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THE US, UN AND IRAQ V

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 03:25 pm
No, not really, my sense of humour. Smile
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 03:26 pm
Analysis
Quote:
Next stages

A great deal now depends on how the next stages are handled.

* The resistance forces will be bombarded with propaganda about how futile their fight is. No doubt they will continue to be bombarded with weapons as well.

* The policy towards Saddam Hussein will be to emphasise that his fate is in the hands of his fellow citizens who have suffered at his hands.

The intention is that he will be put on trial. That trial will have to be fair.

* There will be a renewed impetus to ensure that the timetable for a handover to an interim Iraqi government by the end of June next year is kept to.

* There is also a diplomatic push on to get the United Nations involved again, and through the UN, those countries opposed to the war and the occupation. The British representative to the Coalition Authority, Sir Jeremy Greenstock, will be seeing the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan this week to discuss a possible new Security Council resolution in the spring.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 03:28 pm
Didn't I read recently that the UN has been a big failure in Afghanistan?
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 03:33 pm
Well, if you refuse to provide for security of humanitarian agencies, I don't see how they can be successful.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 03:51 pm
Next question: how do we know its Hussein and not one of his many doubles?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 03:52 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Without doubt, the capture of Sadddam is the single most important event in Iraq since the onset of hostilities.


In this post, Timber said a lot of things that made a lot of sense, but then I stumbled over ...

timberlandko wrote:
As to the global conflict with terrorism, it is far more difficult to ascribe any real lasting importance to Saddam's capture, beyond its symbolism of yet one more defeat for the jihadists.


Saddam a jihadist?

I thought Baathism and Jihad were pretty much water and fire.

Of course, should the Telegraph story be true, that would shed a different light on that again. But, like Timber said, track record on those kind of stories is pretty bad. It sounds unlikely that the two central, core issues of Iraqi misdeeds, on widely diverging issues - import of uranium from Niger, training of Al-Qaeda recruits for 9/11 - should have so neatly have been outlined in a single memo - you'd expect a totalitarian state to be more cautious than all that. But then, who am I, I dont know - I really don't.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 03:54 pm
Who has "refused to provide security" to UN agencies? In Iraq the UN refused to accept U.S. security, did a poor job of safeguarding their own, and then bugged out after the first trouble.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 03:56 pm
Well, when killed people are just "trouble", I don't wonder about someone's feelings, morality and ethics here.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 03:58 pm
BTW George: most agencies like the Red Cross and similar left Iraq as well, even without having "trouble".
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:01 pm
Foo the last (I hope) time......The Ba'ath regime was a SECULAR STALINIST REGEIME. They were NOT Jihadis. The inablity of certain Americans to comprehend this simple difference boggles the mind.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:05 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Who has "refused to provide security" to UN agencies? In Iraq the UN refused to accept U.S. security, did a poor job of safeguarding their own, and then bugged out after the first trouble.


That proved Kofi has been promoted beyond his capabilities IMO.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:16 pm
Kara wrote:
nimh, it is possible, in accord with your hopes, that after his trial, he could just not "be there" anymore. Gone from public view, confined with his thoughts and memories and regrets, one of those public figures that occasions the question, "Oh, is he still alive?"


Would be good, but I can't imagine a "secure confinement facility" having quite that effect while located in a still very turmoiled Iraq. A prison abroad? But that would bring up internationalising the court case, and accompanying questions of whose judicial authority, etc.

As said, the ICC and its like have the practical benefit for the countries involved that they can just safely "send away" their ex-dictators and not be bothered by them anymore, while avoiding the impunity associated with exile. But yes - why should Saddam be tried in an international court? Milosevic was, because the crimes he committed were committed against other peoples, in other states. Most of Saddam's crimes were against his own population. Well, there was Kuwait.

With the above in mind, I kinda like John Mc Cain's idea of a 'double trial' in Iraq and The Hague ... but I think thats whistling in the wind ...
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:17 pm
hobitbob, they did DNA tests on him immediately. That was in the first news reports.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:21 pm
Kara wrote:
hobitbob, they did DNA tests on him immediately. That was in the first news reports.


Must have been some kind of "quick test" since they got the result within hours.
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:24 pm
Walter, I'm sure a quick result was top priority. We have enough egg on our faces as it is....
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:26 pm
Nimh,

I don't think the U.s. government would see any advantage in a trial by any international tribunal, the ICC in particular. Indeed one of our several objections to the ICC is the illusory "send away" and forget features of that curious institution. The United States does not recognize the ICC or the legitimacy of its jurisdiction in any case.

Milosevic's trial has,so far, certainly not been an example we would wish to emulate. I agree with you that the claims by Iraqis for justice far outweigh any others.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:27 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Next question: how do we know its Hussein and not one of his many doubles?

DNA test?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:34 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Nimh,

I don't think the U.s. government would see any advantage in a trial by any international tribunal, the ICC in particular.

So, who is this whole adventure supposed to benefit? The US or Iraq? If 'we" try Hussein, do you really think the rest of the world will hesitate to see the trial as a sham?

Quote:
Indeed one of our several objections to the ICC is the illusory "send away" and forget features of that curious institution.

I ahev no idea what you are talking about. Pleas elaborate.

Quote:
The United States does not recognize the ICC or the legitimacy of its jurisdiction in any case.

The petty concerns of the US are the least improtant thing at the moment.

Quote:
Milosevic's trial has,so far, certainly not been an example we would wish to emulate.

What makes you say this? The fact that it wasnt a "one day of testimony, then firing squad" affair?

Quote:
I agree with you that the claims by Iraqis for justice far outweigh any others.

Gee George, the grinch is growing a heart.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:42 pm
here is the link to the article i was referring to : " IN IRAQ"S SUNNI HEARTLAND REBELS HAVE A NEW CAUSE " >>>>> www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1071272706076
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 04:44 pm
Good grief...fix the link, please!
0 Replies
 
 

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