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How do you win a "War On Terror"?

 
 
Adrian
 
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 08:53 pm
What is a "War On Terror"? How do you "win" one?
It seems to me that a "War On Terror" is nothing but a tautology. We are involved in a conflict, not against any group of people, but against a methodology. How can we defeat a method? If we can't then what are we doing? What are the possible solutions to terrorism?

I personally think that any violent reaction to terrorism will do nothing but engender more terrorism.

What do you all think?
Can we win through violence?
If not, then what should we do?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 9,658 • Replies: 169
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Charli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 09:29 pm
SUPER QUESTION!!!
Adrian, this is an excellent, thought-provoking question. I hope there are many responses. At this moment, I'm not prepared to reply. I plan to come back - especially to read what others have written. The world MUST find a suitable solution - before we all perish . . . or, at best, find ourselves living under the worst possible conditions! [/color]
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 09:30 pm
A Beginning
Most of the terrorist groups do have a cause. They have an agenda and goals. Seems to me that the 1st step is to find out what those are. Then determine if any of those goals have a rational basis. If so, then seek to examine how those goals may be achieved without the terrorists resorting to violence. This may appear to be impossible yet without making a concerted, serious effort to investigate the possible solutions one would never know if any methods may lessen the conflict.

To be continued...
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 10:59 pm
I, being a liberal lefty pinkko.......etc...., think that to decrease terrorism more effort should be made to decrease the amount of poverty, disease, and oppression in what have come to be known as "failed states." That might be a good start.
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 11:24 pm
More Specifics.
The stated grievances of the bin Laden network fit a pattern familiar to students of Islamic activism over the past two centuries. In a fatwa released in February 1998 (and echoed last week by the Taliban), bin Laden and leaders of extremist groups in Egypt, Pakistan and Bangladesh specified that their war was a defensive struggle against Americans and their allies who had declared war "on God, his messenger, and Muslims." The "crimes and sins" perpetrated by the United States were threefold. First, it had "stormed" the Arabian peninsula during the Gulf War and continued "occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places" (i.e., Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia); second, it continued a war of annihilation against Iraq; and third, it supported the state of Israel and its continued occupation of Jerusalem.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/comm/oped/hashmi.shtml

Al Qaeda's main goals:
Remove Western influence from Islamic lands. In practice, this means eliminating American military, cultural, and political influence from predominantly Islamic countries in the Middle East and Central Asia.
Destroy governments in Islamic lands that are supported by and linked to the democracies of the U.S. and Western Europe and that have made peace with and recognize the legitimacy of the state of Israel.
Establish orthodox Islamic regimes throughout regions where Muslims are the majority of the population and put into practice the strict tenets of Shari'a law.


http://college.hmco.com/currentconflict/instructors/history/alqaeda.html

We have some bright people here. Instead of generalized commentary how about tackling a specific situation, such as the grievences of the folk that attack that USA?
0 Replies
 
Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 12:46 am
OK lets start with Al Qaeda.
Some things I think the US could do to help the situation;
1. Stop trying to kill them. People are much more likely to talk to you then.
2. Use foreign aid to promote secular education. In some countries the only free education available is religious education.
3. Stop supporting Israel in such a one-sided and public manner. The perception of this amongst Muslims has been VERY damaging for the USA's image in the region.
4. Stop trying to directly meddle in the affairs of other countries. You guys can get all the influence you need simply through economic means. Why do you have to go stomping about everywhere beating your chest.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 01:24 am
Quote:
2. Use foreign aid to promote secular education. In some countries the only free education available is religious education.

Can I get an "Insh'allah?"Very Happy
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 02:37 am
A good start Adrian
I feel that the pressure applied to the US Govt. and Congress by various groups via lobbying and monetary contributions to totally support Israel is one of the problems confronting the possible peace between the parties that are in dispute over territory and power in the Israeli/Palistine dispute. The UN is also a part of problem because they have never enforced any sanctions upon Israel

In order to minimize, at least the terrorist attacks this situation must be worked on in a more strident manner. The US must in no uncertain terms relay the msg. that funds actually have been forwarded to the Palistians and will be increased and that the US does not condone assasinations of Hamas leaders.

These and other measures, such as the cessasation of supplying weapns to Israel could ease the the wrath of Al Q.
The Israeli/Palistine situation is only one part of the equation, however.

To be continued...
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 05:11 am
Has it occurred to anyone here that rewarding terrorist activity might promote terrorism? What kind of example would that set for other groups? Bomb a building = get a new school. Blow up a bus = increased funding. Level a skyscraper = change foreign policy. That does not sound very effective to me. It sounds like the equivalent to announcing; from this day forward; we will negotiate with terrorists. If you kidnap someone, we'll pay the ransom. If you want something changed, commit an act of terrorism.

I bet you already know what I think is a better idea… If you commit an act of terror, we'll hunt you relentlessly until we find you cowering in a rat hole someplace unkempt and underfed. If you run a country that harbors terrorists; say goodbye to your days of running a country. Understand that all terrorist missions are suicide missions because there will be no quarter for perpetrators of same. We should kill every last would-be terrorist until they all understand that it is always a suicide mission.

I don't believe it is possible to stop a murder-suicide. If I were willing to die to accomplish a deed, I believe said deed would be done. Ask yourself the same question. The last thing you want to do is reward such horrific behavior. The best you can do is; eliminate as many threats as you can identify. The world will miss Saddam or Bin Ladin or Kim Jong IL no more than it misses Hitler. The world will be a better place without them.

Just in case my solution made you forget my question; I'll repeat it. Has it occurred to anyone here that rewarding terrorist activity might promote terrorism? Peace, out.
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 06:09 am
It seems those fighting the war on terror are themselves committing atrocities in the name of righteousness. Dubya is one of the most dangerous terrorists the world has ever seen.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 06:23 am
Come on Wilso, surely you see a distinction between collateral damage and intentionally targeting innocents. It is a crying shame, but not terrorism.
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 06:40 am
Peace out?
We are seeking solutions not more terror. If you cannot offer anything more than the same please don't respond. It merely clogs up the thread.

Solutions do not negate defense. Of course defensive measure must also be part of the equation.

What can the USA do to prevent further terrorism aside from defending which is an ongoing process via Homeland Security?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 07:07 am
Re: How do you win a "War On Terror"?
Adrian wrote:
What is a "War On Terror"? How do you "win" one?
It seems to me that a "War On Terror" is nothing but a tautology. We are involved in a conflict, not against any group of people, but against a methodology. How can we defeat a method? If we can't then what are we doing? What are the possible solutions to terrorism?

I personally think that any violent reaction to terrorism will do nothing but engender more terrorism.

What do you all think?
Can we win through violence?
If not, then what should we do?

pistoff, my post directly answers some of the author's questions. He didn't ask for only like-minded responses. If you don't like my posts, don't read them. Try to have a little respect
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 07:22 am
Pistoff- I agree with Occam Bill. Are we debating the issues, or do you want this thread to be a "mutual admiration society?" Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 07:52 am
While I agree with OCCOM Bill's perspective, I have a much easier answer.

Get rid of the terrorists. If that requires the US to change it's foriegn policy, then so be it. If that means that we have to hunt down each and every terrorist then that too should come to pass.

Obviously there is no easy answer to this question, but one thing that can't be done is to seem weak on terrorism as that will guarantee an increase in terrorist activity. If there are no reprecussions for the terror acts, then there is nothing to stop the suicide bombers leaders from brain washing more bombers. It is those who sit in the leadership positions that we need to target. THEY are the real terrorists.

I am sure that Osama would read some of these posts and bust out laughing.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:32 am
By easier answer, you must mean fewer words because the plan seems identical. Well put McGentrix!
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:36 am
Quote:
If that means that we have to hunt down each and every terrorist then that too should come to pass.


Agree. We also need to stop the flow of money to the people who are running the schools that turn innocent kids into America haters, and potential terrorists. And that folks, would mean playing hard ball with the Saudis!
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:44 am
McGentrix wrote:
While I agree with OCCOM Bill's perspective, I have a much easier answer.

Get rid of the terrorists. If that requires the US to change it's foriegn policy, then so be it. If that means that we have to hunt down each and every terrorist then that too should come to pass.


Hunting down terrorists is not a zero-sum game.

This isn't X-Box.

The US has spawned legions of terroists by attacking Iraq.

Terrorists who weren't thinking about becoming terrorists before that.

(Imagine a video game where every time you kill a baddie, ten more spring up in his place.)
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:55 am
PDiddie wrote:


Hunting down terrorists is not a zero-sum game.

This isn't X-Box.

The US has spawned legions of terroists by attacking Iraq.

Terrorists who weren't thinking about becoming terrorists before that.

(Imagine a video game where every time you kill a baddie, ten more spring up in his place.)


That is a scary proposition. I've heard that fear before, and it is reasonable, but I've seen no evidence of it thus far. If you average out the number of innocent victims killed by Saddam's regime annually, I'll bet we're already on pace to reduce it this year. Hitler still has a following to this day, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a monster who needed removal. I don't believe we're creating more terrorists than we're destroying.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 09:06 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
PDiddie wrote:


Hunting down terrorists is not a zero-sum game.

This isn't X-Box.

The US has spawned legions of terroists by attacking Iraq.

Terrorists who weren't thinking about becoming terrorists before that.

(Imagine a video game where every time you kill a baddie, ten more spring up in his place.)


That is a scary proposition. I've heard that fear before, and it is reasonable, but I've seen no evidence of it thus far. If you average out the number of innocent victims killed by Saddam's regime annually, I'll bet we're already on pace to reduce it this year. Hitler still has a following to this day, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a monster who needed removal. I don't believe we're creating more terrorists than we're destroying.


I agree, OCCOM.
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