21
   

Why is sexual abuse of boys not taken seriously

 
 
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 08:33 pm
if it is commited by a woman?

Keep your "jokes" to yourself.

As the mother of a son I'm dead serious about this.

If it's done by a man everyone gets bent out of shape. But if it's done by a woman we seem to be very forgiving.

What is up with this nonsense?
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Type: Question • Score: 21 • Views: 15,510 • Replies: 248

 
ebrown p
 
  3  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 08:39 pm
@boomerang,
I absolutely agree with you, Boomerang. The worst part is the idea that a boy abused by an adult woman is "lucky" which makes dealing with the damage far more difficult.

Society should treat any type of sexual abuse equally seriously.



0 Replies
 
sullyfish6
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 08:49 pm
It is taken seriously, but it's more lax. Boys 14 and over are prime bait for women who want a boy-toy. Some of these "kids" are over 6 ft. tall and are very worldly. The immature woman sees them as a peer-challenge not as the adult-child relationship it really is.

DrewDad
 
  6  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:08 pm
@sullyfish6,
sullyfish6 wrote:
Some of these "kids" are over 6 ft. tall and are very worldly.

That sounds just like the excuses male pedophiles make about teenage girls.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  3  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:23 pm
@boomerang,
It's taken bloody seriously by me and my colleagues I can tell you.

I think it's mostly men who don't take it seriously.

You know...the MILF thing etc.

If we are referring to older boys....adolescents...I think the more primitive male attitude is often that men score with women, (ie getting a woman into bed is a triumph for the male) and if an older adolescent boy has had sex with an older woman, he has just struck it lucky and scored...fulfilling a popular fantasy.

With a little kid.....I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't think even really primitive males are forgiving about that.

They sure get treated similarly under the law here.....re little kids and underage boys.

Attitudes are another thing.


ebrown p
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:33 pm
@dlowan,
Quote:
If we are referring to older boys....adolescents...I think the more primitive male attitude is often that men score with women, (ie getting a woman into bed is a triumph for the male) and if an older adolescent boy has had sex with an older woman, he has just struck it lucky and scored...fulfilling a popular fantasy.


Blech!

"Primitive male attitude?" As if there isn't an equivalent Lolita stereotype (i.e. "popular fantasy") of the adolescent girl seducing the older man.

It is these harmful sexual stereotypes-- that portray male sexuality as "primitive", that make sexual abuse so damaging to boys.

Evidently primitive females aren't too understanding either.
Robert Gentel
 
  8  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:53 pm
@boomerang,
Because of the stereotype that for men all sex (with women at least) is good, even when it's bad. And that when men have sex they "score", while for women they "gave it up".

It's a stereotype that has some basis in legitimacy with adolescent boys. The guys who I know who were molested by women as teenagers don't tend to view it negatively as often as the girls who were molested by men. But some do and I have zero tolerance for it, and when folk like David here talk about how it's not abuse just because they didn't mind it themselves it makes me sad. A kid I knew committed suicide because of this, and the standard machismo about how they were "lucky" to "score" strikes me as an adolescent (and yes predominantly male, ebrown) mentality.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  5  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:57 pm
This is a subject about which i get very exercised. Maybe the bullshit will clear away, and we can get a decent discussion going.

One of the problems with the sexual abuse of per-adolescent boys is that society has long had a different standard for parental behavior. Beyond a certain, very young age, fathers would not bathe their daughters. Mothers, however, get a free pass in matters such as this. I've seen mothers dragging protesting boys who were far too old into a women's rest room--i cannot think that any man would ever consider taking their daughter into a men's rest room. I've known of women, many women, who would not scruple to take their boys into the women's bath house at a beach. I've known families in which boys had absolutely no privacy from adult females, and even including older sisters. If a woman were intent on the abuse of a boy, especially a small boy, opportunity might well be greater, and motive might not be suspect.

I will add the caveat that i was raised in the 1950s, and though we were fairly well off, many of my acquaintance in a small town lived cheek by jowl in large families just getting by in houses that weren't roomy, and in which there were not separate bedrooms for each child. But, by and large, it was my experience then that there was a different standard for the acceptable behavior of women as opposed to that for men. I suggest that there has long been a perception, at least among the non-professional community, that it's the men you have to worry about around children, not the women. At the same time, in the era in which i grew up, women were also seen as the chief cook and bottle washer, the family nurse and the maid of all work--so, much of the attitude may have derived from the expectations people had of women, expectations considerably different from those which were held about men.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:19 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I've seen mothers dragging protesting boys who were far too old into a women's rest room--i cannot think that any man would ever consider taking their daughter into a men's rest room.


I actually remember seeing this far too often. Hell one of the most embarrassing moments of my life was when my dad marched with my sister into the women's restroom when a mall guard insisted that she was too old to be going into the men's restroom. I wanted to die.

Quote:
I suggest that there has long been a perception, at least among the non-professional community, that it's the men you have to worry about around children, not the women.


Not just children, there is a wide perception that men are more sexually perverted than women. I think a lot of it has its basis in biology. Women have always paid a higher sexual price than have men. The men don't get pregnant by their rapists, and most of the time don't get physically injured, and contract diseases at a lesser frequency.

This isn't meant to justify abuse by women by any means, but I think there are strong biological reasons that people hold these ignorant attitudes and that they deserve recognition. For example, the necessity for the male to be sexually aroused is a biological detail that influences how many perceive the rape of males ("how can it be rape if he was into it?"). So is the comparative strength of men versus women ("sir, you are saying your wife raped you?) and the difference in libido.

That there is a biological foundation to much of these attitudes is, in my opinion, partly responsible for why these notions persist in civilized society.
dlowan
 
  6  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:26 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
If we are referring to older boys....adolescents...I think the more primitive male attitude is often that men score with women, (ie getting a woman into bed is a triumph for the male) and if an older adolescent boy has had sex with an older woman, he has just struck it lucky and scored...fulfilling a popular fantasy.


Blech!

"Primitive male attitude?" As if there isn't an equivalent Lolita stereotype (i.e. "popular fantasy") of the adolescent girl seducing the older man.

It is these harmful sexual stereotypes-- that portray male sexuality as "primitive", that make sexual abuse so damaging to boys.

Evidently primitive females aren't too understanding either.






If you read my note you might have understood that by primitive I referred to to attitudes held by ignorant males, not to male sexuality as necessarily primitive.

If you don't believe me, just have a look at how many threads there are right here where males speak of older male pupils having sex with the female teacher, for example, as a great adventure for the boy, while condemning a male teacher having sex with a female student.



The Loliita fantasy you mis-name is a male one of the sexually eager young girl. It is Humbert who imagines Lolita is eager for him.

******* old guys is not an especially popular female fantasy.

Old guys wanting to **** young girls is.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:29 pm
This topic is way out of my league, but I'm bookmarking to read along.
K
O
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:31 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Many people are unaware that fear can cause erections as well as sexual stimulation. My Keltic ancestors would go into battle naked, and having a prominent erection was considered to be a sign of manly courage--when in fact, it may have only meant that the individual concerned was scared shitless, and i consider that to be the most reasonable response to the prospect of trading blows with another naked man with a 15 lb. bronze sword.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:34 pm
@Setanta,
One of the reasons for that, and I agree it is embarrassing and awful for an older boy, is fear of the male sex offender abusing a boy when he is alone in male toilets etc.

Unfortunately, this happens often enough to make it a not un-reasonable fear.


And, as far as anyone is able to tell, there ARE less female sex offenders.

That doesn't mean that one is not aware of and protective re the possibility.

It's a dilemma here when I take young male clients to the loo.

If they are comfortable to use the women's, I accompany them into the female loo...not into the cubicle of course!

If they are not, we see enough kids abused by strange men in toilets, that I actually check the male toilet is empty, and then wait outside the door for the client.





Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:37 pm
@dlowan,
Quote:
If they are not, we see enough kids abused by strange men in toilets, that I actually check the male toilet is empty, and then wait outside the door for the client.


This is a good point, and i hadn't thought of it when i posted. The bathhouse thing, though, is a different story. However, something that horribly sickened me several years ago was when a woman waited outside an outdoor men's rest room for her son, who was gagged, raped and murdered inside while she waited.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:48 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Quote:
If they are not, we see enough kids abused by strange men in toilets, that I actually check the male toilet is empty, and then wait outside the door for the client.


This is a good point, and i hadn't thought of it when i posted. The bathhouse thing, though, is a different story. However, something that horribly sickened me several years ago was when a woman waited outside an outdoor men's rest room for her son, who was gagged, raped and murdered inside while she waited.


I am not sure what you mean by bath house?

I had thought you meant changing rooms by pools/the beach.


I would be quite concerned about allowing a boy in my care into a male changing room by himself....but less concerned because it is more public.

Yes, we have had kids raped, and some murdered, while mums wait outside male (or disabled) toilets. Disabled are a new paedophile haunt, as parents feel safe sending kids there, since they are single. Sadly, a bunch of male paedophiles here have learned this, and lurk out of sight behind the door, where a parent's quick glance does not reveal them. if an adult comes in...well, they just finished washing their hands.


If bath houses are sex segregated places where people go to get naked and bathe, well, there is certainly a boundary re this for kids with opposite sex parents etc.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:53 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

if it is commited by a woman?

Keep your "jokes" to yourself.

As the mother of a son I'm dead serious about this.

If it's done by a man everyone gets bent out of shape. But if it's done by a woman we seem to be very forgiving.

What is up with this nonsense?


Boomer, who, exactly, are you accusing of seeing sexual abuse by women of males as a joke?


As I have said, my experience has been that is is un-sophisticated males who think this.

It is CERTAINLY not a professional attitude, and not one I have experienced among women, at least so far.

I am sure there are women stupid enough to think this....I just just haven't come across them.

I am wondering what has triggered this?
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:58 pm
@dlowan,
think it prolly got provoked here, bun...

http://able2know.org/topic/136017-1#post-3749691
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 11:00 pm
@dlowan,
Quote:
I had thought you meant changing rooms by pools/the beach.


Yes, that is what i meant. I have myself been dragged into a women's changing room, which we used to call a bath house (i guess because it was located at a place where people did recreational bathing), when i was as i then considered, too old to be there. This meant that women were changing their clothes there without compunction in my presence, and i was expected to do the same. I have a mania about my privacy as a result of this, and what i have considered to be unacceptable incidents about privacy in the bathroom (WC) at home.
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 11:00 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Many people are unaware that fear can cause erections as well as sexual stimulation. My Keltic ancestors would go into battle naked, and having a prominent erection was considered to be a sign of manly courage--when in fact, it may have only meant that the individual concerned was scared shitless, and i consider that to be the most reasonable response to the prospect of trading blows with another naked man with a 15 lb. bronze sword.




Dangly bits tend to respond to stimulation...male or female.

One of the hardest things for victims of non-violent sexual abuse, male and female, is often that they experienced physical (and, in the case of lonely kids who are well groomed by the offender) emotional pleasure in the abuse.

This is frequently the biggest hurdle to help them deal with in therapy.

0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 11:03 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Quote:
I had thought you meant changing rooms by pools/the beach.


Yes, that is what i meant. I have myself been dragged into a women's changing room, which we used to call a bath house (i guess because it was located at a place where people did recreational bathing), when i was as i then considered, too old to be there. This meant that women were changing their clothes there without compunction in my presence, and i was expected to do the same. I have a mania about my privacy as a result of this, and what i have considered to be unacceptable incidents about privacy in the bathroom (WC) at home.


I'd likely have let you in the men's changing room and bitten my nails outside, but tried not to let you see that I was anxious!!!

We're exceptionally paranoid where I work, of course......but that ought not to mean one's kids have to suffer from one's paranoia.
0 Replies
 
 

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