Another day when there is no God

Ah. Forgot to mark my calendar. I thought that was tomorrow...

Monday, nothing
Tuesday, nothing
Wednesday and Thursday nothing
Friday, for a change
a little more nothing
Saturday once more nothing
Sunday nothing
Monday nothing
Tuesday and Wednesday nothing
Thursday, for a change
a little more nothing
Friday once more nothing
Montik gornisht,
Dinstik Gornisht
Midwoch an Donnerstik gornisht
Fritik, far a noveneh gornisht pikveleh
Shabas nach a mool gornisht
Lunes nada
Martes nada
Miercoles y Jueves nada
Viernes, por cambia
un poco mas nada
Sabado otra vez nada
January nothing
February nothing
March and April nothing
May and June
a lot more nothing
July nothing
'29 nothing
'32 nothing
'39, '45 nothing
1965 a whole lot of nothing
1966 nothing
reading nothing
writing nothing
even arithmetic nothing
geography, philosophy, history, nothing
social anthropology a lot of nothing
oh, Village Voice nothing
New Yorker nothing
Sing Out and Folkways nothing
Harry Smith and Allen Ginsberg
nothing, nothing, nothing
poetry nothing
music nothing
painting and dancing nothing
The world's great books
a great set of nothing
Audy and Foudy nothing
******* nothing
sucking nothing
flesh and sex nothing
Church and Times Square
all a lot of nothing
nothing, nothing, nothing
Stevenson nothing
Humphrey nothing
Averell Harriman nothing
John Stuart Mill nil, nil
Franklin Delano nothing
Karlos Marx nothing
Engels nothing
Bakunin and Kropotkin nothing
Leon Trotsky lots of nothing
Stalin less than nothing
nothing nothing nothing nothing
lots and lots of nothing
nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing
lots of it
nothing!
Not a God damn thing

Written by Tuli Kupferburg

....and they're all fine days.

Thank nothing for a beautiful morning.

As a fun thread…this is fine, Edgar…clever and humorous.

But there is a serious aspect to it…and I suspect there is a serious subtext intended. I’d like to discuss it a bit in a friendly way…without anger or insults, if possible.

If your title here were, “Another day…no gods detected” it would be completely logical…as would all the follow up posts. But with the title it has…something is awry.

Not too many decades ago, one could have created a similar thread entitled, “Another day…and there are no germs… none, zilch, nada, null, zero.” That also would become completely logical with a similar minor alternation "Another day…no germs detected.”

The fact that we were not able to detect germs...did not mean there were no germs...just that we were not able to detect them. There was (is) no reason for germs...no need...and Occam's razor would suggest we not even consider it.

But germs exist.

Your thread got me to thinking: Another day…we still do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence…and we do not know if there are gods involved or not.

What do you think?

You know what I think. I will say that if somebody were to produce genuine evidence they might cause me to think differently. I am not quite as hard headed as most people likely think. It would not upset me if that happened, because it would not change reality. If there did suddenly turn out there is a god, it would likely either be disinterested to the extreme or a sadistic bastard to the extreme. I will only accept evidence, not feelings or rhetoric.

Neither would I, Edgar.

And I suspect there is very little chance there ever will be genuine evidence that there are gods...just as I suspect there is very little chance there will ever be genuine evidence that there are NO gods. That is why I say, "I do not know if there are gods...or not."

The point of my "germ" story was to point out that because we cannot detect a god today...nor yesterday...nor the day before that...and probably will not be able to detect one tomorrow or the day after that...

...does not mean there are no gods.

All it means, as it did in the case of germs back then, is that we cannot detect any gods.

All those "nothing's" you listed...seemed to be pointing in a direction that was not sustained by the logic of the situation. IF you were not pointing in that direction...if I mistook your motives...I apologize.

Do you agree that the title is a bit misleading? Do you see that "Another day...no gods detected" might be less misleading?

And I agree...if there is a GOD...the GOD almost certainly is disinterested. I refuse to imagine of god like the one described in the Bible...for the reasons you suggested.

I will try not insult you Frank, but your analogy is quite a lame one:

- We can see the effects of germs and all kinds of ailments they provoke.

- We have never witnessed the effects of gods.

I dunno. The sun came up this morning. Maybe god really did make it happen.

That can also be said of all the genocides, gunshotting black people by angry police officers in the US, earthquakes, tsunamis and so on..

Yup!

I left the door open a crack. But said evidence will never be found. So I firmly believe. And why would a god make everything go through so many eons of evolution just to end up with a mad animal that seems bent on destroying the only planet it has anyway?

You did indeed. I appreciate that, Edgar.



That would be my guess also. No evidence about the components of the true nature of the REALITY of existence. No evidence about what MUST be included...nor evidence about what MUST be excluded. No evidence that there are gods and no evidence there are none.




Definitely not saying there is a god...but...

...a disinterested god would do it...for almost any reason.

Or...perhaps the god has in mind that the mad animals will create the next stage of evolution (some kind of AI) before destroying the planet.

Or...perhaps there are so many planets...this one is not especially important to the god. Maybe the god is just interested in seeing what happens if it lets thing progress as it has here...a kind of experiment to see how this set of conditions works out.

The main thing, though, is that we do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence.

It may have a GOD involved.

To arbitrarily say there are no gods...tends toward being unscientific and illogical.

I do not arbitrarily say there are no gods. I merely say I do not accept made up concepts such as gods.

I hear the words, Edgar...

...but then I read the title again and I think about how much more accurate it could have been.

It just seems to me that you have gone past not accepting the concept...

...and have entered the area where you are suggesting there it is more likely there are no gods than that there are...based on reason and logic.

Nothing wrong with thinking there are no gods...nothing at all. Nothing wrong with thinking there is a GOD either.

I just think neither is born of reason or logic...but that "I do not know if gods exist or not" is both reasonable and logical.

All one need do to change my outlook is to provide real evidence. Rhetoric is unpersuasive to one such as me. The universe just is. We are a temporary phenomenon in the scheme of things. If we do not destroy ourselves (which I think is more and more likely) we will go extinct due to natural causes. Why invent a god. It's like having a third shoe on a short journey.

The doctors who were adamant that germs did not exist...and would not apply the antiseptic procedures advocated by Lister were just as convinced that they were right...that without "real evidence" for germs...the logical and reasonable course was to suppose there was no need to invent them.

A guy names Bliss and others like him probably caused the unnecessary death of James Garfield (a guy who might have become a very successful president) because they would not even accept the possibility of germs. They though probing the wound with unsterilized fingers was the proper procedure.

Despite your protestations to the contrary, Edgar, your rhetoric indicates to me that you are taking the absence of evidence for a god...to be evidence that no gods exist.

That is worse than being a third shoe...that is going with no shoes.

Anyway...I am becoming more and more convinced that we humans will not directly destroy ourselves nor go extinct.

I think we will invent the next stage of evolution...that of AI. I think...I NOW HOPE...we invent machines who rid existence of humanity...which, it seems to me, is more of a cancer on REALITY than anything else.

We'll see.

Thanks for keeping this reasonable and decent, Edgar. I know it was hard...because I can see you disagree with me and my disposition strongly.

I appreciate this.

I don't say there are no gods simply because there is no evidence for them, but because not only is there is no logical reason for any to exist, people simply made them up out of their overactive imaginations and insisted we go along with it. You would be offended if I arbitrarily made up a notion like that and insisted you give it credence and respect.

There is no logical reason for humans to exist...or sharks...or germs, Edgar.

They exist despite the fact that there is no logical reason for them to exist.

So...the fact that there is no logical reason for something to exist...

...or more exactly, the fact that there is no logical reason that you can see for something to exist...

...is not a logical reason for you to say they do not exist.




You are guessing that people simply made them up out of their overactive imaginations...and that they are insisting you go along with it.

That guess may be wrong. There may be a GOD...and the god may have made the notion of gods inherent in humans.

I do not know what the truth is on that...but I am just about certain your assertion about it...is just a guess.

There is nothing wrong with making that guess...I am not saying that.





When a theist "insists" that I give their guesses credence and respect...I laugh at them...and tell them that their arbitrary notions are not worthy of credence and respect.

That is what I would do if you "insisted."