0
   

Patriot Act is unconstitutional!

 
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 09:28 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;46481 wrote:
I am glad you brought up Ben Franklin as your argument (being thanksgiving and all)

It is hard to take a man seriously who in his most POWERFUL years, wanted the national bird to be the Turkey


Ben had a good appetite and thought with his belly. Which would you rather eat, turkey or eagle?

Not to mention, the Bible prohibits eating eagle.
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 09:31 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Bible says no pigs either.
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 09:38 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;46477 wrote:
What was the context of Ben's statement? Humm?


There's debate on whether or not Ben Franklin actually wrote that, and the actual phase is

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

It was written as a motto on a publication (that Franklin did publish in 1759, but denied writing) called "An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania", and is an excert of a letter from the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor of Pennsylvania in 1755, who at the time was Robert Morris.
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 09:44 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;46483 wrote:
Bible says no pigs either.


Roger that. Can pigs be the national bird?
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 10:03 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
I suppose when Pigs Fly
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 10:13 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;46494 wrote:
I suppose when Pigs Fly


You must be in a relaxed mood. Have a good relaxing day.
0 Replies
 
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 10:19 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;46357 wrote:
Following the constitution word for word is almost as redundant as believeing the bible word for word...

The Supreme Court of the united states, is granted the power to INTERPRET LAW. And their interpretations set the precedent for how the laws are to be followed. This is not a point to open up argument, its how it is... agree with their interpretations on a moral or ethical stand point if you wish or not... agreeing with it being the law of the land, you can't.

Fortunately that power is not everlasting. as an interpretation of a particular law can be overturned setting anew precedent.

AS OF NOW the law as interpreted by SCOTUS is

RIGHT TO PRIVACY... AND SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE


Article III does not provide for SCOTUS to have judicial review of what the CONSTITUTION says, that power was illegally granted by SCOTUS to itself in Marbury v. Madison.

The Articles of the Constitution prescribe a republican system of governance that has stood the test of time and hold NO AMBIGUITY WHATSOEVER. Those who find ambiguity are falsely conjuring it from concrete statements (like "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed").

The Bible is a religious text that Christians can CHOOSE to take literally, the Constitution IS THE GOVERNMENT, and without it our sitting represenatives have ZERO power.
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 10:19 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
I am very mellow today, it is going to be me and football and Hery Weinhradts Root Beer (had it shipped since they dont sell it in texas even though its bottled here) and I have 3 differnt people bring me "A PLATE" from their dinners, I am happy
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 12:14 pm
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;46498 wrote:
I am very mellow today, it is going to be me and football and Hery Weinhradts Root Beer (had it shipped since they dont sell it in texas even though its bottled here) and I have 3 differnt people bring me "A PLATE" from their dinners, I am happy


Thank God Wink
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 02:45 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;46504 wrote:
Thank God Wink



To be this relaxed I will thank god Alla jehova, or martians MAtters not to me.
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 03:07 pm
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;46497 wrote:
Article III does not provide for SCOTUS to have judicial review of what the CONSTITUTION says, that power was illegally granted by SCOTUS to itself in Marbury v. Madison.

The Articles of the Constitution prescribe a republican system of governance that has stood the test of time and hold NO AMBIGUITY WHATSOEVER. Those who find ambiguity are falsely conjuring it from concrete statements (like "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed").

The Bible is a religious text that Christians can CHOOSE to take literally, the Constitution IS THE GOVERNMENT, and without it our sitting represenatives have ZERO power.



LMAO... I think you had better Read Article 3 again, as well as Marbury Vs. Madison....


The constitution in fact (in article 3) as well as references in articles 1 and 2, give Scotus the power to determine cases... determining cases as pointed out by Alexander Hamilton involves interpreting law.


And Marbury VS Madison...



My head is spinning trying to grasp you point. It is almost as if you posted MY ammunition and aimed it at yourself.

Would you like to try again?


I tell you what Delete your post, and I will delete mine, and we will pretend that you did not just win this debate for me.
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Nov, 2007 08:32 pm
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;46513 wrote:
LMAO... I think you had better Read Article 3 again, as well as Marbury Vs. Madison....


The constitution in fact (in article 3) as well as references in articles 1 and 2, give Scotus the power to determine cases... determining cases as pointed out by Alexander Hamilton involves interpreting law.


And Marbury VS Madison...



My head is spinning trying to grasp you point. It is almost as if you posted MY ammunition and aimed it at yourself.

Would you like to try again?


I tell you what Delete your post, and I will delete mine, and we will pretend that you did not just win this debate for me.



Quote:
Section 1. The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office.


Section 2. The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.


In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.


The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed.


Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.


The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.


There's the entire text of Article III. I'll assume you believe the power of judicial review comes from the first sentence of Section 2, it doesn't. It simply states that the SCOTUS has the power to rule on cases arising under the Constitution, it never once permits it to nullify laws as unconstitutional, nor does it permit SCOTUS to interpret the Constitution for "extra" rights or powers to the government or people.

Marbury v. Madison is studied by law schools and high school civics classes throughout the country BECAUSE it was the case that established judicial review of Congressional statute (as opposed to the power being established by the Constitution). Without this fact, there is no reason to study the case, as it simply involved the withholding of judicial commissions.

But yeah, you're right, judicial review is TOTALLY mentioned in Article III, the authors just didn't know where to include it, so they threw it in somewhere towards the end.
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2007 07:06 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Tha Patriot Act is good, and should be supported fully by all Americans. I want anybody who resembles a terrorist to be investigated down to the fine hairs inside his nostrils.
Drakej
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2007 07:42 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Pino that is just asking for a terror state. Who know what a "terrorist" looks like. What about the Oklahoma City bombing was that carried out by some crazy Islamic terrorist? Because what happens when they decide that anyone who looks up United State's Military tactics up on the internet is a possible terrorist?
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2007 07:51 pm
@Drakej,
Drakej;46758 wrote:
Pino that is just asking for a terror state. Who know what a "terrorist" looks like. What about the Oklahoma City bombing was that carried out by some crazy Islamic terrorist? Because what happens when they decide that anyone who looks up United State's Military tactics up on the internet is a possible terrorist?


You've got a point. While I trust Republicans to know what a would-be terrorist looks and smells like, I darned sure don't trust the Democrats to do so. When the Democrats are in power, I'm anti-government. When Republicans are in powr, I'm pro-government. I will oppose every single thing President Clinton II attempts to do. I will pray for her downfall, every night, before going to sleep.
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2007 09:47 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;46749 wrote:
Tha Patriot Act is good, and should be supported fully by all Americans. I want anybody who resembles a terrorist to be investigated down to the fine hairs inside his nostrils.


What if removing guns from the citizen's would help stop terrorists threats, would you support it then?
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2007 08:06 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;46764 wrote:
What if removing guns from the citizen's would help stop terrorists threats, would you support it then?


Disarming citizens has never reduced the threat against them....ever. From teh mouths of hardened criminals themselves "Armed citizens are much less likely to be targeted".


"You cannot invade the mainland United States.
There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2007 07:05 pm
@92b16vx,
92b16vx;46798 wrote:
Disarming citizens has never reduced the threat against them....ever. From teh mouths of hardened criminals themselves "Armed citizens are much less likely to be targeted".


"You cannot invade the mainland United States.
There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto


It is irrelevent to the matter, the question is simple: Would you support the removing of guns from citizens IF it helped prevent terrorism?
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2007 07:11 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;46838 wrote:
It is irrelevent to the matter, the question is simple: Would you support the removing of guns from citizens IF it helped prevent terrorism?


I tihnk you asked Pino that, not me. I would have no disarming whatsoever of the American people.
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Nov, 2007 07:24 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;46838 wrote:
It is irrelevent to the matter, the question is simple: Would you support the removing of guns from citizens IF it helped prevent terrorism?


Nope. Guns allow me to protect myself against your Communist police state.:headbang:
 

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