63
   

House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

 
 
Fido
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:23 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:


Let's not be coy. The piousness atmosphere in today's level of discourse comes by far from the right.


Bullshit!

Really??? Because they literally have the relious right beside them, and even when they want to trample on human rights it is in the name of God... The old constitution of AngloSaxon England, and of the Normans is recreated in republican America... The state leans on the church and the church leans back...
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:28 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Jefferson, the Federalists said, would bring the guillotine and French Jacobin terror to America. Adams, the Republicans responded, was intent on refastening the tyranny of the British monarchy. ... Is political vitriol really worse today? Get a grip.


So what he's saying is that the paranoid and the delusional character of Americans was established early in the country's history.

It would be mighty interesting to see a complete list of America's boogeymen. I wonder, has there ever existed such a childish country as this?

Was/Is this a tactic of the British government, Spendi, McTag? How about Australia, Germany, ... ?

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:30 pm
@georgeob1,
A red letter day. Gob has said something honest!
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:31 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik has shown himself to be a leftist partisan hack in his public comments
What the reactionary media either does not care about, is that all their nonsense endangers a lot of regular old joe lunchbox public employees just doing their jobs... There are places in this country where people fear to deliver the mail... There are cops who fear the public almost as much as the criminals... The government is all that defends their privilages, and the same with the churches; and yet both recklessly attack the very government that defends them... The government needs to tax wealth to be able to defend it; but the rich so faul up the works of government that it cannot.... Does any one believe they will be able to endlessly defend what it cannot tax??? The whole of the actions of the privilaged is destined to destroy the basis of their privilage because they hate democracy, and really hate government... They are the true anarchists in this land, doing all they can to make anarchy reality...
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:32 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
What are your sources?


You're just pretending to be a hypocrite, right, Gob?
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:34 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:
The main response should be more guns?! Not a reduction in vitriol? Not a coming together against threatening language from the right?


No, not coming together against the "threatening language" from the right. That is just more political vitriol from the lefties who seize this crisis for political points. There is absolutely nothing yet to indicate that this has anything at all to do with the "threatening language from the right" regardless of how many times leftists unthinkingly repeat that.

The lefties trying to make the right own this nutbag are being knee-jerk idiots.
What nonsense... If you were to incarcerate those who take for granted the right to kill democratic representatives in Arizona, then half the damned state would be locked up... The place is a mad house, with arms, and anger, and religious justification to boot...
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:35 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Run of the mill attempts to destroy the political opposition wouldn't be worth wasting our time on. We could go on forever about accusations about both men - Bush, mostly for Iraq, oil mongering, "killing US servicemen for personal profit" - Obama, because of his religion, birth location questions, name, family heritage, relationships with shady characters... Fair game.

What I'm talking about are threats in public to kill them. I feel confident that Bush wins the Let's Kill Him sweepstakes.

I mean, you don't want to be regaled with the rhetoric from Dems and liberal pundits targeting the Bush administration, do you? Don't you believe it was far worse than this silly Alaskan huntress' gaffe?
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:36 pm
@JTT,
Well, we're young!
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:36 pm
@Lash,
but he had Cheney next in line as a deterrent.

Fido
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:37 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

No time for finger-pointing

Quote:
Until we have more definitive information about the shooter, pointing fingers at who might bear responsibility for the Tucson, Arizona, massacre only contributes to what we must end in America: a toxic political environment.

Soon after the news broke, the internet lit up with accusations, even before we knew anything at all about the man who pulled the trigger. Much of the early commentary, especially from the left, blamed the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, etc. for employing a rhetoric of militarism and creating a climate of hate.

Commentators from the right soon retaliated, arguing that the left was just as guilty of rhetorical excess and through bad governance, had inspired a citizen revolt. As of this hour, we have a country that is not only deeply saddened but even more divided than we were before the shooting.

We can do better -- a lot better.

The rich and the right are toxic...The rich want to destroy the ability of government to tax and to enforce rights... The right in general blames immigrants and liberals and blacks for the dilution of their rights and the draining off of their hope and wealth... Both are in the wrong, but all our anger is justified...
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:39 pm
@Rockhead,
Laughing
...another great Bush strateegery!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:41 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Bush, mostly for Iraq, oil mongering,


Lash, don't paper over what Bush has done; be honest about it.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:42 pm
@Lash,
When might the world expect to see the US grow up and act responsibly?
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:45 pm
@JTT,
Nevah!!!!!
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:48 pm
@Lash,
So personal responsibility is just another meaningless conservative/Repub talking point.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 07:58 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

I remember them, yeah. And I remember the Dem base being plenty pissed at them. But I don't remember Dem leadership engaging in repeated and intentionally provocative violent rhetoric regarding the man. Which is exactly the case with modern Republicans.
You don't remember "repeated and intentionally provocative violent rhetoric" regarding Cheney ????? ( I suspect you threw the "violent" in because, even as you wrote it, you had doubts.)

Cheney was indeed the object of nearly continuous and often vitriolic criticism by Democrat commentators throughout the Bush Presidency.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

You're wrong about that. Incredibly wrong. From day -100 of Obama's term, the Right has done everything it can to destroy the man - not just politically but personally. From calling the dude a 'secret muslim,' to a friend of terrorists, to a Marxist, to a Kenyan - the MAINSTREAM right-wing has attacked him incessantly. Leaders of the party. You can't say that for the Democrats.
Even accepting your characterizations at face value this is hardly of a different character from the criticisms levelled at Bush & Cheney. Moreover most of the things you cited have a basis in Obama's actual actions;
=> Bill Ayers, a prominent friend and supporter of Obama really was a leader of the Weather underground which really was a self styled Marxist, revolutionary, terror organization. You can find details of their crimes on Google.
=> Obama's father really was from Kenya, and he wrote a book dedicated to him.
=>I don't know Obama's religion, and don't much care (it can't go very deep because he slept through the "Rev" Wright's vitriolic and ocassionally violence- inciting sermons for 10 years.). However, following the murders by a Moslem officer at Ft Hood his first expressions were the expressed hope that anti Moslem reactions wouldn't result - rather than expressions of concern for the innocents who were murdered.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

The entire point of my piece is that modern Republicans know the violent rhetoric has gone too far - and are fearful of what will happen. Thus the current freak-out we are witnessing.

What "violent" rhetoric? Nothing you have cited above was either violent or even a call to violence.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 08:06 pm
@JTT,
(lol)
I know you are wanting a skirmish, but I'm just not feelin it.

Meanwhile, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110112/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_picketing

No funeral protesting in Tucson.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 08:06 pm
@JTT,
btw, I was speaking as an American. Twisted Evil
Butrflynet
 
  4  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 08:08 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
To be sure, today’s 24-hour news cycle and the Internet amplify our discord, but the real complaint should be that the political finger-pointing is keeping us from having a more urgent conversation.


Yep! You won't hear any of the owners of media saying this. They not only amplify our discord, they thrive off it and seek to generate it for their ratings and profits.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 08:46 pm
@georgeob1,
engineer wrote:

Quote:
Sirhan Sirhan was not an Islamist. The Palestinian resistance was secular in nature all the way up until the '80 when we started to see the rise of Hamas. His actions were not driven out of religion.


George wrote:

Quote:
Do you really claim to know his inner motives? What are your sources?



Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirhan_Sirhan

Sirhan Sirhan

Sirhan Bishara Sirhan (Arabic: سرحان بشارة سرحان, born March 19, 1944) is a Christian Palestinian (referred to as a Jordanian at the time of the assassination) who was convicted for the assassination of United States Senator Robert F. Kennedy. He is serving a life sentence at Pleasant Valley State Prison, California.

Motives

A possible motive cited for his actions is the Middle East conflict.[11] After his arrest, Sirhan said, "I can explain it. I did it for my country."[11] According to Mel Ayton, Sirhan believed he was deliberately betrayed by Kennedy's support for Israel in the June 1967 Six-Day War,[18] which had begun exactly one year to the day before the assassination. During a search of Sirhan's apartment after his arrest, a spiral-bound notebook was found containing a diary entry which demonstrated that his anger had gradually fixated on Robert Kennedy, who had promised to send 50 fighter jets to Israel if he were elected president. Sirhan's journal entry of May 18, 1968, read: "My determination to eliminate R.F.K. is becoming the more and more [sic] of an unshakable obsession...Kennedy must die before June 5th".[7][11] They found other notebooks and diary entries which contained his growing rage at Zionists, particularly at Kennedy; his journals also contained many nonsensical scribbles, which were thought to be his version of "free writing".

The next day, on June 6, the Los Angeles Times printed an article, which discussed Sirhan's motive for the assassination, confirmed by the memos Sirhan wrote to himself. Jerry Cohen, who authored the article, stated,
"When the Jordanian nationalist, Sirhan Bishara Sirhan, allegedly shot Kennedy, ostensibly because of the senator's advocacy of U.S. support for Israel, the crime with which he was charged was in essence another manifestation of the centuries-old hatred between Arab and Jew."
0 Replies
 
 

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