Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

@JTT,

Okay JTT - let me ask you this. Should America build an American Military Museum or a reproduction of the Capitol in Baghdad- as a memorial to and reminder of Democracy?

Because yeah, Democracy is not bad. And all people who practice Democracy aren't bad and didn't agree with the desecration of that city and those people.

Can you imagine the protests that would happen by the loved ones of all the 'collateral' damage (the name given to the dead in this war).

Would that be the right thing to do - whether there is the legal 'right' to do it or not?

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Iraq is not the US.

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@Cycloptichorn,

I am NOT grasping at straws. There were more than five hundred police and fire department personnel killed that day. Just because a civilian wasn't killed in that building doesn't mean no one was killed responding to that emergency- of which Tower 7 and the surrounding area WAS a part.

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@aidan,

You mean the whole of NYC was a part, don't you?

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@aidan,

aidan wrote:

What I have read says that the site is 400 feet from Tower 7 of the World Trade Center, which also fell in the attack.

Your point being? Tower 7 was damaged and did not collapse until 5:20 pm. About 8 hours after the WTC towers collapsed. Nobody died.

Your claim that the WTC is the internment of those who died is not actually true. As unpleasant as the thought is, they are interred all of the city and in the dump where the debris was hauled.

Why is it ok for the site to be close to strip bars, sleaze joints etc. but not a religious building. Actually, it is not a religious building. That is only a small part of the proposed building.

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@aidan,

aidan wrote:

I am NOT grasping at straws. There were more than five hundred police and fire department personnel killed that day. Just because a civilian wasn't killed in that building doesn't mean no one was killed responding to that emergency- of which Tower 7 and the surrounding area WAS a part.

No police or firefighters were killed in WTC 7.

You are grasping at straws here, badly. Tell me - what does it matter that the site is 400 ft away from WTC 7? At all? How is it harmful to anyone at all?

Nothing. It doesn't matter in any way. It's just a lame reason you are trying to slap on top of a feeling that you have inside but know you can't express without being labeled something that you'd prefer not to be called.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

You're ridiculous and illogical. Why the hell would anyone need to build a new hospital? Apparently there's already a hospital there in my example. That's where the medical malpractice took place- HELLO?

I was talking about the inherent mistrust that might result.

I'm not yelling. I'm just trying to tell you why I understand what these people might be feeling.

Stop telling me what I have to feel or think to make you agree with me. I don't give a **** whether you agree with me or not.

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@aidan,

Mistrust born of ignorance is not justified.

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@aidan,

aidan wrote:

But am I bigoted? No- or let me clarify. If I am bigoted, it's only against people who think they know ******* everything about everybody else and have decided what is the correct way for everyone to think and act.

Yup, that would be a bigot.

1 Reply

@aidan,

Quote:

Because yeah, Democracy is not bad. And all people who practice Democracy aren't bad and didn't agree with the desecration of that city and those people.

Don't fall prey to the Cicerone Imposter syndrome, Aidan. I agree with you on the above.

I don't see how this theoretical projection has anything to do with the subject at hand. If you want to continue in this vein, then maybe you could explain better what you mean.

1 Reply

@aidan,

Quote:

Stop telling me what I have to feel or think to make you agree with me. I don't give a **** whether you agree with me or not.

You're losing control of your emotions, which is normally a sign that you realize your argument is blown.

Quote:

I was talking about the inherent mistrust that might result.

That mistrust is based on bigotry. Lumping people together, who had nothing to do with a bad event, is bigotry. That's the fact of the matter. You can say that it should be excused, but unfortunately you are wrong. Totally wrong. That's not the way we do things here in America, and if people's feelings get hurt because we won't bow to their bigotry, tough ****.

It's easy to preach about openness and freedom and an inclusive society when there isn't a tough issue on the line. Times like this are when it gets revealed who actually believes in equality and who doesn't. Which side are you on? The one that presumes that people are innocent and equal, or the one who doesn't?

Cycloptichorn

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@JTT,

Exactly who are "those people?"

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@aidan,

Funny you should bring it up. Just last night, I was sitting having a beer with a bunch of bigots and we were discussing this very thing.

I said to my friend Henry,...................

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

As I said above, nobody wants to admit to anyone, including themselves, that they are opposing things for bigoted reasons. But that doesn't mean that's not what's going on.

I don't believe that it is logical or that it follows that someone who recognizes the pain and suffering of others -- even IF those others are bigots -- is a bigot themselves.

1 Reply

@JTT,

What about the pain and suffering of all those Iraqi muslims who lost hundreds of thousands of loved ones that Americans killed from collateral damage? I guess their pain and suffering is "different."

You do remember "shock and awe" don't you? Maybe not.

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I have to wonder if the people that proposed building this mosque knew there would be this firestorm of controversy about it.

I know the mosque is only going to be a small part of the site, but did they know what kind of hornets nest they were kicking over?
And if they did, or even if they had suspicions about it, I cant help but wonder WHY they continued.

It seems to me that if they had an idea this was going to happen, then wouldnt it make sense to consider moving, hust to avoid the kind of controversy that surrounds them now.

Let me be clear, I support their right to build this mosque, and I have said that I support building the mosque at that location.

However, if building it there is going to create this kind of ill will and division, wouldnt it make more sense to find another site?
Did they want this kind of controversy just so they could play the victim?

I dont know the answer to that, but it seems to me that nobody is even considering that aspect of this, and I wonder why not?

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@mysteryman,

It doesn't matter; the firestorm is being fueled by hate and bigotry.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

Why would they consider that when there are already mosques in the area as close or closer?

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@cicerone imposter,

I dont deny that, to a large part, but that doesnt change the fact that the people behind this mosque may have wanted that exact thing to happen, so they could play the victim.

IF, and I stress IF, thats the case, then there is more going on here then we know about.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

I doubt that very much; the city zoning commission gave their approval without any hint of anything like what's happened to this coat factory site.

Bigots came out of the wood-works when they saw fellow bigots increased their hew and cry. They have no concept about the US Constitution, only their miserable "feelings."

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Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

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