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@reasoning logic,

Hi RL!

My sentiments exactly.

Journet well Sir!
Mark...

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@GoshisDead,

Hi Russ!

When it is not sincere.

Journet well!
Mark...

@mark noble,

We have to remember that there are two sides to a conversation like this. At some point a person who is given good tidings from the another habitually may make the opinion that the tidings giver is not sincere.

Also: In the natural process of habituation sentiment gives way to process. The process often becomes the focal point of the exchange draining meaning from the sentiment. The person going through the process habitually must then reach back to an ideal created in the beginning. So it may be that after a period of time the giver of tidings is reflecting a sincere ideal but no real sincerity.

1 Reply

@GoshisDead,

Hi Russ!

I agree! You have to accept that what I say I mean (regarding gestures). If you knew me in real life, you would understand. You can't read my body language or see my eyes - This i understand.
Anybody who has time for me is valued by me, even when being obtuse. Fools, I choose not to suffer, but even then I wish them no ill-will.

If my gestures are seen to be insincere, that is out of my control. But they are not given meaninglessly.

I am relatively new to the internet Russ, and don't fully understand why people are so distant from one another '?' Maybe I do, but won't be drawn.

I'm just going to keep being me.

You are a really nice fellow, by the way.

I hoe your day brings you laughter!
Mark...

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@spendius,

I want to preface what I'm about to say by acknowledging that it is often the case that people in this day and age, at least from my experience, are very against generalizing whole cultures, religions, or genders. But, this seems to be a bias in and of itself - people cry bigot or discrimination whenever someone claims that something is unequal, even if there is sufficient evidence for said claim. Some generalizations of whole cultures, religions and genders, contrary to popular belief, are true.

That said, it is very easy to overgeneralize, and that, from a philosophical perspective, is a formal fallacy. And in this case, I don't know of any evidence that supports the position that women are inherently less capable of philosophizing than men. What is your evidence for this? If your claim is simply supported by the historicity of human culture, you're being obtuse and ignorant. Women were not considered equal on any level, especially intellectually, in the past, and that is why they were often shunned from conversations of substance - not because they didn't have the capacity to contribute. Women were forced to retire when the cigars came out not because they were out of their league intellectually, but because rich, white men are often sexist pricks.

1 Reply

@GoshisDead,

Quote:

At what point does a genuine compliment or good sentiment become trite and meaningless?

I would say when it is said too often and to all and sundry where there is neither intention or responsibility to put any effort into making it come true. Or even any interest in whether it does or not.

I've seen "Have a Nice Day" painted on the concrete of a busy gas station forecourt. I can't remember if it was a BP gas station or not.

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@Zetherin,

You are making assertions and generalisations there Zethi at a mile a minute. Or 60 mph in old money. It's late here and the pub was particularly silly tonight so I'm a bit too lightheaded to give your post serious consideration. I'll try tomorrow.

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spendius wrote:

You are making assertions and generalisations there Zethi at a mile a minute.

But you say that as if it is a bad thing. It is fine to make assertions and to (sometimes) generalize. Why would it not be? In fact, doctors do, and must, make assertions and come to general conclusions often. For instance, they may generalize that X race or gender is more susceptible to Y disease. I think there's a difference between generalizing and overgeneralizing, as noted.

I look forward to hearing what your evidence is regarding why females are incapable of philosophical discussion.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
At what point does a genuine compliment or good sentiment become trite and meaningless?

I would say when it is said too often and to all and sundry where there is neither intention or responsibility to put any effort into making it come true. Or even any interest in whether it does or not.

I've seen "Have a Nice Day" painted on the concrete of a busy gas station forecourt. I can't remember if it was a BP gas station or not.

When, as often happens, a checkout clerk at a Supermarket sends me off with, "have a nice day" , I have sometimes replied, "I hope I will, but I am going to the hospital later to have a brain operation". You should see their jaws fall!

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

But a supermarket checkout is not a philosophy forum. It is impolite to seek dropped jaws at a supermarket checkout but a duty in a philosophy forum.

Which neatly answers Zethi's point--

Quote:

I look forward to hearing what your evidence is regarding why females are incapable of philosophical discussion.

Their jaws drop at the severities necessarily involved in philosophy and that's the last thing I want. It's a big problem in the debates about evolution theory and the teaching of it. Proponents of teaching evolution in all the schools have the matter on Ignore. A bit like the brass band playing as the ship sank in Titanic. The lot of the ladies is bad enough as it is without burdening them with silly talk about reality, rationality and scientific method. As Oswald Spengler said, or near enough, "men make destiny, women are destiny". Or "history". Both are true imo.

The idea that it is because rich white men are pricks is a self-flattering assertion.

BTW--Has Pif covered Herr Spengler yet?

1 Reply

@spendius,

My latest post on the Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution thread is a partial and much oversimplified answer to the question Zethi asked.

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mark wrote on the Can Nobody Exist thread--

Quote:

Kind regards!

You see--I don't think it is "kind". I think it is agressive. mark is trying to make out that he is a more decent man that I am. He is using fake politenesses as a weapon to create an invidious distinction between himself and those of us who feel, like Cordelia in King Lear, that our goodwill can be taken for granted and needs no expression.

1 Reply

spendius wrote:

The lot of the ladies is bad enough as it is without burdening them with silly talk about reality, rationality and scientific method

What does "the lot of the", in this sentence, mean?

There are women philosophers and women scientists in existence, just so we're clear.

1 Reply

@Zetherin,

Portion. As in--"It was my lot to go around the netball changing room after the game to tidy up any discarded items of clothing."

Fate. Burden. Bane. Encumbrance.

There are women footballers and cricketers too. There are no women commentators on the horse races though.

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spendius wrote:

Portion. As in--"It was my lot to go around the netball changing room after the game to tidy up any discarded items of clothing."

Fate. Burden. Bane. Encumbrance.

What is the burden of being a woman that you speak of?

spendius wrote:

There are women footballers and cricketers too

We know men, on average, are stronger and possess a greater athletic ability than women, but I wasn't aware that women are less capable of intellectual discussion.

I'm not even sure what you're claiming anymore. Are you claiming that women are less capable of intellectual discussion, or are you claiming that we shouldn't burden them with intellectual discussion (for some reason)?

1 Reply

@Zetherin,

Quote:

What is the burden of being a woman that you speak of?

Ask them. It is their favourite subject. Variations on "a woman's work is never done". Having babies. Would you have a baby Zethi if you could. I certainly wouldn't. Losing their charms almost as quickly as they acquire them. Having to listen to men.

What is "intellectual discussion"? Have you never had a discussion which you wouldn't want ladies to participate in or even overhear. On the economic theory of women's dress for example. See Veblen's short essay on the subject. Not many men can take that.

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@spendius,

Hi Spendius!

There is nothing false about me. I am what I am. I will cease to word my gestures to you in future, seeing as it makes you feel inferior in the decency-quarters.

You are projecting, by the way - Assuming my properties and values are in some way equal to yours. "One man's polite is another man's rude" after all.

Why do you feel like Cordelia? Are you A king's daughter?
What is your point? Do you assume that everyone in the world has read 'King Lear'?

And I don't think you should be speaking for others (those of us who feel).

Sod off!
Mark...

1 Reply

@mark noble,

That's more like it mark. We'll make a man of you yet. Going around greasing everybody up with tepid buttercup syrup is no good. It gives people a distorted sense of their worth which I don't think is good for them. No pain--no gain is the philosophical idea behind it.

1 Reply

spendius wrote:

What is "intellectual discussion"?

The type of discussion I thought you were saying women are incapable of engaging in. "silly talk about reality, rationality and scientific method". Matters of substance that require one to critically think. "Man talk", you'd probably refer to it as. Call it what you will.

Quote:

On the economic theory of women's dress for example. See Veblen's short essay on the subject. Not many men can take that.

You have a knack for attaching humorous remarks, semi-relevant to the discussion at hand, to the end of your serious, to-the-point statements. It's quite refreshing, but I still don't see your point here.

Quote:

No pain--no gain is the philosophical idea behind it.

I especially liked this one. It was a nice, condescending stab at philosophy. But please, go easy on mark, he's a genuinely nice guy.

Anyway, do you have evidence that women are incapable of discussing philosophy or having an intellectual discussions of any sort (clarified above)?

1 Reply

@Zetherin,

Intellectual discussion is a relative concept. The ideal, impossible to attain many experts say, is when every shred of subjectivity is absent. Anybody who thinks that women can shed any subjectivity does not understand them. Most men have difficulty.

Pub time.

1 Reply

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