46
   

Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

 
 
revelette
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 06:26 am
@sumac,
The author is asking Muslims for more than what we ask people of other religions and that is putting one religion over another which is unconstitutional. He is an apologist for those wanting to treat Muslims guilty of terrorism unless proven to be twice as moderate as their fellow Muslims.

We have people who are trained to follow terrorist suspects. Muslims do not have live in glass houses to prove they are not terrorist having their privacy and freedoms invaded in order to prove they are not terrorist for the public.

This Imam has already been checked out when he went over seas with Karen Hughes; I imagine there are no secrets left. But even he were not known by the intelligence agencies unless there was some reason to suspect him of being terrorist, then he has a right to his privacy and does not need to shout to heavens that he is not a terrorist by condemning every Muslim the US currently is not in agreement with just to satisfy fears of the public.


sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 07:32 am
@revelette,
I agree.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 08:12 am
@revelette,
Quote:
But even he were not known by the intelligence agencies unless there was some reason to suspect him of being terrorist, then he has a right to his privacy and does not need to shout to heavens that he is not a terrorist by condemning every Muslim the US currently is not in agreement with just to satisfy fears of the public.


You are absolutely right that he should not have to shout to the heavens that he is not a terrorist. But sadly, that is the position that Muslims are in due to the overwhelming number of attacks being carried out by their brethren in the name of allah. Maybe, just maybe, if moderate Muslims would begin to speak out loudly against the terrorist acts committed by other Muslims, non-Muslims will have less reason to demand that moderate Muslims somehow "prove" they are not terrorists.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 08:20 am
@CoastalRat,
....and bring down the wrath of the real terrorists whom you propose that they rail against?
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 08:23 am
@Intrepid,
It will be a power struggle anyway.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 08:34 am
@CoastalRat,
Oddly enough, I did not feel the need to decry the terrorist acts of the Irish Republican Army.
joefromchicago
 
  5  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 08:54 am
Glenn Beck is holding a rally on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on the anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech. Some people are offended by that. I'm sure that all of the sensitive, caring people who are protesting the "ground zero" mosque will take a few moments out of their busy heckling schedules to let Beck know that, while they agree that he has the right to hold his rally, he should move it a few blocks away because he's causing some people unnecessary angst and he's only hurting his own message. No doubt he'll be persuaded.
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 08:55 am
@Intrepid,
Quote:
....and bring down the wrath of the real terrorists whom you propose that they rail against?


And therein lies the problem Intrepid. As a Christian, I have no problem pointing out and speaking out about the absurdity of someone committing violence in the name of Christ. Of course, I have no fear of an organized fanatic coming after me for my words. This is the issue with Islam. There are large fanatical factions that are violent. But if, as many believe here, the majority of Muslims are peace-loving, non-violent people, then they must outnumber the extremists and if most of them stood up against what their brethren are doing I would think it would make a difference.

sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 08:58 am
@joefromchicago,
Yeah, right. Those are the very people who wound find it offensive.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 08:59 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
@CoastalRat,
Oddly enough, I did not feel the need to decry the terrorist acts of the Irish Republican Army.


But then again, those acts are mostly confined to a small area (ie, not worldwide) and are more political in nature. You might feel differently if the IRA suddenly began carrying out attacks worldwide and at the same rate of the attacks by Muslim extremists.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 09:33 am
@CoastalRat,
CoastalRat wrote:

Quote:
....and bring down the wrath of the real terrorists whom you propose that they rail against?


And therein lies the problem Intrepid. As a Christian, I have no problem pointing out and speaking out about the absurdity of someone committing violence in the name of Christ. Of course, I have no fear of an organized fanatic coming after me for my words. This is the issue with Islam. There are large fanatical factions that are violent. But if, as many believe here, the majority of Muslims are peace-loving, non-violent people, then they must outnumber the extremists and if most of them stood up against what their brethren are doing I would think it would make a difference.




As a Christian, I would also have no problem speaking out. However, I am not a high profile Christian as the Iman is a high profile Muslim. Therein lies the difference.

Also, I don't think you will find extremist Christians as extreme as the extremist Muslims. I say this only in the sense of what I have seen and in no way mean to imply anything negative against Muslims in general.

A large number of peace loving people are still no match for a small number of extremists who will kill and mame without compunction.
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 09:43 am
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
Glenn Beck is holding a rally on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on the anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech. Some people are offended by that. I'm sure that all of the sensitive, caring people who are protesting the "ground zero" mosque will take a few moments out of their busy heckling schedules to let Beck know that, while they agree that he has the right to hold his rally, he should move it a few blocks away because he's causing some people unnecessary angst and he's only hurting his own message. No doubt he'll be persuaded.


No Glenn Beck fan here, but I'm wondering why anyone would have a problem with this. I mean, just because King gave a famous speech on this date at a certain spot means that speeches by others cannot be made from there on that anniversary date? I don't understand the big deal.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 09:44 am
@CoastalRat,
Quote:
No Glenn Beck fan here, but I'm wondering why anyone would have a problem with this. I mean, just because King gave a famous speech on this date at a certain spot means that speeches by others cannot be made from there on that anniversary date? I don't understand the big deal.


Just because a bunch of people got killed on 9/11/01 a few blocks away, Muslims aren't allowed to build Mosques any more in NYC? I don't understand the big deal.

Cycloptichorn
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 09:45 am
@Intrepid,
Definate point in regards the Imam, Intrepid. But, isn't real faith and real belief about speaking out for what is right and against what is wrong regardless of personal consequences?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 09:47 am
http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/fox-news-v-bunny.gif

Cycloptichorn
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 09:48 am
@CoastalRat,
CoastalRat wrote:

Definate point in regards the Imam, Intrepid. But, isn't real faith and real belief about speaking out for what is right and against what is wrong regardless of personal consequences?


Sure, but not to the point of being stupid about it. I wouldn't back down from anything, but I wouldn't go looking for trouble either.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 09:49 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
@CoastalRat,
Quote:

No Glenn Beck fan here, but I'm wondering why anyone would have a problem with this. I mean, just because King gave a famous speech on this date at a certain spot means that speeches by others cannot be made from there on that anniversary date? I don't understand the big deal.



Just because a bunch of people got killed on 9/11/01 a few blocks away, Muslims aren't allowed to build Mosques any more in NYC? I don't understand the big deal.


Is it a big deal? I don't know. Not to me down here in SC. This is a NY issue, not a national issue. New Yorkers can let them build or fight the building of it as they see fit. Although I can understand why people are against it being built where it is proposed, I personally don't much care.

Also, nobody as far as I know is saying they cannot build in NYC, just not in the area of the 9/11 attacks.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 09:49 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Al Sharpton has a Rally the same day here. I'm sure Fox news will use some nice footage of black marchers from Sharpton's Rally while hardly (if at all) mentioning it.

A
R
T
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 09:54 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Oddly enough, I did not feel the need to decry the terrorist acts of the Irish Republican Army.


Without the British, the Irish would still be speaking Celtic. As it is, the Irish have a hard time pronouncing "th."

My point is what were the British supposed to do with Ireland and its population, so close to Britain for all those centuries? Exploitation was the name of the game for any country that raised itself above other competing nations.

So, in some ways, the Irish may be ungrateful for the civilizing effects of British exploitation. And, since the "famine" in 1850 could have still fed many Irish in Ireland, but the British continued to export food out of Ireland, the result was that the United States benefitted by getting all those Irish immigrants. Where would our urban civil service jobs be without the Irish to have been police, fireman, trolley car conductors/drivers, etc., etc.

So, the violence of the Irish Republican Army was just willing to hurt innocent British citizens for a cause that reflected ingratitude to the British for the fact that they "shared" their language and culture, not to mention their laws and overall civilization with an original group of uncivilized peasants, in the opinion of some people.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Aug, 2010 09:54 am
@CoastalRat,
CoastalRat wrote:

Quote:
@CoastalRat,
Quote:

No Glenn Beck fan here, but I'm wondering why anyone would have a problem with this. I mean, just because King gave a famous speech on this date at a certain spot means that speeches by others cannot be made from there on that anniversary date? I don't understand the big deal.



Just because a bunch of people got killed on 9/11/01 a few blocks away, Muslims aren't allowed to build Mosques any more in NYC? I don't understand the big deal.


Is it a big deal? I don't know. Not to me down here in SC. This is a NY issue, not a national issue. New Yorkers can let them build or fight the building of it as they see fit. Although I can understand why people are against it being built where it is proposed, I personally don't much care.


Oh, I understand why people are against it as well: it riles up Republicans before the election. That's the only reason national Republicans are even discussing it.

I guess I should point out that NY already solved this issue - by approving the mosque to move forward.

Quote:
Also, nobody as far as I know is saying they cannot build in NYC, just not in the area of the 9/11 attacks.


If we were to follow that thread to the end, CR, you'd get tangled up in knots trying to defend the idea of building it elsewhere. How far is far enough? Where is the 'no Muslim worship allowed' line drawn?

Cycloptichorn
 

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