Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

@BillRM,

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A note hingehead name the country you are from and just for fun of it we will see if we can find times where your nation acted in it best interests moral questions or not.

I'm from Australia, and I freely acknowledge my country has done some shitty things for shitty reasons. Participating in the Iraq invasion was just one of them. I would never support/justify the shitty decisions because "its my country and its never wrong", like you seem to be doing. I'm Jeffersonian in my thinking - it is a citizen's responsibility to question and participate in government.

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone.

You however seem willing to abrogate your responsibilities in this regard through denying the possibility that your government has ever erred.

The price of liberty is eternal vigilence.

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@hingehead,

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'balance out'? WTF? It was petty at best. How dare Iranians rise up against the puppet government we instated? If Iran was such a threat to the US why didn't it have the balls to remove Iran's non-elected leader?

So it is your position that our puppet was not far better then the religion dictatorship that then took over in Iran?

That forcing Iran women back into the stone age and forcing them out of public life was better for them for example? Bringing back such charming behavior as stoning women to death is better or more moral?.<see google news>

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Why hasn't it repeated with more left leaning govts in South America elected in the last ten years?

When and if it become needed we will do so IE if they become so unstable that our oil supply is threaten for example or annoying wars break out between them.

Now sadly we are just watching those left learning government moving more and more toward being open dictatorships and their economic being destroy at the same time.

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@hingehead,

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I'm from Australia, and I freely acknowledge my country has done some shitty things for shitty reasons

.

How is the plans of your government to censor/control your access to the web coming along?

Second question do you happen to remember if the US lost two or three aircraft carriers in defending your country from the Empire of Japan?

Sorry we "only" lost one main carrier the Lexington.

By the way do you happen to know where the hell the British carriers happen to had been?

I remember reading somewhere that we ask them for carriers support before the battle of Midway and was turn down.

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@BillRM,

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How is the plans of your government to censor/control your access to the web coming along?

Second question do you happen to remember if the US lost two or three aircraft carriers in defending your country from the Empire of Japan?

You really aren't very bright are you?

A debate is when you say why you disagree with something I say.

Truly your concrete thinking shines through. Am I supposed to respond 'Oh, of course Bill, you're right, my govt is trying to get kiddy porn off the web, and without US military support Japan was a massive threat in world war 2 to Australia's sovereignty, so therefore the US has never made a mistake and I should blindly accept anything it does'?

Put your analyst on danger money baby.

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@hingehead,

It would be nice if the citizens of a nation that the US happen to had save at some cost in human lives from a very bad faith indeed would act slightly more respectful as a result.

Something I see no sign of at all in your case.

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@BillRM,

Do you not read my posts? You don't want respect, you want blind acceptance.

There are a ton of US citizens on these boards that I love and respect as virtual brothers and sisters. They love their country, but acknowledge mistakes made and bemoan actions that belittle its heritage.

You on the other hand act like a sycophantic yes man. Your refusal to acknowledge those errors and your petulant childishness towards others who aren't in denial belittles you in the eyes of many.

Go on try. Think of something your country has done that makes you feel a little guilty or uncomfortable. Grenada. Contra. Freedom fries. Something. Or just wear a badge saying 'My country, right or right' or 'Thomas Jefferson is spinning in his grave'

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
So when was the last time that Hawaiians asked the nation to settle a zoning question in the Pearl Harbor vicinity?

Hmm when was the last time that the Japanese ask to build a Shinto temple near by Pearl Harbor?

Since when are all Japanese people Shinto?

Also, since you never ever think before you speak... Shinto shrines in Hawaii.

Hawaii's Plantation Village has a shrine in it and it sits right on Pearl Harbor!!!

Dun dun DUNN!

Seriously, let this be a lesson to look **** up before you post it. you'll save yourself some embarrassment.

A
R
T

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@failures art,

He doesn't comprehend embarrassment.

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@failures art,

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Since when are all Japanese people Shinto?

Doing a little game playing I see and for some strange reason I should have given a detail break down of the religion make up of Japan population as of the 1940s in my reply?

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@cicerone imposter,

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He doesn't comprehend embarrassment.

Surely not when fools are playing games.

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@BillRM,

Japan? Pearl Harbor is in the US. You are dumb!

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@BillRM,

Hmmm. Adding stuff to posts as afterthoughts are we?

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Sorry we "only" lost one main carrier the Lexington.
By the way do you happen to know where the hell the British carriers happen to had been?
I remember reading somewhere that we ask them for carriers support before the battle of Midway and was turn down.

By your reasoning the American Navy was only there because your government thought it was 'in their best interests'. I imagine the few British carriers there were, were in the Atlantic, seeing how the German forces had a base about 15 miles from the English shore it seems reasonable to me that they were acting 'in their own best interests' regarding sending ships to Midway. I thought you said 'acting in your own best interests' was the way govts should act? Or did you mean only US govts act that way.

So you're saying I should show you personal respect because your govt actions in WW2, protecting it's interests, coincided with the preservation of my nation's sovereignty? Sorry. There are many great things, real and potential, about the US. You are not one of them. But enough of the red herrings you toss out when cornered.

Your comments yet again showing you obfuscate on the central question of your assertion that the US govt is infallible.

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@hingehead,

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'Thomas Jefferson is spinning in his grave'

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Think of something your country has done that makes you feel a little guilty or uncomfortable

Jefferson send the very first military force against Muslins in our young county history so I question if he would now have problem with how we are dealing with the middle east today.

Off hand I can not think of too must I could feel guilty about except for minor things.

Turning back the refugee ship full of Jews fleeing the Nazis would be one of those things

We could had treated the American Indians slightly better and more humane. Give that we could not have arm Indian nations that had a history of not always picking our side as in the French and Indians war we needed to move them West of the Mississippi to start with however.

Jefferson by the way was in agreement over that need.

Let see what else should I feel guilty about?

Hmm I think we should had made the Japanese Americans placed in camps economically whole right after World War Two even those given what they knew at the time placing them in those camps and away from the West Coast seem like commonsense and not something I off hand feel guilty about.

All an all I do not see too must I have a need to feel guilty about.

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@hingehead,

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I imagine the few British carriers there were, were in the Atlantic, seeing how the German forces had a base about 15 miles from the English shore it seems reasonable to me that they were acting 'in their own best interests' regarding sending ships to Midway. I thought you said 'acting in your own best interests' was the way govts should act? Or did you mean only US govts act that way.

You seem to know less about the British naval then I do and that is somewhat odd given where you are living.

I need to do some more research on the subject as I had run across little comments here and there that off hand does not make sense.

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@BillRM,

OMG Bill, you did it! Thank you. Do you feel better for that?

Odd that you can only find one thing in the last 100 years. Nothing in vietnam/cambodia/laos that was a tad regrettable? Happy with the installment of Pinochet in Chile, funding the Contras in Nicaragua?

I reiterate what I said previously. I'm not about painting the US as evil, I would just feel more comfortable about sharing the planet with a powerful neighbour who learnt from mistakes.

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@BillRM,

I don't doubt the Midway claim, though I can't confirm. And I don't know that much about the British Navy either, but I do have a firm grasp of the history of WW2.

Only a certain kind of american would 'find it odd' that someone's knowledge or interest, is not limited to their geographic location - and that's not meant to be patronizing. It's just fact. I guess the closer you live to the center of the universe (at least as far as infotainment goes) the less likely you are to look the other way.

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@hingehead,

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Nothing in vietnam/cambodia/laos that was a tad regrettable?

Bad judgment where we ended up committing our military in the 1960s and how we committed that military but nothing of moral nature that would cause me to feel guilty.

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Happy with the installment of Pinochet in Chile, funding the Contras in Nicaragua?

Yes, more then likely, if I had been in charge I would have done the same or taken similar actions. Perhaps controlling Pinochet more or placing another puppet in power and being a little firmer in limiting how dirty the dirty war became.

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@BillRM,

Well thanks for your distressing honesty.

You're clearly not my kind of person based on empathy alone. But it takes all kinds to make a planet.

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@BillRM,

Faced with the knowledge that his mother is an axe murderer and his father a rapist and child molester, Bill reminds us that mom made good cookies and dad took him fishing.

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Debating Islam 2: But first answer skill-testing questions
By Douglas Todd
30 Aug 2010

Here's a new and refreshing idea: You're not allowed to have an opinion about the proposed mosque near the site of the 9/11 terrorist attacks unless you can prove you know something beyond cliches about Islam today.

The proposal comes from Regent College theology professor John Stackhouse, an evangelical Christian in Vancouver who, unlike many North Americans today, has not given into fear or lost his sense of logic in the New York mosque furore.
"I've now hit on the idea of setting 'Skill-Testing Questions' for those who want to sound off on the Ground Zero mosque," Stackhouse wrote me in an email after my weekend column, which argued that many people aren't fighting fairly in the anti-mosque crusade.
They're arguing as if all Muslims are terrorists, or responsible for terrorism, which is absurd. Muslims have many wrong-headed things to answer for in all sorts of countries today -- from Iraq to Indonesia, Nigeria to Britain -- as do members of all religions and no religion.
But Islam is now a religion of more than one billion people, only a fraction of which are angry terrorists. Most Muslims I know or read about in other parts of the world just want to quietly live modest, decent lives.
After coming up with three important questions about contemporary Islam, Stackhouse, who has been digging into these ideas on his own lively blog, said, "If someone can't answer these very basic questions, they don't have an opinion worth considering."
If you have even a vague sense of the answers to Stackhouse's questions, you will be reminded that the West has dirty fingers when it comes to the rise of Muslim fundamentalism/terrorism.
The questions:
1. How did the Shah of Iran come to power and retain it? Why is the
acronym SAVAK one that does not endear the United States to Iranians?
2. How does the House of Su’ud maintain power in Saudi Arabia? In
particular, why does it fund Wahhabi madrassahs at home and around the
world–when Wahhabism is a sworn enemy of all that the House of Su’ud
stands for?
3. How did the Taliban become powerful in Afghanistan and why? In
particular, where did their weapons and their legitimacy come from?
http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/thesearch/archive/2010/08/30/muslim-debate-2-you-can-t-enter-without-answering-skill-testing-questions.aspx

1 Reply

Mosque to be Built Near Ground Zero

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