Patriot Act is unconstitutional!

So what of the civil liberties taken away by the US in WW2? i.e. japanese citizens? The US took them way as well and we are still here?

My point was, yes some civil liberties were taken away. But after the war was over they were given back. i.e. letting the japs go. The US did not crumble from the events during the same time, that is the difference. As history tells me. It can and does happen from time to time but as we did last time. I do not think this will be forever. As you evidently do.

I have been here so much longer than you, and I STILL cant get that ***ing multi quote post to work.

As a popular vote fan, I also understand that we implemented with our popular vote the Electoral College. More population in a state = more electoral votes. The popular vote can NOt be lookin at over all, it has to be broken down state by state, in this case Bush in BOTH hsi elections won the nessesary states to recieve more electoral votes.


I would not be against the idea of doing away with the electoral college, and going to straight popular vote, granted we wont elect a president november, it will be march, but thats okay.

What I think is more realistic to extend the electoral college by district. The district lines are already mapped out, for the lesser elections, (house of representatives) and based on a mid term election time to vote in a representative, we would have our new president by January.

I understand questioning government actions, I dont understand questioning EVERY action. We put them in power as a delegation of certain responsibilities. so we wouldnt have to have a 250 million man vote every time we need the federal interest rate to go down a quarter percent.

Limiting government, and tieing their hands walk hand in hand. IF more people wanted to LIMIT the government, then less would get done than now. I truly believe our government works, and works the way it was intended. I have yet to see anything on scale worth getting ancy about or even blinking at, happen that should cause any other opinion.

Those elected official can in fact lie, AKA not support there electing constituency thats why they are not LIFE TIME posts, that is why we have elections every 2 and 4 years. Case in point. George Bush (the first one) won his campaign based off of "READ MY LIPS NO NEW TAXES" and infact created more taxes than any other president (1 or 2 term) in history. What happened? second term comes around the people spoke, and Slick willy took office. YAY for free elections.

I guess I am one of those that do not feel an injustice if I cant make a phone call without big brother listening. I would rather lose a few civil liberties and have 100 terrorist plots thwarted, than KEEP all my civil liberties, and have ONE terrorist plot succeed.

I am sorry, no right not a single one of them should ever be "suspended" nor should it be revoked or allowed with provisions. Many people have died for this country fighting for our rights and civil liberties. How can you be okay with shrugging it off and say Well they will give them back right? To me that is not standing up for your country that is bowing down because you are allowing your self to be ruled by fear.

how do you know the liberties will be given back? How many times in history are civil liberties given back without bloodshed? This tactic puts far to much faith in the government.

I believe it was Thomas jefferson who said "The government should fear it's people not the other way around"

It's easy, here's what the code from my post looks like notice the alternating quote tags:

Code:
[QOTE=rugonnacry;45977]Perhaps i did misunderstand your analogy.


Until we no longer have FREE elections, the people in power are put their by OUR vote. Dont like it? Dont vote for them the next term. And the appointed positions of power... Still have to be approved by all the people we voted for.
[/QOTE]
Our current president recieved fewer total votes than another candidate, yet still used his power and influence to skew the vote in his favor. Does that sound like free election to you?
[QOTE]
People who follow the government are sheep?[/QUOTE]
Not my words, people who follow the government without questioning it are sheep. As long as you question every decision/policy they enforce upon you before accepting it, you are not a sheep.
[QOTE] and those who dont are patriots? Oh my... so a few Radicals who arent having there views of how the government should operate are the patriots (shakes head in sadness)
[/QOTE]
It's not those who are anarchist that I'm talking about, it's those that seek to limit govt. authority and keep vital checks and balances in place. Smaller govt. is always better govt.
[QOTE]
Of course they want their own agenda perpetuated, we vote for certain people because we want them to perpetuate OUR agendas... I fail to see your point.
[/QOTE]
Do you fail to see the point that elected officials lie while campaigning without any accountability? Do you fail to see elected officials catering to special interest group lobbyists with millions of dollars to push their legislation? I'm not saying that all elected officials are like that, but to say that the majority are representing the working class is ridiculous.
[QOTE]
as far as my "wreckless statement"


If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about... if you are NOT doing anything wrong, then what are a few missing "Civil Liberties" if it catches those who are plotting devastation to us and our posterity?[/QOTE]
Because it lets terrorists win. They don't care if their plots are thwarted over and over, what they're trying to do is "terrorize" you. To change your life so that you live in constant fear of their attacks. Giving up your civil liberties means that they have succeeded and you are so afraid of them that your level of freedom is decreased.


I removed the "U" so you could see what it looks like.

BTW, my join date is 2 months before yours

All great suggestions, but i think the problems are more as follows:
There is too great a gap between citizens and congress. Federal govt. should be limited and govt. business should be relegated to the states so that the citizens can be more directly involved without corporate interference.

I'm not a trusting person, I see politicians being arrested for corruption, living in multi million dollar homes with a salary of 50k, big businesses pushing legislation through that nobody but them really wants. I think the system has major flaws and needs a complete overhaul. I see America's govt. as less a product of evolution and more a victim of entropy.

That just it, the govt doesn't do very ******* much as it is. They take a huge percentage of my paycheck and waste it on foreign profiteering ventures touting them as a "war on terror" then they make me pay them to baby sit me and call it "homeland security". Guess what, I dont want ANY of that, why should I pay for it? Why should these corporate controlled politicians have the power to make me give up more of my earnings so that they can waste it?

I think there should be more accountability for the claims politicians make while campaigning. If someone says they won't make new taxes or that they will work toward implementing a certain policy, they should be charged criminally and removed from office if they do not follow up on their promises. Too many times have they been allowed to lie to our faces and get away with it. If you turn away from your campaign platform, your assassination should be legal. That would keep them honest

I feel polar opposite to everything in that last statement. I'd rather die with my freedom intact so that my child can live with the same freedom I enjoy.

Who cares when it expires the point is they enacted it, they violated our rights as Americans. That is not okay. Just like it is not okay for a person to steal your car and leave a note saying its okay i took your stuff, I will return it in 15 years.

Which of your rights did they violate?

Can you show where in the Constitution it says you have a right to "Privacy?" Clock start now. Nov 20, 2007 5:19 MST.

I guess you've never read the fourth amendment.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Maybe? I am not a lawyer but i think that pretty much sums it up.

I'll ask again, show me where in the Constitution is says anything about a right to privacy? Clock is still runnin.

I'll ask again, show me where in the Constitution is says anything about a right to privacy? Clock is still runnin.