Which Atheism is the One True Atheism?

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Ah, so god can do anything he wants with humans, because ..... (10,000 excuses), since he knows who will agree or not agree. Since he already knows who will sin and not sin, why not just kill all of those he knows will sin? Especially people like Gaddafi? He seems not too concerned about the millions of innocents that die from different "natural" and man-made causes.

So all those babies that die at birth were guilty of what, exactly? Was there any chance Mary could have miscarried Jesus? Or did god intervene there too?

CI, CI. You know god has set a test for the human race as a whole. If you decide to walk in front of a freight train, he is not going to help you. He does not force his will upon humans, because humans are free agents, with the need to take care of themselves. If natural forces cause an innocent person to suffer or die, it is natural attrition. But, he will take care of his own, with heavenly rewards.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Why is it that we keep hearing that the "bible is the word of god." Is it or isn't it?

Who claims God wrote the Bible? Did God write both the Old and New Testaments?

The Bible has been written and re-written--by men.

The only reference to the literal word of God would probably pertain to the Torah.

Quote:

The various denominations of Judaism and Christianity hold a diverse spectrum of views regarding the exactitude of scripture. The Torah has also been accepted to varying degrees by the Samaritans, an ethnoreligious group of the Levant, and others as the authentic revealed message of YHWH to the early Israelites and as factual history, in both cases as conveyed by Moses. It is also accepted by Muslims as a Divine book, though they think it was modified after the death of Moses...

The Talmud says that God dictated four books of the Torah, but that Moses wrote Deuteronomy in his own words (Talmud Bavli, Meg. 31b)...

All classical rabbinic views hold that the Torah was entirely or almost entirely Mosaic (pertaining to Moses) and of divine origin...

Christians often refer to the Torah as the Pentateuch, meaning five books, or as the Law, or Law of Moses. Muslims refers to the Torah as "Tawrat" (توراة, "Law"), an Arabic word for the revelations given to the Islamic prophet "Musa" (موسى, Moses in Arabic).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

Interpretations of the Torah, or Pentateuch, or Tawrat, are ongoing and constant.

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@firefly,

So the bible is not the word of god directly or indirectly so no one can base their faith on it.

Good you are becoming an atheist.

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@BillRM,

If you want to discuss theology, and the Bible in particular, you really should have better knowledge of the subject matter. You are simply displaying ignorance.

Talking about rape and DNA regarding the birth of Jesus is deliberately childish on your part. You do not have to accept any Biblical notions of "miracles", but that is the conceptual framework given in the Bible for the birth of Jesus. Either you accept a notion of miraculous conception, or you don't. Again, this is a matter of faith--not science, not logic, but of faith. If you don't want to believe it, then don't believe it. But it is idiotic to discuss a theological concept in the terms you are using.

According to the New Testament, Jesus was not born of a sexual act--there was no sexual intercourse, no sperm was involved--it was a miraculous conception.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

If natural forces cause an innocent person to suffer or die, it is natural attrition. But, he will take care of his own, with heavenly rewards.

How nice of the evil old man.

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@firefly,

Quote:

not science, not logic, but of faith. If you don't want to believe it, then don't believe it. But it is idiotic to discuss a theological concept in the terms you are using.

I had been working in your fantasy land and no matter how she had Jesus without her clear permission before hand it is rape.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Good you are becoming an atheist

How do you know I'm not an atheist? Or a Baptist? Or a Jew? Or a Buddhist? or an Episcopalian? Or a Pagan?

Have I mentioned any of my own personal beliefs?

You just can't believe that some people are able to discuss a subject objectively, without any personal stake in the topic.

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@firefly,

Quote:

You just can't believe that some people are able to discuss a subject objectively, without any personal stake in the topic.

Given you had been your normal dishonest self you are indeed a stakeholder in this silliness.

I read the bible from cover to cover but I did not know that god order the killing of children or homosexuals give me a break Firefly.

However if you are taking the position that the bible have no connection with god then you are not a Christian.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

However if you are taking the position that the bible have no connection with god then you are not a Christian.

That wasn't the position I took. You seem not to understand my posts.

I never said the Bible had no connection to God. Obviously, a good part of it is about God.

You are too uninformed to be able to hold up your end of a serious and meaningful theological discussion on this topic.

Quote:

Given you had been your normal dishonest self you are indeed a stakeholder in this silliness.

I don't think I have ever been dishonest in anything I've ever posted at A2K.
That you can't refrain from juvenile name calling is rather pathetic. And it doesn't help to conceal your ignorance regarding theology. It's not interesting, or fun, to discuss a topic with someone who seems pretty ignorant of the topic.

You're selling atheism, I'm not trying to sell anything.

Other people's faith doesn't bother me, and a lack of faith doesn't bother me.

See ya.

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@firefly,

Theological discussion without using what are obvious contradictions in the bible is not logical or has much meaning in real life. How many twists and turns must one make to accept all the errors, omissions, and contradictions in the bible? How is one able to have an intellectual discussion when theologians themselves have difficulty with interpretations that are consistent in meaning?

The ball seems to be in your part of the court.

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@firefly,

Firefly is the words in the bible written by men under the direct influence of the one true god or not in your opinion?

If it just religion figures who writings was then compiled and name the bible then it had far less meaning then most Christians grant it.

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@BillRM,

Go back and read what I posted about the Torah. In fact, click on the link I posted and read the entire article.

As far as I know, that is the only portion of the Bible where there is some claim of divine attribution.

This is what I mean--you are too ignorant of the topic to discuss it knowledgeably, and I'm not interested in trying to educate you.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Theological discussion without using what are obvious contradictions in the bible is not logical or has much meaning in real life. How many twists and turns must one make to accept all the errors, omissions, and contradictions in the bible? How is one able to have an intellectual discussion when theologians themselves have difficulty with interpretations that are consistent in meaning?

The Bible consists of both The Old and New Testaments, it had many different authors, different parts were written at different times, it has been constantly revised and translated from it's original languages. How consistent do you expect it to be? Laughing

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@firefly,

If it's god's words, almost perfect is my expectation. God should have helped those poor souls who took on the responsibility to translate the bible - so many times. That in of itself makes the bible suspect.

Can you show us how all those different translations created all of those errors, omissions, and contradictions?

It would seem all those theologians working on the bible could have "cleaned it up" by now.

They're doing a much better job with Harry Potter that's been translated into 64 languages. They don't seem to have any of those problems associated with the bible. Can you tell us why?

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@firefly,

OK Firefly you share my opinion that the bible have zero claim to creditability and therefore no one is justify in falling back on it for support in religion matters.

It is just in fact an interesting but as far as human understanding of the universe is concern a worthless book.

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@cicerone imposter,

CI it would seem that firefly had admitted that the bible is just a large work of religion fiction.

Given that arguments concerning it internal logic and meanings with her is pointless.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
not science, not logic, but of faith. If you don't want to believe it, then don't believe it. But it is idiotic to discuss a theological concept in the terms you are using.

I had been working in your fantasy land and no matter how she had Jesus without her clear permission before hand it is rape.

Come on. Try to maintain a level civility. The question of rape endlessly pushed at us is not reasonable.

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@edgarblythe,

Sorry but anyone god or not that used a woman womb without her clear permission ahead of time is a rapist.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Sorry but anyone god or not that used a woman womb without her clear permission ahead of time is a rapist.

You are not thinking, just trying to push people's buttons. You must come up with something better to get further responses from me.

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Which Atheism is the One True Atheism?

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