63
   

House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  6  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 04:28 pm
@realjohnboy,
Well, less than a month after a semiautomatic gun was used in Tucson, one shouldn't think about the appropriateness lionizing a deadly weapon anymore.
(The Dutch oven is another Utah state symbol, btw.)
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 04:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, less than a month after a semiautomatic gun was used in Tucson, one shouldn't think about the appropriateness lionizing a deadly weapon anymore.
(The Dutch oven is another Utah state symbol, btw.)
If he 'd used a bomb, like the Moscow Airport murderer,
I do not believe that it woud have been nicer.

I blame the workman, not his tools.
I will not blame ballpoint pens for bad spelling,
nor will I blame spoons for obesity.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 04:54 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:
The Utah House voted today to designate
the Browning M1911 semi-automatic hand gun the official state gun.
There is MUCH love for that gun.
It has a very, very devoted following among
the experts mostly Army and Marines.
It has an almost cultlike following.
I am not a member of that cult.
I prefer revolvers.






Pemerson wrote:
A spokesman for a group opposing the move is named Steve Gunn.
I am not making this up.
Years ago, when I was a trial attorney,
we had a personal injury case of an explosion from a gas leak.
The attorney for Defendant Brooklyn Union Gas was a Mr. Gass; true story.
I thawt that his name shoud have been Mr. Gasssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 05:02 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
(The Dutch oven is another Utah state symbol, btw.)


no wonder those mormons like polygamy so much, after you passed gas and stuck your wife's head under the covers you'd definitely have to have a back up plan
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  6  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 05:30 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
My post about Utah and the state gun designation, David, was intended as a throw-away story. The Browning company is, I think, based in Utah and the M1911 has a long history of military use. The timing of this was unfortunate and the state bird/state flower/state gun image strikes me as weird.
I am a liberal but I also am a redneck. Here in the mountains of Virginia, hunting is big and many kids (boys and girls) get introduced to guns when they become teenagers. The 1st day of deer hunting season still is a "teachers' work day" meaning kids get the day off in the rural schools.
I have no problem with the 2nd amendment. I wish, though, that the NRA would support things like requiring more background checks involving gun show purchases. I would like to see some requirement that gun buyers take a course in gun safety/security. The sale of extended clips and ammunition by internet purchases should be looked at.
I realize, David, that you might see these measures as chipping away at the 2nd amendment, but are these types of action totally unacceptable to you?
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 06:37 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:
My post about Utah and the state gun designation, David,
was intended as a throw-away story.
What is a throw away story ?




realjohnboy wrote:
The Browning company is, I think, based in Utah and the M1911
has a long history of military use.
Since 1911.




realjohnboy wrote:
The timing of this was unfortunate and the state bird/state flower/state gun image
strikes me as weird. I am a liberal but I also am a redneck.
Is that oxymoronic ?







realjohnboy wrote:
Here in the mountains of Virginia, hunting is big and many kids (boys and girls) get introduced to guns when they become teenagers. The 1st day of deer hunting season still is a "teachers' work day" meaning kids get the day off in the rural schools.
I have no problem with the 2nd amendment. I wish, though, that the NRA
would support things like requiring more background checks involving gun show purchases.
As a liberal, how do u feel about "equal protection of the laws"?
Shoud some citizens be more equal than others?
The purpose of a background check is DISCRIMINATION as to who can defend his life
and who must allow himself to be (helplessly) killed by predators (man or beast).
Which is more important discrimination:
a few minutes of preferential seating on a bus,
or the ability to defend your life so that u will HAVE one ?





realjohnboy wrote:
I would like to see some requirement that gun buyers take a course in gun safety/security.
Put it into the public schools along with arithmetic, geografy, and fonetic spelling.



realjohnboy wrote:
The sale of extended clips and ammunition by internet purchases should be looked at.
I realize, David, that you might see these measures as chipping away at the 2nd amendment,
but are these types of action totally unacceptable to you?
Yes, for lack of jurisdiction.
How about a law to make sure that u attend Church enuf ?
A law to have police or troops march behind u
to make sure that u get there on time? Is there jurisdiction for THAT ?

As to "chipping away"; SOME things are open
to negotiation and compromise; not everything.
If u have a yard sale, u might bargain over
the price of an old sofa, but if a customer
wants to rent your wife or your mom for Saturday nite
maybe that is not on the table.

One of the reasons for the 2A is political.
In theory, we citizens are still supposed
to be ABLE to fire our hireling employee,
for cause (e.g., if thay suspended elections until further notice).

The only way that government control of private guns
can come into being and exist, is by USURPATION of ultra vires power,
as to which it has the same legitimate authority as a schoolyard bully.

If usurpations are tolerated,
then we have a government of unlimited jurisdiction,
like those of Stalin, Hitler and Saddam.

Let us bear clearly in mind
that PERSONAL LIBERTY and the domestic jurisdiction
of government are INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL.





David
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  5  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 07:06 pm
I write a lot of "throwaway stories." I traipse around the internet a lot. I see stuff that piques my interest and I jot down a few notes which I might or might not write about. And then I feed the notes into the shredder as insignificant bullshit. Perhaps "throwaway" is a regional phrase.
Liberal/redneck oxymoron. I think you are wrong about that.
I have no desire to get into the whole gun debate again. I think we have pretty much covered that in the last couple of weeks. In my last post I pretty much shot my wad about that.
"Shot my wad," incidentally and as a throwaway is an interesting phrase. It has become a vulgarism but derives from musket loaded weapons from the Civil and Revolutionary wars. Perhaps earlier.
As a lad I got to handle and shoot a replica of one of them. A very time consuming process to reload.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2011 07:15 pm
@realjohnboy,
Do you remember the comedian Red Buttons? He had a routine that involved singing a song, the words of which were, "Ho Ha, Hee Hee. Strange things are happening."

An official state gun.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 05:41 am
@realjohnboy,
Throwaway won the Ascot Gold Cup on June 16 1904 at 20-1 in a field of 4. James Joyce used the result in Ulysses for a conversation between Leopold Bloom and Bantam Lyons which led the latter to think that Bloom had backed it and should therefore stand a round of drinks. Bloom hadn't backed it and him refusing to buy the drinks led to some anti-semitic chatter.

The action of Ulysses takes place on that one day.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 08:06 am
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:
I write a lot of "throwaway stories." I traipse around the internet a lot. I see stuff that piques my interest and I jot down a few notes which I might or might not write about. And then I feed the notes into the shredder as insignificant bullshit. Perhaps "throwaway" is a regional phrase.
Liberal/redneck oxymoron. I think you are wrong about that.
I have no desire to get into the whole gun debate again. I think we have pretty much covered that in the last couple of weeks. In my last post I pretty much shot my wad about that.

"Shot my wad," incidentally and as a throwaway is an interesting phrase. It has become a vulgarism but derives from musket loaded weapons from the Civil and Revolutionary wars. Perhaps earlier.
As a lad I got to handle and shoot a replica of one of them. A very time consuming process to reload.
Yes; it took a while for guns to evolve.
I 'm glad that we r in the halcyon glory of gunnery evolution.





David
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 08:15 am
Judge John Roll's death prompts judicial emergency


Quote:
In the moments before he was murdered, U.S. District Judge John Roll was waiting to talk to U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords about an overload of cases in Arizona's federal courts.

The issue has become a full-blown crisis in the wake of his death. Judge Roslyn O. Silver, who took Roll's place as chief judge for Arizona, on Friday declared a judicial emergency to allow statutory time limits for trying accused criminals to be temporarily suspended in the district because of an acute shortage of judges. On Tuesday, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals extended Silver's temporary order for a year.

The Speedy Trial Act of 1974 requires every federal criminal trial to commence within 70 days of a complaint or indictment being brought.

But the law also allows for emergency declarations to extend that time limit to a maximum of 180 days. Such emergencies are rare: The last in the 9th Circuit was declared in 2000.

Several factors have contributed to the emergency. Federal felony caseloads are at an all-time high in Arizona amid the political clamor over tougher enforcement of border immigration and drug laws. Yet partisan wrangling in the nation's capital has slowed the flow of judicial appointments to many states, not just Arizona, leaving the federal bench overwhelmed by caseloads.

Roll's death only worsened Arizona's problem, cutting the number of federal judges in the busy Tucson division from four to three and forcing redistribution of Roll's caseload of more than 900 criminal cases and various civil matters.

Ninth Circuit Chief Judge Alex Kozinski said in a statement Tuesday that he was hopeful the emergency declaration would prompt congressional action. If Congress adds more judgeships, it will fall to Arizona's delegation to make recommendations, and be up to President Barack Obama to see those seats filled.


The rest at the above source.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 09:55 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Well Fido--Oswald Spengler predicted that the final battle will be between Money and the blood. Capital/Megalopolis versus the fellahdom.

Are you saying he was correct?
He was not right to believe Western Culture was in decline... We have to make the choice to live with the death of our civilization, or to rejuvenate it through revolution... I am not suggesting it has to be violent... Look what Christianity did to rejuvenate the Roman empire in spite of itself... It declined as it did after Christianity because of the corruption of the church, and their willingness to tie themselves to Feudalism out of their own fear of the Muslims and Barbarians.... That they tended to believe the world was winding down to a second coming of Christ gave them little insentive to act for the future; and yet advances were made even through the dark ages... We have to trash a lot to have a future, and whether we have that sort of courage is an open question, but we do not have to see our lives decline into meaninglessness and defeat... No choice is a choice.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 10:00 am
@revelette,
If a judge has to approach his or her member of Congress in a like manner that a joiner or a garbage collector has to do when raising, say, the matter of speed limits in their streets, then it would, at the least, suggest what the attitude of members of congress is to judges and them being overworked.

It is implied that the only channel of communication between a judge and his or her member of Congress is that open to anybody. Having to wait for a "Congress on the Corner" stunt. A meet the sweaty masses photocall.

And without the stunt one presumes he had no channel of communication.

I don't think that applies in the UK. I think a judge with a problem here could get put straight through to his MP and arrange to meet him for dinner.



revelette
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 10:07 am
@spendius,
I doubt it was the only means of communication, but I get your point. It was kind of odd his waiting in line to talk to her.

While that is very valid point, it wasn't my reason to bringing the article here. Since there is a shortage of judges and an overload of cases in Arizona, even one being killed made a difference. It was bitter irony that the very reason the Judge was waiting in line to speak was to talk about the overload of cases and shortage of judges and he gets shot.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 10:19 am
@Fido,
Quote:
. We have to trash a lot to have a future, and whether we have that sort of courage is an open question, but we do not have to see our lives decline into meaninglessness and defeat.


And if we can't "trash a lot"? What then? What have you in mind for being trashed. Private property?

Spengler predicts a rebirth in a "second religiousness". I'm not entirely convinced about that. Spengler, like many an other in the field, flattered himself that he knew what was going on. But his book is a real education just the same and his self-flattery might not be entirely unjustified.

I think we might be too impatient for any rejuvenations. We are very conservative creatures despite the varnish of radical ideas one often sees.

Spengler saw science reaching its limits and having to resort to gimmicks puffed up by city journalism to keep its position. He backed the blood against the money before Keynes said "In the long run we are all dead".

Any man who has a lot to learn should take Spengler on.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 10:24 am
@revelette,
But if you doubt it was the only means of communication you imply that the judge must have had some other reason than the one given for approaching his member of Congress in this common manner.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 11:00 am
@revelette,
revelette wrote:
I doubt it was the only means of communication, but I get your point. It was kind of odd his waiting in line to talk to her.

While that is very valid point, it wasn't my reason to bringing the article here. Since there is a shortage of judges and an overload of cases in Arizona, even one being killed made a difference. It was bitter irony that the very reason the Judge was waiting in line to speak was to talk about the overload of cases and shortage of judges and he gets shot.
Your point is well taken.
I wonder if Jared will bring that up at his sentencing.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 04:11 pm
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

I doubt it was the only means of communication, but I get your point. It was kind of odd his waiting in line to talk to her.

While that is very valid point, it wasn't my reason to bringing the article here. Since there is a shortage of judges and an overload of cases in Arizona, even one being killed made a difference. It was bitter irony that the very reason the Judge was waiting in line to speak was to talk about the overload of cases and shortage of judges and he gets shot.
In retrospect he could have thought, that if a society so overloaded with law and legal practioners resulted in such massive unemployment that it seem everyone with a job must live in fear of the loss of it, then to have too much work and a life time occupation was not really so terrible a situation to find ones self in after all....And there he was, hat in hand, asking government to make his easy life easier still... I wonder if he had the opportunity to think just once that instead of an easier life that he wished he could have any life but the one about to end...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 04:28 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
. We have to trash a lot to have a future, and whether we have that sort of courage is an open question, but we do not have to see our lives decline into meaninglessness and defeat.


And if we can't "trash a lot"? What then? What have you in mind for being trashed. Private property?

Spengler predicts a rebirth in a "second religiousness". I'm not entirely convinced about that. Spengler, like many an other in the field, flattered himself that he knew what was going on. But his book is a real education just the same and his self-flattery might not be entirely unjustified.

I think we might be too impatient for any rejuvenations. We are very conservative creatures despite the varnish of radical ideas one often sees.

Spengler saw science reaching its limits and having to resort to gimmicks puffed up by city journalism to keep its position. He backed the blood against the money before Keynes said "In the long run we are all dead".

Any man who has a lot to learn should take Spengler on.
Yes; private property and property rights are a bust; and yet people still need something to achieve and work for... Spengler gave the Nazis a lot of reason for their actions... They wanted to breathe life into their defunct society...

Well the force that united them was old indeed, and German Nationalism and German Romanticism was really born with the victories of Napoleon over Prussia, and Austria... What did hitler do with it but turn all that nationalistic spirit into a deeper feudalism than they had ever known, And burden them with a greater absolutism than any country but Russia had suffered???

Nationalism is just another dead end, like religion.. These forces, like Socialism as an ideal have nothing to offer anyone, and yet, resources should be governed, and people should govern themselves democratically, and all people ought to have a share of their commonwealth, and it is the intelligent, the hard working, the industrious, the creative who should be harnassed to society to pull it forward; and for that they should recieve their honors, and not be dishonored...

We have had imperialism for not ever three thousand years... We have not had nation states of any sort for two thousand years... Capitalism is far younger than a thousand years and Western Law in anything approaching its present form is less than a thousand years old... Capitalism, the state, private property, property rights, and Western Law have transformed the world...

OK... Enough is enough since primitives having some form of social organization and community with culture is far and away older... People survived having little more of technology than social control of behavior... If freedom is what we seek then freedom from want has never been greater, but behavior is out of control, and we must make the commitment to manage our affairs for the benfit and defense of all... And it is a huge step, to try to hang on to the advances of the last centuries but to retreat into an older form that was long tried and everywhere proved its ability to keep humanity alive...
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2011 06:02 pm
@Fido,
Spengler poured scorn on Hitler and his movement. I want to have that said on the record. Read his words.

Your idealism does you proud Fido. It's just a pity human nature is so resistant.
 

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