63
   

House of Reps. member Giffords shot in Arizona today

 
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 02:50 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
Most left wing nuts are rabid supporters of an unarmed, victim filled America


Absolute lies, then again, I would figure you would love this cause then they are sitting targets for you......(see how it works?) DipShit!, it's time for your meds and a nap. (good point)
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 02:51 pm
@H2O MAN,
I'm way left and I don't support an unarmed America.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 02:51 pm
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article_51bb5006-1bd6-11e0-9fec-001cc4c002e0.html

Authorities clear man called 'person of interest' in Giffords shooting case

Detectives with the Pima County Sheriff's Department interviewed the "person of interest" in Saturday's mass shooting and cleared him of any wrongdoing.

The man, a cab driver, told detectives he gave Jared Loughner a ride to the Safeway and they entered the store together so Loughner could obtain change to pay his fare, said Bureau Chief Richard Kastigar.

Records substantiate the driver dropped Loughner off at 9:59 a.m., Kastigar said.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 02:52 pm
@Lash,
"by any means necessary," may well have been inciting violence. On just those words alone, it seems inciting to me. I never pretended to know a lot of history, but there was a lot of violence during that time.

Quote:
Angle: I feel that the Second Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms for our citizenry. This not for someone who's in the military. This not for law enforcement. This is for us. And in fact when you read that Constitution and the founding fathers, they intended this to stop tyranny. This is for us when our government becomes tyrannical...


Manders: If we needed it at any time in history, it might be right now.

Angle: Well it's to defend ourselves. And you know, I'm hoping that we're not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.


source

Likewise, inciting violence as a means to a political end.
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 02:53 pm
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_f4d8973e-1c22-11e0-9e41-001cc4c03286.html

Gun used in shooting spree bought at Tucson store

Mass-shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner bought the gun used in Saturday’s killings on Nov. 30 at the Sportsman’s Warehouse, 3945 W. Costco Drive, the Associated Press and Washington Post report.

FBI Director Robert Mueller confirmed the timing of the purchase today and said it was a Glock model 19 9mm semi-automatic handgun.

The handgun purchase was legal, authorities said, and Loughner was not a prohibited possessor.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 02:57 pm
Here's more background on Loughner and his parents.
Quote:
Arizona Suspected Gunman Passed FBI Background Check
By Jana Winter
January 09, 2011

New details emerging about the suspected shooter behind Saturday's deadly rampage reveal a 22-year-old man with a troubled past who law enforcement say may have been influenced by American Renaissance, a pro-white publication.

And FoxNews.com has learned that the suspect purchased a firearm legally — and after passing an FBI background check — from Sportsman's Warehouse's Tucson store in November, the company's vice president of hunting operations told FoxNews.com.

Loughner did not present a concealed weapons permit so he was required to pass an FBI background check, which he did "immediately and without incident," said Matt French, speaking from the Sportsman's Warehouse's Utah headquarters.

"To my knowledge, the firearm purchase was without incident," French said.

He could not confirm whether the gun purchased in November was the same gun allegedly used in Saturday's mass shooting, but said it was the only recent firearm purchase made by the suspect at their stores.

"Sportsman's Warehouse is cooperating fully with the authorities in investigating this horrible tragedy," he said.

"Our sincere condolences go to those affected by this unspeakable incident."

This comes as a law enforcement memo based on information provided by the Department of Homeland Security and obtained by Fox News suggests that alleged gunman Jared Loughner — accused of killing six people, shooting Arizona Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and wounding 12 others — may have ties to the American Renaissance group, though it's unclear if he was directly affiliated with the publication or group.

The Southern Poverty Law Center describes the group as "white nationalist" whose leader, Jared Taylor, is "a kind of modern-day version of the refined but racist colonialist of old."

The memo states that there is "no direct connection" between Loughner and the group, "but strong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his MySpace and YouTube account.). The group's ideology is anti-government, anti-immigration, anti-ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti-Semitic."

The memo also includes information about the suspect's mother, who works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors and notes that Loughner has multiple arrests but no criminal record.

But Taylor, a 1973 graduate in philosophy from Yale University, told Fox News on Sunday that he had never heard of Loughner until Saturday and has checked the group's records going back 20 years and has not found any subscriptions for Loughner to American Renaissance publications.

He added he has no indication that Loughner ever attended any of the group's events, which have been held on the East Coast where the organization is based.

Taylor also denied references to the group as being "anti-ZOG."

"That is complete nonsense," he said. "I have absolutely no idea what DHS is talking about. We have never used the term 'ZOG.' We have never thought in those terms. If this is the level of research we are getting from DHS, then heaven help us," he said.

Loughner lives with his parents in a Tucson neighborhood that one neighbor described as part of an area that is notorious for "stash houses" for Mexican gangs to bring drugs into the U.S. and store them.

The neighbor, who asked only to be identified as Jon, said he volunteered at a phone bank for Giffords' 2008 congressional campaign. He said none of the neighbors seem to know any member of the Loughner household, which on Sunday was cordoned off. Two run-down jalopies outside the house along with a front walkway littered with empty paint buckets and a garden hose blocked the walkway and door while the entire front yard is covered in a tangled cactus tree.

Nothing like this has ever happened in this neighborhood. "We've had a number of good DEA busts," Jon said. "It's a shock, it really is. ... It's sad, it's been a sad day."

Another neighbor directly across from the home also did not want to give his name, but said a mother, son and father live at the house.

"They weren't real friendly," said the neighbor who described himself as 60 and retired. They mostly didn't talk to anyone and mainly stayed inside. "Loners," he called them.

Another neighbor, Anthony Woods, who was three years behind Loughner in school, said the father in the household was argumentative.

Woods said the dad would complain about everything from neighbors' trash cans on the street to standing too close to his property by the fence. Woods said law enforcement interviewed the mother and father at the Loughner house Saturday night.

"They confiscated a lot of things" from the house, he said.

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said Saturday that Loughner had "a troubled past."

"I'm not a psychiatrist so I have no reason to believe the person was insane. Was he unstable? I would agree with that," he said.

Loughner was kicked out of Pima Community College following a series of run-ins with school officials and police at the colleges where he frequently caused disruptions in classrooms and elsewhere on campus, according to The Arizona Republic.

The tensions with school officials led to Loughner's production of a YouTube video in which he declared the college illegal, the newspaper reports.

The college said Loughner could only return if he received mental-health clearance, according to The Arizona Republic.

Loughner is suspected of posting a series of YouTube videos that show a focus on literacy and currency -- as well as his distrust in the government.

"Hello, my name is Jared Lee Loughner," one of the videos says, in words appearing on the screen. "This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming; the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don't dream -- sadly."

The video, posted Dec. 15, later turns more political.

"The majority of citizens in the United States of America have never read the United States of America's Constitution. You don't have to accept the federalist laws," the video's titles say. "In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can't trust the current government because of the ratifications: the government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar. No! I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver! No! I won't trust in god!"

Loughner's last writing on his MySpace page was just hours before the shooting.

"Goodbye friends," he wrote. "Please don't be mad at me."

Records obtained from the Pima County, Ariz., criminal database also show Loughner was arrested in 2007 for possessing drug paraphernalia, a misdemeanor charge. The records suggest that Loughner paid a $20 fee and completed a court-ordered program for drug offenders.

Three months later he was cited for running a stop sign, according to court documents.

Another record shows a 2008 arrest for what’s described as a "local charge" in Marana, Ariz., 20 miles northwest of Tucson. The non-criminal charge was dismissed.

FBI Director Robert Mueller said that the gun used in Saturday's massacre was a Glock semi-automatic 9-mm. gun with extended magazine.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/09/arizona-suspected-gunman-no-stranger-to-trouble/
slkshock7
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:01 pm
@BillW,
the words reloading or crosshairs weren't in Palin's graphic either. It's the symbology which people are slobbering at the mouth about....and this example is clearly as, if not more, egregious than anything Palin or her PAC has done.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:01 pm
@firefly,
Loughner did not present a concealed weapons permit so he was required to pass an FBI background check, which he did "immediately and without incident."

You can not hold the gun maker or seller liable here, you must hold the individual (Loughner) responsible for his decisions and subsequent actions.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:06 pm
Quote:


Jared Loughner is charged with one count of attempted assassination of member of Congress, two counts of killing an employee of the federal government and two counts of attempting to killing a federal employee
since when do we have special charges for killing or attempting to kill special people? This is so wrong....
littlek
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Been that way for a while.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:08 pm
@slkshock7,
Your conclusions are based on nothing but ignorance and political bias.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:10 pm
@slkshock7,
Palin's words were these

Quote:
Commonsense Conservatives & lovers of America: "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!" Pls see my Facebook page.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:11 pm
@littlek,
Quote:
Been that way for a while.
I can see in civil cases putting different values on human life, but in the criminal system no way. I was not aware....yet more evidence that our criminal justice system is broken..as if we needed any more.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
The point, which i am not surprised that you miss, is that members of government get special consideration in assassination and assassination attempts because killing them or attempting to kill them are acts which destabilize the government, which is a threat to us all.
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:11 pm
@slkshock7,

Quote:
....and this example is clearly as, if not more, egregious than anything Palin or her PAC has done.


If you truly believe that - then you are deranged. I don't believe in honesty you do.
georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:15 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Well, here's the whole quote:
“We declare our right on this earth to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary.”

whew! You used Malcolm as an example, huh? That's valid and everything, but so hard for me to juxtapose the contexts...

Okay... I think what Malcolm said was inflammatory, and I'll even say that he probably (not just with that quote, but with his general stance that it was ok for blacks to return physical violence in kind) helped provoke a few blacks into fighting the police that were beating their heads.

But I don't think he could be held legally liable for any specific case of violence because of what he said.

For the record, he later admitted his approach wasn't the healthiest, and toned it down.

It wasn't clear in your post - do you think what he said is a direct call to violence?

How about Sharon Angle saying that "people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies"? How direct is that?


Interesting juxtaposition. I think the point is that such references occur across the political spectrum and very often don't represent a direct intent on the part of the speaker to incite violence - rather an expression of basic human rights and potential for action. However, they could be used (or misused) by someone with evil (or merely confused/unstable) intent to do real harm.

Based on the information so far available about the perpetrator, this was not a rational action based on a realistic assessment of the situation. In these circumstances the attribution of the motive to the rational persuasive power of someone's words or influence appears very far-fetched to me. It is evident that some are merely fanning excitement to gain attention, media ratings, or advance an unrtelated political cause.

We enjoy freedom of speech. That necessarily involves excesses on the part of some. However the only thing surely worse than those excesses are the excesses that always accompany the attempt to limit free speech. "Hate speech" is an elusive concept, and I believe it both is dangerous to attempt to regulate it, and would be ineffective in preventing incidents such as this.

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:20 pm
Hate speech laws do not stand up when challenged, except by the standard which has existed since before such legislation was promulgated--which is that speech which incites to criminality is not protected.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:24 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:

Based on the information so far available about the perpetrator, this was not a rational action based on a realistic assessment of the situation. In these circumstances the attribution of the motive to the rational persuasive power of someone's words or influence appears very far-fetched to me. It is evident that some are merely fanning excitement to gain attention, media ratings, or advance an unrtelated political cause.

I don't think the issue is the rational persuasive power of someone's words. I think it is the fanning of someone's irrational fears with irrational arguments by those in power or attempting to gain power.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:24 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
The point, which i am not surprised that you miss, is that members of government get special consideration in assassination and assassination attempts because killing them or attempting to kill them are acts which destabilize the government, which is a threat to us all
Which the system can take under consideration at sentencing. Making killing servants of the collective a special crime violates the professed belief that "all men are created equal".
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
Nonsense. Saying that someone who has a special job to do in society needs special protection as a measure to protect the stability of society is not a case of saying that people are unequal.
0 Replies
 
 

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