46
   

Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

 
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 06:28 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I have to say, it seems like you and parados are right. It appears that an anti-Muslim brou-ha-ha is being intentionlly whipped up on this issue. Thank you for the facts.

Thanks for changing your opinion in response to the facts. Please ignore my last response to you.

Yes, it does look like a bunch of anti-Muslim hecklers whipping up a can bigotry for national media consumption. Notice that those of us who happen to live in the New York area tend to be fairly indifferent to the project; the anti-Mosque passion comes from correspondents posting from places far from New York.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 06:41 pm
@Phoenix32890,
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I don't think that I have a vote................what I have said is simply my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

Two pages earlier, Phoenix32890 wrote:
Let the Muslims built whatever type of house of worship that they desire.............but not right near ground zero.

Source

Excuse me? How is your earlier quote distinguishable from "don't let the Muslims build a house of worship near Ground Zero?" How does that not imply that you---or the people of New York, or someone---have a vote in the matter?

Look, I'm sure that over the course of your life, you have met many people who had a negative emotional reaction when they saw your Jewish physique. (Don't fool yourself: antisemitism is just as alive as anti-Islamism.) So what say to people "said their their opinion, nothing more, nothing less", that they'd rather you stayed out of their sight? Having met you in real life, I"m pretty sure you would reply: "That's too damn bad for you. Suck it up!" You would probably append some choice words, too. And that's pretty much what the Mosque-builders would reply to your opinion. That's a good thing---in your case as in theirs.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 06:47 pm
It is really erroneous to refer to the building as a mosque. It will be a 13 story building that will house other facilities beside a mosque, and it will be open to the public to use. The center's board will include members of other religions and they will explore including an interfaith chapel at the center.

Quote:
Plan for mosque near World Trade Center site moves ahead

A proposal to build a mosque steps from Ground Zero received the support of a downtown committee despite some loved ones of 9/11 victims finding it offensive.

The 13-story mosque and Islamic cultural center was unanimously endorsed by the 12-member Community Board 1's financial district committee.

The $100 million project, called the Cordoba House, is proposed for the old Burlington Coat Factory building at Park Place and Broadway, just two blocks from the World Trade Center site.

"I think it will be a wonderful asset to the community," said committee Chairman Ro Sheffe.

Imam Feisel Abdul Rauf, who helped found the Cordoba Initiative following the 9/11 attacks, said the project is intended to foster better relations between the West and Muslims.

He said the glass-and-steel building would include a 500-seat performing arts venue, a swimming pool and a basketball court. "There's nothing like it," said Rauf, adding that facilities will be open to all New Yorkers.

Daisy Khan, executive director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement and Cordoba Initiative board member, said the project has received little opposition.

"Whatever concerns anybody has, we have to make sure to educate them that we are an asset to the community," Khan said.

Khan said her group hopes construction on the project will begin by the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

Once built, 1,000 to 2,000 Muslims are expected to pray at the mosque every Friday, she said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/05/06/2010-05-06_plan_for_mosque_near_world_trade_center_site_moves_ahead.html


This is an artist's rendering of the proposed building.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/05/06/amd_wtc_mosque.jpg

It doesn't even really look like a mosque.

The people behind this project really don't seem to be insensitive at all.

And there really aren't a lot of people protesting this building. Now that I know Pat Robertson is behind trying to block it, I suspect that his group is behind most of the agitating, and not the families of 9/11 victims. And Robertson has his own reasons for doing things. He may be trying to exploit the tragedy of 9/11, and "sensitivity to the victims' families feelings" to generate anti-Muslim sentiment for his own purposes. He does not like Muslims, all Muslims.

I think the media should back off and not create an issue where there might not be one.
Phoenix32890
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 06:50 pm
@Thomas,
I don't have a "vote", but I am entitled to my opinion, and they do, theirs. There is a big difference between the type of anti-Semitism that you are describing, and the reaction of people to the acts of some Muslims where the New York center of commerce was destroyed.

I am appalled that YOU of all people make that sort of comparison.

I am really interested in the opinion of my cousin, the Jewish surgeon, (you know, all those Jews are doctors Shocked ) whose back was broken went he went down to Ground zero to assist people who needed help.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 06:59 pm
@Phoenix32890,
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I am appalled that YOU of all people make that sort of comparison.

Why? What's wrong with my comparison between hatred of Jews and hatred of Muslims?

Quote:
I am really interested in the opinion of my cousin, the Jewish surgeon, (you know, all those Jews are doctors Shocked ) whose back was broken went he went down to Ground zero to assist people who needed help.

He's a hero---as is everybody else who put his life on the line that day. But what does this have to do with him being Jewish? It's quite likely that some Muslims put their lives on the line as well. How does that determine who can build a house of worship near Ground Zero and who can't?
ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:12 pm
@firefly,
Thanks, that's useful.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:19 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
He's a hero---as is everybody else who put his life on the line that day. But what does this have to do with him being Jewish? It's quite likely that some Muslims put their lives on the line as well. How does that determine who can build a house of worship near Ground Zero and who can't?


The only reason that I mentioned it was because of the way this thread was heading. Actually, I have no more to say about this entire issue. Let's just say that we "agree to disagree", and leave it at that.
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:29 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

High Seas wrote:

Concurring - and I'm in Manhattan. Banning someone or something on grounds of religious prejudice is unconstitutional and abhorrent - even in wartime, where an emergency can be shown to exist. Gen. Ulysses S. Grant banned the "Israelites" from territories controlled by his armies in 1862, during a very difficult period in the Civil War. That order had to be rescinded 3 days later. There's even less excuse for similar actions now.


That order was intended to stop Jewish merchants from selling supplies to the Union Army, so only nice Gentile business men can profit from the Union Army's needs. The Secretary of War for the Confederacy was Judah P. Benjamin, of German Jewish extraction.

Secretary Benjamin's religion is as irrelevant now as it was when Gen. (later President) Grant gave that order. Judah Benjamin was an honorable man and a loyal son of the Confederacy, which by 1862 was starving and desperate to sell its cotton, while textile makers in the North and overseas were equally desperate to buy it so their factories could finally resume production. The Union army never bought cotton, per se, only uniforms, and while many suppliers were crass profiteers they can't be conflated with black market traders running cotton out of the Confederacy and guns and ammunition in. Grant was the first US president to visit a synagogue, for the record; his order #11 was in no way motivated by religious sentiment, only intended to put a stop to black market trading of cotton. Religious conspiracy theories - yours or anybody else's - only obscure facts.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  4  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:34 pm
@Phoenix32890,
Phoenix32890 wrote:
The only reason that I mentioned it was because of the way this thread was heading.

Where was the thread heading? As far as I am concerned, it was heading towards a discussion of whether emotional aversions against innocent Jews (like, for example, you) is morally equivalent to emotional aversion against innocent Muslims (like, for example, those who want to build a Muslim Center two blocks from Ground Zero). I continue to assert that it is. You find that appalling, but when I asked you to back up your finding with reasons, all you had was an inspirational story about your hero relative.

Phoenix32890 wrote:
Actually, I have no more to say about this entire issue. Let's just say that we "agree to disagree", and leave it at that.

Fair enough. I would have been curious to learn more about your distinction between anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim resentments. But, whatever floats your boat....
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:08 pm
this thread taken in it's entirety, could make an an excellent doctoral thesis in the perspective of Peter Berger. makes me wish I was still an academic.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:11 pm
@Thomas,
I did see your later post, Thomas - but I wanted to clarify my former opinion - in case your earlier post causes some members to think that I thought Muslims should be disallowed the erection of a mosque on Ground Zero.

I questioned the motives and sensitivity of those wishing to erect such a building on Ground Zero. As you and Joe so unassailably state - it is a free country--one that makes me secure in my right to ask those questions. (imagine friendly emoticon here)

ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:15 pm
@firefly,
Actually, it looks a tad like the building that was recently renovated, for good or ill, at Columbus Circle..
link, pre renovation: http://www.nyc-architecture.com/MID/MID095.htm

Venetian motifs... huh, they tend to the byzantine.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:16 pm
@Lash,
I agree with you completely. Your points are very similar to mine.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:19 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

We don't have anybody, to my knowledge, like Pat Robertson in Canada. To that I say Amen. I don't understand the radical right in the U.S. or why that man has so much, as you say,power.
well Intrepid keep that in mind when we we heathen americans express our fears and dislikes of those "christians" because they are the ones constantly in our faces.


I will do that since I, in no way, associate myself with those guys.

Oh, you Americans aren't heathens. You just don't wash as much as we do. Smile
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:19 pm
@Thomas,
Sure, they are within their rights. It's okay if I interpret their exercise of those rights as a gesture of supreme contempt, right? I don't feel any obligation to crawl up on my belly, piddle on the floor, as say 'Please sir, may I have another'. That's my exercise of a right.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:21 pm
I don't know Peter Berger, but here's wiki as a quick glance -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_L._Berger

I slightly know John Berger - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Berger. Famous for his book, Ways of Seeing, which I have but have not read through, an indictment of me, not him; and probably for much else. At least the title seems to apply.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  4  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:35 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Quote:
The only reason that I mentioned it was because of the way this thread was heading.


I see it as heading in the right direction. Given my initial sentiments, I have now changed my mind (as stated in earlier post) as to my feelings on this. Others caused me to question my thoughts and to look more closely at the facts.

It is not often that I am persuaded to a different way of thinking, but it does happen. I am not closed to considering alternatives.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:38 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

Darn, high seas. We agree on something.


i was gonna say that


Me too.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:54 pm
@Intrepid,
Some of us have gotten over all that washing stuff..

0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 09:00 pm
I'll emphasize that I agree with Robert and Dys on the US overreaction. We are, as a nation, non comprehendo on the complexity and violence of stuff going on outside our borders. This is true of other nations as well, but tunnel visioned perspective doesn't serve even ourselves well.
0 Replies
 
 

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