Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

@cicerone imposter,

That's exactly what the ICJ is for, CI. Again, if I'm not mistaken, the US had a big hand in forming that body. When it got to judgment day, all of a sudden it was a bad idea.

0 Replies

@JTT,

That's only one example of many that the American government doesn't know how to spend money. We have financial problems at home, and yet our current president is determined to spend billions on a war in Afghanistan. All this while our infrastructure goes neglected, and many social services for Americans are being cut to the bone - if they still exist at all.

Do you know of any government that spends money wisely? Please list them for me, because I'm not aware of any.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Are you complaining about the huge sums that it seems the US government forced the Vietnamese to spend or are you complaining about that pittance of $9 million bucks [it's estimated that $300 million is needed] to aid those affected by that crime against humanity, agent orange?

1 Reply

@JTT,

You missed the concept of my previous post, and it's explained in very simple English. Your need to ask questions for clarity shows you didn't understand my post at all.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

You missed the concept of my previous post, and it's explained in very simple English. Your need to ask questions for clarity shows you didn't understand my post at all.

What did I miss? I clicked on my response, the one that you referenced and it led to Post: # 4,332,508 , which was,

Quote:

@JTT,
Let's do a little math here.

The US has also forced Vietnam to make immense efforts to find the remains of missing Americans, the cost of each body recovered reportedly being some dollars 1.7m

Now,

http://www.miafacts.org/how_many_missing.htm

suggests that "933 have been 'accounted for' ". Let's knock that down to 900 as some were "returned alive's".

So, 900 x $1.7 million = $1,530,000,000

Seems a preposterously large amount, but let's not dwell on the figure. We can all appreciate that it was a huge chunk of change. Now remember, this was to recover the remains of soldiers who took part in, let's be generous and call it a war.

Now what was the figure that Congress had appropriated to help the millions of Vietnamese suffering from agent orange. Correct me if I'm wrong, but $9,000,000 rings a bell.

Jesus, was it really that miniscule an amount, could that be possible? I must be mistaken.

You might be confusing "missed" with ignored. What might engender a degree of concern about US economic woes. What might engender a degree of concern for something that y'all brought on yourselves?

Next you'll be blaming the Vietnamese.

1 Reply

@JTT,

No, you're confusing why the US spent money the way they did. My response was that all governments are guilty of incompetence in the way they spend money. That "is" an answer, believe it or not.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

My response was that all governments are guilty of incompetence in the way they spend money. That "is" an answer, believe it or not.

I guess it all depends on how you define 'is'. Smile

I know it is a possible answer to some potential question but there's not been any raised around this thread that it would fit.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Seems you have difficulty with relationships that explains why governments do not spend as we would hope or desire. You can complain all you want about why our government spent more for bringing home MIAs vs what was spent for the Vietnamese people, but you have missed why that happens to most government mismanagement of their money in almost every country of this world. Complain all you want; it'll get your nowhere.

0 Replies

CI, you are feeding JTT. Most on this thread are not interested in your back and forth, as the thread was about the mosque placement, and the circumstances about it, and there were many pages of attempted reasoned disagreement. Between you, you are killing the thread, or already have.

Was this the idea, JTT, or do you have no self control at all? CI, do you ever read initial pages on threads?

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Those who provide cover for people who have committed the above, people like MM, really aren't much better than the original perpetrators.

I do not think any "cover" was being "provided" by asking a salient question, in context of the inability to see any good that the U.S. has done:
- The Berlin Airlift
- The Korean War
- Not vanquishing Germany after WWII, in context of Germany having had plans to turn Eastern Europe into a big plantation to feed the Fatherland, populated by ethnic Germans.
- The Emancipation Proclamation
- Allowing every religion, every ethnic/nationality to become U.S. citizens and live a lifestyle commensurate with their efforts.
- Sending men to fight the Kaiser in WWI
- Food stamps and social security (that serves as a pension for some expatriates that work in the U.S. and then retire back to their country of origin).

Get it? If one only focusses on supposed negatives, when there are also positives, many a sentient being might be suspecting that one is listening to an idealogue, rather than a purveyor of "balanced truth."

And, to assert that any diversion from addressing the supposed sins is tantamount to giving cover to the sinners, is specious, since raising a question is not giving cover to anyone, and claiming the question is giving cover, could be misconstrued as an attempt to silence such a question. Not raising a question could be thought of as giving tacit approval for an idealogue to continue an effort at proselytization which may or may not be correct.

1 Reply

@talk72000,

talk72000 wrote:

Quote:
Palestinians dancing in the street after 9/11.

5 Israelis were dancing on a roof top as the WTC were burning.

And maybe ten Jews said let Barabas go, so the logical conclusion is hate all Jews?

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

I have only been to Vietnam 1 time, and that was when I took my dad there.
I have told you about that trip.

But like you, I found the people there to be a very forgiving people, who harbor no ill will to Americans.
When they found out my dad was a veteran of that war, they treated him with the utmost respect, and seemed to go out of their way to show that he was ot hated.

JTT seems to think that all veterans are war criminals.
I have encountered his type before in another thread.

1 Reply

@talk72000,

And you have absolute, stand up in court, irrefutable evidence that they were Israeli?

0 Replies

@ossobuco,

osso, You are spot on! I will ignore him in the future, and thanks for awakening my senses. Wink

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

Now that you mention it, I have a recollection about some of our discussions.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

Somewhere in the neighborhood of three million Vietnamese slaughtered and once again, it's all about the USA

So are you holding the US responsible for all of the deaths in Vietnam?
You seem to be forgetting that several thousand vietnamese civilians were murdered by North Vietnamese forces and by the Viet Cong. Their only crime was being from South Vietnam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties

Quote:

Deaths Caused by North Vietnamese Forces
North Vietnamese forces killed about 130,000 civilian and prisoners of war between 1957 and 1975. Rummel's summary has a mid-level estimate of 17,000 South Vietnamese civil servants killed by North Vietnamese forces (including the Viet Cong). In addition another 49,000 civilians were executed for arious reasons.[12] An additional 50,000 refuges were killed, as well as 1,260 civilians during the shelling of Saigon, plus another 2,800-6,000 civilians killed in Hue during the Tet Offensive.[13] About 130 US POWs and 16,000 South Vietnamese POWs were executed by their communist captors

Also, lets not forget the people that were executed by the North Vietnamese after they won and were consolidating poower.

Quote:

Deaths Caused by North Vietnamese Communist Power Consolidation
An estimated 95,000 civilians died in the communist re-education camps, another 500,000 were involved in forced labor projects, which killed 48,000 civilians. Another 100,000 were executed. Finally, 400,000 boat people died while trying to flee Vietnam. This is 643,000 killed during the consolidation of communist rule.[19] This consolidation ended around 1984, although boat people deaths occurred through 1988. A similar high death toll occurred in North Vietnam during 1950s when the Communists consolidated power in that geographic region

Do you blame the US for those deaths also?

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

We talked about some places to visit, and some places to see.
You were on an organized tour, from what you said, and didnt get the chance to visit some of the places I mentioned.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Sorry to natter. Some of us get frustrated.

2 Replies

@ossobuco,

Understandably.

0 Replies

JTT only succeeds in derailing threads and changing their entire purpose when he is allowed to do so with assistance.

1 Reply

Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know