Patriot Act is unconstitutional!

@Drakej,

Drakej;45749 wrote:

I do not agree with the patriot act at all. We have given permission for Project Carnivore and pretty soon they will be black bagging suspected suspicious could be someone bad type people. I am not okay with someone, anyone invading my right to privacy. Lets pretend that I sell a truck for cash. Its a 2004 Toyota Tacoma, a guy pays 10 grand in cash. I take that 10k down to the bank and put it in my account. Well that is a red flag, I just deposited a large sum of money in my account. So now what happens if they flag my girlfriend, they flag my brother and a few other close friends. During there investigation they find out that I visit this website. Pretty soon they are flagging you and your friends. Giving up our rights, the things that make us who we are, the very core of this country and its whole way of life is exactly what extremists want. They sit back and laugh in there caves about how afraid we are, how we are willing to give every thing away to stay safe. But think about it like this, how doe programs like "The Patriot" act protect us? We waste money on honest Americans and there friends/family/associates when we could not pick up the Intel on something as large as 9/11? Carnivore was in place way before the patriot act. So imagine now what they are implementing now.

That's a good point, and where do you think all the money comes from to fund these govt. employees to run around spying on you? YOU DO! The govt. wastes enough money as it is, why would I pay higher taxes so that they can spy on me? How much larger do you want to make the govt. and how much of your life do you want to spend working to make money to give them so they can waste it? I can't for the life of me see how making the govt. larger is a good plan.

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That is a ridiculous analogy. If you could run 55 mph and you were in a 35mph zone should you get in trouble for speeding.

No, because the law is in reference to operating a motor vehicle. That has no correlation to anything, my analogy did.

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You cant use oranges as your argument for apples.

I was making a point that the govt. has a history of abuse of power and is not to be trusted, this was after you made the false statement that "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about". What happens when they redefine what is "wrong"? What happens when they tell you that something you enjoy and cherish is wrong? will you cower like a bitch and let them take your freedom?

Apple meet apple Smile

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However I can still *** slap your comment by answering it.

There is a strong difference between criminal activity and my turds. HOWEVER if it was the law, and it did what it was supposed to do (IE PATRIOT ACT keeping us safer) then Yes they are welcome to place cameras anywhere they like. I am not modest

That's the problem with your argument, the patriot act has no checks, no balances, it puts too much power into the hands of the few, people don't always do what they are "supposed to do". Power corrupts, and there is already a long history of corruption in place, so you want to dump gas on the fire by giving that corruption more power? I feel sorry for you if you are too blind to see it. And I feel sorry for the rest of America if they too are as blind as you.

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

Exactly, if they are spying on you collecting all of this "evidence" and they decide to bust you on something, or question you who can you go to? The courts? Nope, why? Because no one knows about it, it is between you and a group of people that are ghosts. Next thing you know your in the middle of BFE with zero rights being pumped for information you do not have.

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@Fatal Freedoms,

Al Qaeda is the threat, guys, not the US Government. Stay focused.

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@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;45796 wrote:

Al Qaeda is the threat, guys, not the US Government. Stay focused.

i'm more concerned about my civil liberties than terrorists, the government uses scare tactics to get you to agree with them! More americans have died from peanuts than terrorists!

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

Exactly, what do we have to fear more? Another 9/11 or loosing my rights? From some of the legislation coming across the wire lately I am much more concerned about my civil liberties and rights as American. I am just tired of the government trying to slip all of this under the radar, giving it some cute name that is supposed to instill hope in peoples hearts. And dont get me started on gun control bills.

1 Reply

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;45796 wrote:

Al Qaeda is the threat, guys, not the US Government. Stay focused.

Terrorist can not take away the freedom of Americans, only the American government can do that, and people like you that lap up the vomit are helping them.

1 Reply

@klyph,

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*************************************** Defending our country from terrorism is different from checking my health, My initial assessment was correct. You cannot change YOUR OWN WORDS after i point out the flaw.*************************************************************

**********************************************************If it is decided that something I love and cherish is a danger for the safety and well being of the country... then I suppose it is a law that shall be followed. ************************************************************

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Nope, you are still using oranges to defend apples****************************************************

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I feel sorry for conspiracy theorists and anarchists. They are the ones whose lives are most affected, and the most miserable. Guess what. we have had too many DIFFERENT people with too many different views, in ALL levels of the government, SO either EVERYONE IS EVIL, thus EVIL begets evil, and they are in fact representing us properly.... Or your "government is EVIL they are out to get us", conspiracy fails.*******************************************************

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

Fatal_Freedoms;45826 wrote:

i'm more concerned about my civil liberties than terrorists, the government uses scare tactics to get you to agree with them! More americans have died from peanuts than terrorists!

I can imagine why. You probably live so deeply in the Michigan woods nobody except we here at CV even know you exist.

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@92b16vx,

92b16vx;45855 wrote:

Terrorist can not take away the freedom of Americans, only the American government can do that, and people like you that lap up the vomit are helping them.

You won't be happy until America goes up in flames. I live to deny you and those like you 'happiness'.

1 Reply

@Drakej,

Drakej;45851 wrote:

Exactly, what do we have to fear more? Another 9/11 or loosing my rights? From some of the legislation coming across the wire lately I am much more concerned about my civil liberties and rights as American. I am just tired of the government trying to slip all of this under the radar, giving it some cute name that is supposed to instill hope in peoples hearts. And dont get me started on gun control bills.

Bush is good; Clinton is trash from Hell. Yes, I do fear Communist tyranny, which will soon bear down upon us when the Devilish Hag is elected to the White House. So, I guess it all hinges on who is in charge. I hate Clinton with every ounce of my emotional energy. I love to hate them.

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@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;45870 wrote:

You won't be happy until America goes up in flames. I live to deny you and those like you 'happiness'.

Like I siad, people like you help the government keep the people oppressed. Look at you Augustus would be proud, all dictators woudl be proud of you.

1 Reply

@92b16vx,

92b16vx;45883 wrote:

Like I siad, people like you help the government keep the people oppressed. Look at you Augustus would be proud, all dictators woudl be proud of you.

I only support REPUBLICAN dictators. Democrats I hate.:headbang:

1 Reply

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;45905 wrote:

I only support REPUBLICAN dictators. Democrats I hate.:headbang:

dictators are the source of this world's agony and tyranny!

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@rugonnacry,

rugonnacry;45865 wrote:

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*************************************** Defending our country from terrorism is different from checking my health, My initial assessment was correct. You cannot change YOUR OWN WORDS after i point out the flaw.*************************************************************

I never changed my words. Perhaps my analogy mislead you, as you failed to see the point I was making. I apologize.

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**********************************************************If it is decided that something I love and cherish is a danger for the safety and well being of the country... then I suppose it is a law that shall be followed. ************************************************************

But who decides what is dangerous? Because right now, legislation isn't made by citizen representatives with the peoples interests. It is made by corrupt politicians who do the bidding of lobbyists backed by major corporations. Have you taken into account what really "runs" this country? MONEY. People with money have the power, and they will forever be trying to perpetuate their power over the working class.

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*********************************************************
Nope, you are still using oranges to defend apples****************************************************

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I feel sorry for conspiracy theorists and anarchists. They are the ones whose lives are most affected, and the most miserable.

Those that question the government are the true patriots. They are the ones who live their lives fighting abuses of power and injustices. Those that follow the herd like good sheeple live blissful ignorance, but it is the subsequent generations that suffer the loss of freedom as power shifts from the common people to the elite.

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Guess what. we have had too many DIFFERENT people with too many different views, in ALL levels of the government, SO either EVERYONE IS EVIL, thus EVIL begets evil, and they are in fact representing us properly.... Or your "government is EVIL they are out to get us", conspiracy fails.*******************************************************

You speak of our government as if it is run by beings that are selfless and do not seek to perpetuate their own agenda. Guess what, it is run by humans, and yes, all humans are evil to varying degrees. Those that try to put themselves into a position of power tend to be more evil and selfish than most, but that is what we're dealing with.

rugonnacry;45633 wrote:

If you arent breaking the law you have nothing to worry about.

This is the statement that I find reckless, and dangerous to freedom and liberty.

1 Reply

@klyph,

klyph;45963 wrote:

Perhaps i did misunderstand your analogy.

Until we no longer have FREE elections, the people in power are put their by OUR vote. Dont like it? Dont vote for them the next term. And the appointed positions of power... Still have to be approved by all the people we voted for.

People who follow the government are sheep? and those who dont are patriots? Oh my... so a few Radicals who arent having there views of how the government should operate are the patriots (shakes head in sadness)

Of course they want their own agenda perpetuated, we vote for certain people because we want them to perpetuate OUR agendas... I fail to see your point.

as far as my "wreckless statement"

If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about... if you are NOT doing anything wrong, then what are a few missing "Civil Liberties" if it catches those who are plotting devastation to us and our posterity?

2 Replies

@rugonnacry,

rugonnacry;45977 wrote:

Perhaps i did misunderstand your analogy.

Until we no longer have FREE elections, the people in power are put their by OUR vote. Dont like it? Dont vote for them the next term. And the appointed positions of power... Still have to be approved by all the people we voted for.

Our current president recieved fewer total votes than another candidate, yet still used his power and influence to skew the vote in his favor. Does that sound like free election to you?

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People who follow the government are sheep?

Not my words, people who follow the government without questioning it are sheep. As long as you question every decision/policy they enforce upon you before accepting it, you are not a sheep.

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and those who dont are patriots? Oh my... so a few Radicals who arent having there views of how the government should operate are the patriots (shakes head in sadness)

It's not those who are anarchist that I'm talking about, it's those that seek to limit govt. authority and keep vital checks and balances in place. Smaller govt. is always better govt.

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Of course they want their own agenda perpetuated, we vote for certain people because we want them to perpetuate OUR agendas... I fail to see your point.

Do you fail to see the point that elected officials lie while campaigning without any accountability? Do you fail to see elected officials catering to special interest group lobbyists with millions of dollars to push their legislation? I'm not saying that all elected officials are like that, but to say that the majority are representing the working class is ridiculous.

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as far as my "wreckless statement"

If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about... if you are NOT doing anything wrong, then what are a few missing "Civil Liberties" if it catches those who are plotting devastation to us and our posterity?

Because it lets terrorists win. They don't care if their plots are thwarted over and over, what they're trying to do is "terrorize" you. To change your life so that you live in constant fear of their attacks. Giving up your civil liberties means that they have succeeded and you are so afraid of them that your level of freedom is decreased.

1 Reply

@Fatal Freedoms,

The argument "If you are not doing any thing wrong you have nothing to fear" is not a very good argument. What happens when they skew the law so much that you do not know what is right and wrong? Pretty soon you are being investigated and having your door kicked in for no reason. I am not paranoid I am a realist. These are things that can in fact happen. If you say it never will because people will not stand for such things you would be wrong. Look at the Patriot Act and other pieces of legislation. To many people are being scared into agreeing to any thing that will "keep them safe". It is our duty to review and question every thing. I am talking about the "good" things too. There are a few bills in congress right now that have titles that would make you think they are there to save police officers lives from the scary "black rifles" but if you check the figures with the FBI "black rifles" are hardly ever used.

We cannot allow our selves to be ruled by fear. If you agree with the "Assualt Rifle Ban", patriot act (carnivore) and other pieces of legislation you should really read through them and think about what they are trying to do. We as a people can be more effective in preventing acts of terrorism or crime if we all step to the plate and do our part. When I see a suspicious vehicle cruising my neighborhood I step outside and let them know that I notice them. We cannot simply lay down and say "Well they are the experts and I am just one person, what can I do." We have a duty to this country to force checks and balances. We cannot let people with power over step and over step because soon they are stepping into your house handing you a letter of websites that are okay visit. That is the country I do not want to live in and it sure as hell is not the country I want my son to grow up in. My father taught me to stand up for what I believe in, and I believe in the Constitution. I believe in the Men and Women over the past 200 years that have served this country and died for it. I will simply bow down and say well there is nothing we can do now. We would be disgracing everyone that has come before us and built this country if we did.

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@klyph,

klyph;45987 wrote:

Our current president recieved fewer total votes than another candidate, yet still used his power and influence to skew the vote in his favor. Does that sound like free election to you?

Not my words, people who follow the government without questioning it are sheep. As long as you question every decision/policy they enforce upon you before accepting it, you are not a sheep.

It's not those who are anarchist that I'm talking about, it's those that seek to limit govt. authority and keep vital checks and balances in place. Smaller govt. is always better govt.

Do you fail to see the point that elected officials lie while campaigning without any accountability? Do you fail to see elected officials catering to special interest group lobbyists with millions of dollars to push their legislation? I'm not saying that all elected officials are like that, but to say that the majority are representing the working class is ridiculous.

Because it lets terrorists win. They don't care if their plots are thwarted over and over, what they're trying to do is "terrorize" you. To change your life so that you live in constant fear of their attacks. Giving up your civil liberties means that they have succeeded and you are so afraid of them that your level of freedom is decreased.

I have been here so much longer than you, and I STILL cant get that ******* multi quote post to work.

As a popular vote fan, I also understand that we implemented with our popular vote the Electoral College. More population in a state = more electoral votes. The popular vote can NOt be lookin at over all, it has to be broken down state by state, in this case Bush in BOTH hsi elections won the nessesary states to recieve more electoral votes.

I would not be against the idea of doing away with the electoral college, and going to straight popular vote, granted we wont elect a president november, it will be march, but thats okay.

What I think is more realistic to extend the electoral college by district. The district lines are already mapped out, for the lesser elections, (house of representatives) and based on a mid term election time to vote in a representative, we would have our new president by January.

I understand questioning government actions, I dont understand questioning EVERY action. We put them in power as a delegation of certain responsibilities. so we wouldnt have to have a 250 million man vote every time we need the federal interest rate to go down a quarter percent.

Limiting government, and tieing their hands walk hand in hand. IF more people wanted to LIMIT the government, then less would get done than now. I truly believe our government works, and works the way it was intended. I have yet to see anything on scale worth getting ancy about or even blinking at, happen that should cause any other opinion.

Those elected official can in fact lie, AKA not support there electing constituency thats why they are not LIFE TIME posts, that is why we have elections every 2 and 4 years. Case in point. George Bush (the first one) won his campaign based off of "READ MY LIPS NO NEW TAXES" and infact created more taxes than any other president (1 or 2 term) in history. What happened? second term comes around the people spoke, and Slick willy took office. YAY for free elections.

I guess I am one of those that do not feel an injustice if I cant make a phone call without big brother listening. I would rather lose a few civil liberties and have 100 terrorist plots thwarted, than KEEP all my civil liberties, and have ONE terrorist plot succeed.

1 Reply

@rugonnacry,

rugonnacry;45977 wrote:

then what are a few missing "Civil Liberties" if it catches those who are plotting devastation to us and our posterity?

i can't believe you just said that!!! Our civil liberties are the FOUNDATION of this whole ******* nation...our civil liberties are the only thing that protects us from our goverment, take them away and we'll have a dictatorship, the founding fathers didn't want this to happen that why thats why they explicitly listed our liberties are did all that was in their power to stop that from happening

if you would look back in history this is the same thing that the communists and the nazi's did, they took away their civilians liberties away, and history shows what happens when that occurs!

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@Fatal Freedoms,

So what of the civil liberties taken away by the US in WW2? i.e. japanese citizens? The US took them way as well and we are still here?

1 Reply

Patriot Act is unconstitutional!

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