunately, his preoccupation with his sexual needs also prevents him from discussing the topic of domestic abuse/violence with any degree of objectivity.

Yes, he does feel he has the right to hit his wife, and he sees nothing wrong with hitting her.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 03:48 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Yes, he does feel he has the right to hit his wife, and he sees nothing wrong with hitting her
She already has multible remedies if she decides that I have done her wrong, government control is not wanted, not needed, and is a violation of our rights to conduct our affairs as we see fit.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 03:53 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Unfortunately, his preoccupation with his sexual needs also prevents him from discussing the topic of domestic abuse/violence with any degree of objectivity
Anytime that you are ready to talk about what the defintion of domestic abuse is, what it should be, who gets to decide according to the law, and what the limits are to the states rights to look into and punish this human activity and I ready to go....
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 05:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
What I love is that we now grant the police the power to come into someone home even on the complain of a neighbor and on their judgment arrest one or both of a married couple against the wishes of both of them. Hell it is now required by police procudures on such calls, for the most part, that at least one member of a couple will be arrested.

After that a judge will issue a no contact order also in many cases against the wishes of both parties and we then end up with a married couple that can not even talk to each other for months on end as the case wind it way thought the court system. Oh and we then add the no drop policy so it is highly unlikely no matter what the facts turn out to be after a charge had been level it will end up either in a court trial months into the future or a plea deal.

Many times if the man and it is mostly the man will just pleas out just to do away with the no contract order so he can see his wife and kids.

Once my wife had a medical condition that required blood thinners and she had so many black and blue marks that I used to tease her that she could have me arrested at her whim.

God help both of us if we had gotten into a verbal fight and a neighbor had complain to the police.

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 06:06 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
What I love is that we now grant the police the power to come into someone home even on the complain of a neighbor and on their judgment arrest one or both of a married couple against the wishes of both of them. Hell it is now required by police procudures on such calls, for the most part, that at least one member of a couple will be arrested.
Both the interfering in a relationship when niegther party has requested it and the multi million taxpayer dollars per year efforts to reshape opinions and to convince women to identify themselves as victims are offensive and are gross government overreach into the rights of the citizens. The feminists will claim straight up that there is no such thing as personal life shielded from government inspection when the choices made run counter to the choices that they want us to make. So far all three branches of the federal government has agreed....which adds another amoungst many reasons to conclude that the Supreme Court has failed its duties to protect the rights of the citizens.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 08:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Anytime that you are ready to talk about what the defintion of domestic abuse is, what it should be, who gets to decide according to the law, and what the limits are to the states rights to look into and punish this human activity

Gee, Hawkeye, a smart guy like you can't even use Google. Rolling Eyes
This is for the state you live in....the state of Washington.
Quote:
Domestic violence laws specify behaviors against a spouse or intimate partner that are considered crimes. These behaviors include physical, psychological, and sexual abuse; harassment; stalking; and destroying property, among others. Domestic violence laws vary from state to state; this guide focuses on Washington State laws.

How domestic violence laws can help

Both the criminal and civil legal system offer some protection against domestic violence.

A protection order is a civil order that restricts someone accused of domestic violence from harming, harassing, or contacting the victim. In Washington State, you do not need a lawyer to get a protection order. The court issues a temporary order once you document the facts that support your charge. The sheriff delivers a copy of the order to the person the order is filed against. A hearing for a final order occurs two weeks later.

If a person was physically attacked, sexually assaulted, threatened with a weapon, or had property damaged or stolen by an intimate partner, he or she may file criminal charges with the police. Criminal charges may be filed whether or not a protection order has been approved.

If you file charges in Washington State, you may have to go to court to testify. The court may provide an advocate to help you through your case. Because a hearing can take several months to come to trial, the court can grant a no-contact order if you fear the perpetrator may hurt you again. This order prohibits the perpetrator from having any contact with you before the trial.

According to a federal mandate, protection orders must be enforced in every state. This prevents perpetrators from going across state lines to abuse, threaten, stalk, or commit other acts of domestic violence.

Domestic violence laws in Washington State

Washington State defines domestic violence as criminal acts committed by one family or household member against a spouse, former spouse, present or former cohabitant, or a person with whom the perpetrator has had a child. Criminal acts committed by individuals 16 years of age or older against a person they are dating or have dated can also be considered domestic violence.

Crimes of domestic violence in Washington can include the following acts when willfully committed by one family or household member against another:

- Assault

- Manslaughter or murder

- Reckless endangerment

- Drive-by shooting

- Coercion

- Burglary

- Criminal trespass

- Property damage

- Kidnapping

- Interfering with the reporting of domestic violence

- Rape

- Violation of protection order

- Stalking or cyber stalking

- False imprisonment

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/Domestic-violence-Washington


It is the state of Washington that defines each of those criminal acts. They have the authority to investigate and bring criminal charges.

I am not interested in further discussion of these laws. It is sufficient that each state defines domestic violence, defines each of the criminal acts, and has laws to punish transgressions. I accept the state definitions of these crimes.

The topic of this thread is why women remain in abusive relationships. I prefer to address the topic.
Quote:
Barriers to victims leaving

1. Perpetrator violence

Perpetrator’s escalating violence and control.

2. Economic barriers

Lack of housing, loss of income for self and children, loss of health, transportation, or other resources.

3. Protection of the children

Connection to the perpetrator through the perpetrator’s access to the children.

4. Lack of support

Religious, cultural, or family values that the family unit must be preserved at all costs; or victim blaming by service providers, law enforcement, or the courts.

5.Effects of trauma

Immobilization by psychological and physical trauma.

6. Inadequacy of court response

Failure of court to hold perpetrators accountable or protect victims.

http://www.courts.wa.gov/dv/?fa=dv.guide#a9





ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 08:11 pm
@lashawndallas,
lashawndallas wrote:

Maybe you're the abuser...what happened to you in your childhood (because that is where the root started) that would cause you to degrade women in such a fashion. Do you hate yourself? Most men who abuse women have been neglected or abused themselves; and the only way that they know how to get satisfaction from what they have experienced is to take out their frustrations on the person that they are with.

Many couples don't realize this, but abuse is an illness! The behavior of an abuser originates from a place of pain and suffering; and it has must be dealt with or the behavior will continue. I have known men who have abused their wives physically and verbally because of what they saw in the interactions between their own parents. And if the victimized child does not receive the help, or the guidance that is needed, there is a possibility that the child will grow up and duplicate what he saw.



0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 08:14 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The topic of this thread is why women remain in abusive relationships. I prefer to address the topic.
Predictably every reason you give for staying with an "abuser" has the person in the role of victim. At least there has been some fresh air in this thread where people have pointed out reasons that move beyond the victim culture conceptualization of life. It would kill you to have to admit that women of strong mind make choices that do not conform to what you want them to do, that what you view as their wrong choices are their fault. I doubt that you have any use for men at all other than to pin blame on.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 08:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
It would kill you to have to admit that women of strong mind make choices that do not conform to what you want them to do,

Do you think that "normal" men of "strong mind" choose to be in relationships with abusive females? Why do you think that men stay in abusive relationships where they are the ones being abused?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 08:31 pm
Now that the feminists have lost the ability to bully scientists into not poking around their assertions we are finding out all kinds of interesting things
Quote:
But a considerable number of women felt their abusive male partners still possessed some good qualities: More than half (54 percent) saw their partners as highly dependable, while one in five (21 percent) felt the men in their lives possessed significant positive traits (i.e., being affectionate).

Based on the survey findings, the researchers divided the male abusers into three groups: "Dependable, yet abusive" men (44 percent of the sample) had the lowest scores for controlling and generally violent behaviors, and the highest scores for dependability and positive traits.

"Positive and controlling" men (38 percent of the sample) had moderately high scores for violence and also for dependability and positive traits. However, they were more controlling than men in the first group, displaying significantly higher levels of generally violent behaviors.

"Dangerously abusive" men (18 percent of the sample) had the highest scores for violence, controlling behavior and legal problems and the lowest scores for dependability and positive traits.

The researchers say their findings suggest there is value in studying the problem of male violence through the perceptions of abused women, including those who are currently "outside" the social services and legal systems designed to help them.

"The importance of listening to women's voices cannot be highlighted enough and needs further exploration," says O'Campo.

http://www.livescience.com/8202-women-stay-abusive-relationships.html

and I know for a fact that these women tend to have nothing but contempt for Firefly types who come around claiming that they are so traumatized that they can not see straight, that they need to be helped to see the light, which of course is the "it is all men's fault" line of thinking...
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 08:37 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Do you think that "normal" men choose to be in relationships with abusive females? Why do you think that men stay in abusive relationships?
What do you mean by abuse? We live in a time where to speak in angry tones to your spouse is sometimes considered abuse, so I need to have some idea of where you draw the line between the right of the actor to express him/herself and the right of the intended recipient of the communication to demand that they not be confronted. You have already claimed that coercion is abuse so I know my definition is not the same as yours.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 09:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
and I know for a fact that these women tend to have nothing but contempt for Firefly types who come around claiming that they are so traumatized that they can not see straight, that they need to be helped to see the light, which of course is the "it is all men's fault" line of thinking...

Oh get off it! Your BS is stinking up the room. I have never defined or described victims of domestic violence in those terms. You are so out of gas in making your arguments that you are reverting to using your usual strawmen. Sorry, I'm not willing to accommodate you in that regard.

Look, we are discussing an issue, domestic violence/abuse, which can result in the brutalization, terrorization, and even death, of a partner in that sort of situation. Should any person, male or female, remain in a relationship under such potentially life-threatening conditions? I think not, but that is only my opinion. But there are obviously many factors which might prevent a person from leaving a situation which they may genuinely desire to leave, and I've already indicated what some of those factors might be. And, in addition, attempts to leave, or actual separation, may drastically increase the danger to the fleeing partner.

I remember a case in my area from several years ago. A woman had been abused by her boyfriend and she obtained an Order of Protection to keep him away from her. He continued to harass and threaten her as well as follow her. She knew he intended to kill her and, in desperation, she drove to a police station with him following her. As she tried to run up the outside stairs, to get into the police station, he shot and killed her.
This incident provoked considerable discussion in my neck of the woods about the ineffectiveness of Orders of Protection to adequately protect victims of domestic violence. This woman knew this man would kill her and there was damn little she could do to stop him, and really damn little the police or courts could (or would) do either.
Some women in abusive relationships know that too, and fear of the partner, and fear for their lives, will keep them in the relationship.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 09:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
What do you mean by abuse?

You have reading comprehension problems now? I posted the definition of domestic violence for the state in which you live. I really suggest you read it again.
Quote:
You have already claimed that coercion is abuse so I know my definition is not the same as yours

The state of Washington includes the crime of coercion under domestic abuse. That's not my definition, it is the state's definition and I am willing to accept it. If you want to know how your state defines the crime of coercion, go look it up. I'm not going to play your nonsense games.

I repeat my question:

Do you think that "normal" men choose to be in relationships with abusive females? Why do you think that men stay in abusive relationships?


How come you are gushing comments and explanations when the abused person is female, but you cannot address the same issue when the person being abused in the relationship is male? Do you think these men are seeking to be abused? Getting what they want by being abused?
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 09:45 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
How come you are gushing comments and explanations when the abused person is female, but you cannot address the same issue when the person being abused in the relationship is male? Do you think these men are seeking to be abused? Getting what they want by being abused?
I dont care what the State says, as you well know, so when I answer the question it is based upon the perception of the person in the relationship. We have some sense about the controlling/physical manipulation that men engage in that women often perceive as abuse, so when we are told that a female perceives abuse we have at least guess what they are talking about. With men all this changes, female generated abuse tends to be verbal and emotional, and men tend to not consider that abuse but rather her being a bitch...it is about her being defective but not about her doing something to him for which he has a right to object to. So if you are going to ask a question about how men deal with abuse you need to define what you are talking about first.

This business about men dont speak up about abuse because of custom or shame is bullshit...more often then not men dont speak up because they dont think that they have anything to speak up about. Women are naturally bitches a lot of the time, it comes with the territory. That is why we say we can't live with them, and can't live without them.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 10:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Women are naturally bitches a lot of the time, it comes with the territory. That is why we say we can't live with them, and can't live without them.


Well, that's certainly a new low, but maybe not for you. Wow.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 10:13 pm
@Mame,
Mame wrote:


Well, that's certainly a new low, but maybe not for you. Wow.


I'll bet you are sugar and spice and everything nice.....
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 10:40 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye said:
Quote:

But no, you just go on and on with this big lie that domestic violence is cause by men and that the women get the worst of it. It is a damn shame that feminists have gotten away with this willful distortion of the facts in pursuit of their political agenda for so long, but now that the mens rights groups are rising maybe we can do something about that. And I think it is time to call out that feminists have proven themselves to be cold heartless lying bitches as well, with absolutely no interest in honesty nor in the wellbeing of men.


My, my, that earlier post of yours certainly did sound as though you thought there was a very real problem with domestic violence directed toward men by their female partners. And those darned "feminists" were "cold heartless lying bitches...with absolutely no interest in the wellbeing of men".

But, abject liar that you are, Hawkeye, it now turns out that this terrible "domestic violence" that affects "the wellbeing of men" is....(drumroll)....nothing more serious than the emotional strain of living with a bitchy woman. Awww...those cold, heartless, feminist bitches don't realize how difficult that is for a man...sniff...sniff...pass the tissues...
Quote:
With men all this changes, female generated abuse tends to be verbal and emotional, and men tend to not consider that abuse but rather her being a bitch...it is about her being defective but not about her doing something to him for which he has a right to object to...This business about men dont speak up about abuse because of custom or shame is bullshit...more often then not men dont speak up because they dont think that they have anything to speak up about. Women are naturally bitches a lot of the time, it comes with the territory

It's nice to know that you don't think men are really being victimized, or physically harmed, by actual domestic violence. They simply have to put up with some bitchiness, and that's no big deal because all "women are naturally bitches a lot of the time".

Well, then domestic violence really is a "woman's issue" isn't it? Women put up with a lot more than their partner's bad moods or verbal abuse--like smashed noses, broken bones, black eyes, knocked out teeth, miscarriages from beatings, brain damage from head trauma, and, sometimes, even their premature deaths. Guess that's why those "feminists" have to make such a stink about it, and call for more shelters for battered women and better supportive services for those trying to get out of violent and abusive relationships, because women are actually being battered, and sometimes killed, by their partners. Women, and not just feminists, do take the issue of domestic violence quite seriously.

You never disappoint, Hawkeye. You always manage to prove what an asshole you are. And a rather boring asshole to boot. I've wasted enough time with you.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 11:02 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
domestic violence" that affects "the wellbeing of men
I did not say that domestic violence effects the well being of men, I said that feminists dont give a **** about the well being of men, which as you know is a common complaint about feminists.
Quote:
It's nice to know that you don't think men are really being victimized, or physically harmed, by actual domestic violence. They simply have to put up with some bitchiness, and that's no big deal because all "women are naturally bitches a lot of the time".
I did not say that this was my opinion, I said that I was speaking for all men, how men perceive the situation which explains why men act the way they do.
Quote:
Women, and not just feminists, do take the issue of domestic violence quite seriously.
No where as seriously as feminists want them too....there has been a constant and loud conplaint from the feminist camps about how slowly perceptions amongst women are changing, why there has been so little progress towards getting women to report the alleged crimes of men and to parrot the feminists anti-male talking points.

Quote:
I've wasted enough time with you.
So you have announced many times, but you keep coming back, I think because you know my argument and my documentation are too good to ignore, and so you know that you need to confront mens rights advocates such as myself or else you stand no chance of maintaining your male bashing agenda.
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 02:50 am
@hawkeye10,
Often when there is abuse against a woman, there is also abuse against the children in that home environment.
I think that such (all too common occurrences) should be taken into account in discussions like this.
In many instances whole families are abused by one aggressive, sometimes violent, family member. Not just one member of the family is affected or damaged by the abuse.
All too common situations like this are much more than simply a "feminist" issue.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 03:34 am
@msolga,
It sure is a family issue with special note on how families are routinely order apart again the wishes of both the man and the woman and before any one is found guilty of any crime of any nature.
 

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