Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
This sense of victimization has now reached a point

That is funny when the argument against the mosque is that the victims of 9/11 would be offended by the mosque.

Who is really playing the victim here? It isn't the muslims. It's the bigots pretending they are victims of muslim terrorism.

Or, another perspective is that the friends, and relatives of "the victims of 9/11" might be "offended" by the "intransigence" of some of those that are pro-mosque for that "one mosque spot." This Ground Zero mosque does not have any holy connotations, such as the Dome of the Rock in Israel. So, why the attitude relating to the mosque's placement?

It has nothing to do with Constitutional rights, but the willingness for some people to be offensive based on their Constitutional rights. We do not have to exercise every Constitutional right we have, at all times, everywhere.

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@kickycan,

kickycan wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

The NYT's has an extremely biased pro-american Muslim piece

Funny how you call this article extremely biased for simply coming at it from the perspective of the American Muslims, and then you post two opinion pieces (not even researched articles, just two assholes' opinions) from two of the most conservatively-slanted papers in the whole city to back up your argument.

Yeah, it's the NYTimes article that's biased.

Are you talking as a "native New Yorker"? Or, a transplant, that came to New York for the "bright lights and big city"?

1 Reply

@Foofie,

That depends. Are you talking as a "native" A2Ker? Or as some newbie on this site who doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

hawk, You're looking at the wrong issue; it's about equal rights under our laws.

Or, it is about the offensive intransigence of those that have a right under the U.S. law to build the mosque. One need not exercise every right that one has.

Those that are voicing their opinion to ONLY THE PLACEMENT of said mosque, are exercising their right to free speech. That right comes from the same Amendement One in the Constitution that protects religious freedom.

One cannot have it both ways, since Amendment One protects religious freedom AND freedom of speech. So, one cannot quote Constitutional rights without admitting that the anti-mosque "placement" folks are just exercising their "freedom of speech," based on Amendement One, and should not be called a bigot, since calling ad-hominems can be misconstrued as an attempt to curtail one's "freedom of speech."

1 Reply

@kickycan,

kickycan wrote:

That depends. Are you talking as a "native" A2Ker? Or as some newbie on this site who doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground?

No such animal as "native A2Ker"; however, native New Yorkers often do not see controversial issues from the same perspective as "transplants" from elsewhere, since, in my opinion, the transplant usually does not have the family history of living in NYC when it was a very different, and not so caring city. Or, more succinctly, many "transplants," if things do not work out so well in "the big city" can return home to the proverbial "homestead" to lick one's wounds, so to speak, while deciding what to do next that is new and exciting. Native New Yorkers usually do not have such alternatives. New York was the proverbial end of the road for his or her family, and that family had to endure a city when there was less concern for the average citizen. Yet, we stayed, and today might just live in the tri-state area, but they did not go off to Ohio, or some Podunk town that closes up at 8 p.m.

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@Foofie,

There is no "offense" here. It's created from people who's ability at rational thinking is nonexistent; they create fear from fear. Any American who follows the laws of our country has the right by citizenship to all the protections and freedoms afforded to all. Anything else is discrimination. In this case, it's bigoted discrimination, because it's targeted at Muslim Americans.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

There is no "offense" here. It's created from people who's ability at rational thinking is nonexistent; they create fear from fear. Any American who follows the laws of our country has the right by citizenship to all the protections and freedoms afforded to all. Anything else is discrimination. In this case, it's bigoted discrimination, because it's targeted at Muslim Americans.

You are 3,000 miles away from Ground Zero, and you think you know the thoughts of the families that lost someone on 9/11? What other super human abilities do you have?

It is not bigotry. It is free speech. The free speech that is protected in the First Amendment. The same First Amendment that protects freedom of religion.

And, one can make an argument that the intransigence of the pro-mosque placement folk, regarding the placement of the mosque, can even reflect a bigotry to the Christian families that lost loved ones on 9/11. We in NYC know that a preponderance of New York fireman and policeman are CATHOLIC!!!!!! You do know that the Catholic religion gave up their Crusades around 1,000 years ago! The Catholic faith lives in the PRESENT! Does Islam live in the present?

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@Foofie,

Thoughts of families are wrong-headed; they are the very essence of bigotry, because they are blaming all Muslims for 9-11. Do you mean tell us that your cultural background has no terrorist activities? If any restrictions are based on a whole group based on what a minority of their group did, then we must apply that same standard to all.

FYI, all cultures are not blameless for atrocities committed against their own or to others.

Is your culture free from what the Talibans did on 9-11?

We are a country of laws based on the US Constitution. "Thoughts of families" that imposes any kind of restrictions on innocent peoples in this country is wrong. If they commit a crime, they will be charged in a court of law, and pay for their crime. That applies to all citizens in this country. They should not be penalized for what somebody else did.

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@Foofie,

foofster, a couple of statements that made my head spin:

Quote:

We in NYC know that a preponderance of New York fireman and policeman are CATHOLIC!

So?

Quote:

You do know that the Catholic religion gave up their Crusades around 1,000 years ago

Our invasions in the Middle East in the last decade would seem to counter your assertion

Quote:

The Catholic faith lives in the PRESENT!

I am at a loss for words.

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@panzade,

Thanks panz.

bit my tongue till it bled...

1 Reply

@Rockhead,

At least you only bit your tongue. I peed my pants.

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

On the other hand, I'm in awe that so many "real" Americans who post on these blogs know what's right and what's wrong. That was not the case when I was a child growing up in California.

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@cicerone imposter,

amen to that, bro

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

kickycan wrote:

That depends. Are you talking as a "native" A2Ker? Or as some newbie on this site who doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground?

No such animal as "native A2Ker"; however, native New Yorkers often do not see controversial issues from the same perspective as "transplants" from elsewhere, since, in my opinion, the transplant usually does not have the family history of living in NYC when it was a very different, and not so caring city. Or, more succinctly, many "transplants," if things do not work out so well in "the big city" can return home to the proverbial "homestead" to lick one's wounds, so to speak, while deciding what to do next that is new and exciting. Native New Yorkers usually do not have such alternatives. New York was the proverbial end of the road for his or her family, and that family had to endure a city when there was less concern for the average citizen. Yet, we stayed, and today might just live in the tri-state area, but they did not go off to Ohio, or some Podunk town that closes up at 8 p.m.

Unless all native New Yorkers also think exactly alike, then I have no idea what point you think this post is making.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie - your "native" argument, is the type of argument that only embarassess you later on. I'll be sure to remember it when you comment on how things are run in Washington. Perhaps then, you'll understand that you can't get it or understand it or have the needed intellectual credentials to even comment on it. This native crap is laughable. Natives and transplants in ANY city have the same value, and the same rights.

A
R
T

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Are you saying that all "native New Yorkers" stay in New York and don't go to other places? Does a "native New Yorker" who moves to the wilds of, oh say, California retain the same rights and priviledges as those who are still in New York? Do they have the same thoughts on things that happen in New York?

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

You are 3,000 miles away from Ground Zero, and you think you know the thoughts of the families that lost someone on 9/11? What other super human abilities do you have?

You seem to be able to channel their inner thoughts just fine, why can't CI?

Foofie wrote:

It is not bigotry. It is free speech. The free speech that is protected in the First Amendment. The same First Amendment that protects freedom of religion.

The same amendment that puts your selfrighteous ass its place.

Foofie wrote:

And, one can make an argument that the intransigence of the pro-mosque placement folk, regarding the placement of the mosque, can even reflect a bigotry to the Christian families that lost loved ones on 9/11.

Certainly one can make this stupid and ignorant argument. I for one wont stop you from saying stupid things. You realiye that Christians were not the only people who died that day right? In fact, muslims who worked in the WTC died that day too.

You have no understanding of what bigotry is.

Foofie wrote:

We in NYC know that a preponderance of New York fireman and policeman are CATHOLIC!!!!!! You do know that the Catholic religion gave up their Crusades around 1,000 years ago!

If they had been Muslim?

Foofie wrote:

The Catholic faith lives in the PRESENT! Does Islam live in the present?

The catholics are the ones promoting new and important methods of birth control and disease prevention for people right? 2010, kids. Just sayin. Perhaps from one perspective, you may wish to view muslims as primitive to you, but in that case, I think your pretty bronze age yourself.

If you want to take it there.

A
R
Take it there

1 Reply

@failures art,

Foofie is ignorant of many things, and that includes what makes up the population of NYC.

Quote:

Immigrants make up 40 percent of New York City's population
By Fred Mazelis
31 July 2000

A survey of New York City households taken by the US Census Bureau in 1999 has revealed that 40 percent of the city's 7.4 million people are now foreign-born.

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@Foofie,

When you speak of native New Yorkers....are you referring to the real native New Yorkers?

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@cicerone imposter,

Just got back from my first trip to NY... everyone I spoke to had a different accent.

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Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

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