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How do you win a "War On Terror"?

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 07:32 pm
nimh wrote:
A year later support for America had fallen in nearly every single country for which the Pew Center provides data.


To paraphrase, sort of --

To take action, or not to take action,--that is the question.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the lack of consensus and its familiar companion, increasing danger of delay to those one loves,
Or to take selective timely action against a region of troubles, and by opposing end them, even while losing the love of those your actions rescue.

Lose their love and gain their hate and risk the dangers that provokes;
Or, retain their love and lose yourself piece by piece, while there is no peace for them or you with no action;
But shall we engage other ills we do not know, than remain engaged and be willing servants of those we do know?
But what value is a love bathed in fear?
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lost my calgon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2004 03:24 pm
You wait for judgement day...
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2004 03:26 pm
Sorry, can't make it. I have a lunch with Sally then.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2004 09:27 pm
lost_my_calgon wrote:
You wait for judgement day...


Whose?
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2004 07:44 am
Ahem - just came across this in a New Zealand news and commentary source - it seems to fit here - thought it interesting, for what that is worth:

Meditations (Politics) - From Martin LeFevre in California

Thinking Together
In " Terrorism Knows no Religion or Region," Kuwait's former Minister of Information, Dr. Saad Al Ajmi, has provided a framework for understanding the extremism that shapes terrorists of all stripes, not just "Islamic terrorists."

Citing the Oklahoma City bombing in America, Al Ajmi persuasively argues that certain ingredients are essential in manufacturing terrorists anywhere. (Having had a run-in the year before the Oklahoma City bombing with people of Timothy McVeigh's mindset in my home state of Michigan, where the plot was hatched, I can attest to his basic premise.)

Along with a minority of Americans, I felt at the time that if Arab terrorists had perpetrated the Oklahoma City bombing, the US would have gone to war then. Even in 1995, one did not need to be prescient to see where things were headed. The inevitable has happened, and bin Laden's minions have played right into the hands of the Bush clique's.

A close advisor to Mikhail Gorbachev told his American counterpart during the heady days of perestroika, "we are going to do the worst thing to you; we are going to deprive you of an enemy." Well, bin Laden gave the neo-cons and America an even better enemy than the Soviet Union. Now we have war without end, invasions to benefit corporations, and more and more military bases in every corner of the globe.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, Wolfowitz and company claim they are making the United States, and the world, more secure. But with their regressive, anachronistic mindset, their unquestioned belief in the righteousness of American power, and their disdain for emerging international law in favor of unilateral militaristic ?solutions,' they have brought the world to the brink of catastrophe.

But because "in today's world, attention revolves around acts committed by so-called ?Islamic' terrorists," Al Ajmi describes "four pillars of indoctrination?in manipulating disgruntled Arab Muslim youth into terrorists." They are: conspiracy, nihilism, the dream, and solitude.

Regarding conspiracy, Al Ajmi says, "terrorism is the product of paranoia," enabling even "the killing of Arab Muslims, brothers and sisters in both blood and belief, by young Arab Muslim terrorists." This fact alone supports his insight that terrorism is not a product of particular religions or peoples, but of a warped human psyche.

Nihilism is also a familiar pathology in the West, though it takes a different form than in the Arab world. Most young people in America also believe that "this life is worthless, full of ugliness and hate." The difference is that they don't believe life is a "transition to Paradise," which is a necessary precondition for someone blowing him or herself up.

By "the dream" Al Ajmi means "a true Islamic state, the ultimate utopia where real justice prevails? and where Muslims lead the world." By solitude he means isolation, the necessity for "true Muslims to seal themselves off from the evil of the outside world." Given such isolation, other Muslims who become corrupted "must be taken out."

In reflecting on Al Ajmi's pillars of terrorism, I am struck by how the motivations behind the unspeakable horror of suicide bombings arise from impulses that, had they not become twisted and manipulated, could be positive forces. Perhaps, for some of the disaffected youth in the Arab world as well as the West, they still can.

Rather than the paranoia of conspiracy theories, there can be a growing understanding of how ruling elites are merging in a system of global control. Rather than nihilism, there can be depth of response. Rather than utopianism, there can be radical change beginning within the individual. Rather than isolation, there can be balance between solitude and thinking together.


************
- Martin LeFevre is a contemplative, and non-academic religious and political philosopher. He has been publishing in North America, Latin America, Africa, and Europe (and now New Zealand) for 20 years. Email: [email protected]. The author welcomes comments.



Back to your normal program...
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Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2004 09:30 pm
This is a fairly long essay. I think I agree with almost everything he has to say.

The Cause Of Terrorism

Doesn't give much hope of a solution though.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2004 09:36 pm
I think its a bit simplistic,and ignores the social and economic pressures that contribute to terorism.
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bocdaver
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 02:55 am
Hobitbob is right. We need to help to end disease, starvation, illilteracy. That is the way to peace.

Let's turn our swords into plowshares. What about a new Marshall Plan-for the whole world. Let's give our surplus food to the people starving in the Middle East--yes, even to North Korea.

Hobitbob is right. We have forgotten the biblical injunction--turn the other cheek.


Love will conquer the world. Reach out and clasp hands with the dispossessed of the world. That is the way world peace will come.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 02:21 pm
A wiseass acquaintance proposed the following as the only two long term solutions to terrorism.

#1 "All non-terrorists shall travel to the middle east and there choose a convenient campsight. Then they shall wait passively for terrorists in the area to murder them. When the number of non-terrorists is reduced to zero, the terrorists will turn on each other. When their number is also reduced to zero, terrorism will end."

#2 "All non-terrorists shall periodically pay each and every terrorist whatever bribe is necessary to dissuade each and every one of them from murdering any more non-terrorists. When the non-terrorists run out of the means to continue to pay these bribes they all then shall proceed to solution #1."

What do you think?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 02:38 pm
I think he's a wiseass acquaintance <grins>
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Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 04:46 pm
Quote:
Hobitbob is right. We need to help to end disease, starvation, illilteracy. That is the way to peace.

Let's turn our swords into plowshares. What about a new Marshall Plan-for the whole world. Let's give our surplus food to the people starving in the Middle East--yes, even to North Korea.


I was watching a show the other week and the head of the world bank was talking about how worldwide spending on defence is about $1000 billion and worldwide spending on development is about $50 billion. Makes you wonder what our priorities are don't it.

Source.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 05:19 pm
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Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 06:39 pm
Yuk, That piece left a bad taste in my mouth.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 08:04 pm
Krauthammer is one of the leading Neo Cons. The preceeding speech (which seems to have become the latest thing the rightoids prat out when they wish to seem "edumacaterd") builds on his earlier "unipolar moment" article, in which he advocates a "benevolent empire" based on that of Britain in the 1800s. He appears to have read history very selectively, if at all.
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 09:55 pm
Neo Fascists
Krauthammer is Neo Fascist psuedo intellectual.

BTW The Republican Party is DEAD. I call the new party Neo Fascists.
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bocdaver
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 09:56 pm
Krauthammer is a Jew. He may be wrong at times but he is not a killer. He is not an Arab. He is not like the Lybian scumbags who blew apart the plane in Scotland.

Italian Paratroopers had a saying about the Lybians-

They are the leavings from a Camel's masturbations.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 12:13 am
ican711nm wrote:
How about a wisehead's solution?

AMERICAN POWER IN A UNIPOLAR WORLD

Charles Krauthammer

AEI Irving Kristol Lecture, Washington, D.C.

Feb. 10, 2004
Thank you for posting Ican711nm! That was one hell of a Lecture. I look forward to reading a book from this man.
ADRIAN: I would be very interested in hearing precisely what you didn't like about it... if you get a minute. I would also love to hear comments from:
CRAVEN, SETANTA, FRANK, THOMAS and everyone else!... I hereby endorse it in hopes that people will not skip over it because of its length. :wink: It is, at the very least, worth reading!
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 12:17 am
Italgato, I would have thought that in your time away you would have at least learned to spell "Libyan." Rolling Eyes
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 12:10 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
How about a wisehead's solution?

AMERICAN POWER IN A UNIPOLAR WORLD

Charles Krauthammer

AEI Irving Kristol Lecture, Washington, D.C.

Feb. 10, 2004
Thank you for posting Ican711nm!



You're welcome Exclamation

I remember a visit with my Dad to the D.C. National Zoological Gardens, I was 8 at the time. I saw this ostrich stick its head in the sand when the crowd of visitors around it's area grew large and noisey. I asked my Dad why the ostrich did that. He said the ostrich did that to control it's fear. He then added with a big smile: "Some people do the equivalent thing under similar circumstances."

Well, Bill, here you and I are witnessing that "equivalent thing" in this forum. Their "sand" is of course the UN.

So let me ask them how they feel about solution #3:

Leave the solution of the terrorist problem to the UN and call all those who think otherwise bad names and accuse them of evil motives.

Then after the UN fails, choose my previously posted, wiseass acquaintaince's solution #2 Exclamation
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 12:29 pm
Quote:

I remember a visit with my Dad to the D.C. National Zoological Gardens, I was 8 at the time. I saw this ostrich stick its head in the sand when the crowd of visitors around it's area grew large and noisey.

Now why don't I believe you? Might it be because Ostriches actually don't do this?
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