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THE US, UN AND IRAQ V

 
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:12 pm
IRAQ AND NORTHERN IRELAND
and if you think there are not enogh problems with iraq to go around, you might want to have a quick look at the situation in northern ireland. sure to cheer you up ! exerpt from today's article in the TORONTO STAR :
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"We're Protestant without apology. We're fundamental in our doctrine and belief," says McCrea, a 55-year-old "born-again Christian," describing his church.

Paisley certainly made no apologies the time he interrupted a speech by Pope John Paul II, bellowing: "Antichrist! I renounce you and your cults and creed!"

Having catapulted to victory in the Nov. 26 elections, the once-marginal DUP is poised to try imposing the same self-righteous clarity on Northern Ireland's tangled politics.

That means no "socializing or fraternizing," as McCrea puts it, with the largely Catholic Sinn Fein, the political wing of the outlawed separatist Irish Republican Army (IRA)." here is the link to the article >>>
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www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1071361744593&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:18 pm
"Antichrist! I renounce you and your cults and creed!"

Gotta remember that one. Or perhaps Craven can use it for his bot.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:18 pm
i hope you will not boot me out of the thread for getting off the subject. i just can't help marvel at the pre-occupation of much of the western world with the iraq situation without seeing that there is strife and disagreement - of various degrees of course - all over this lovely planet. hbg.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:22 pm
hobitbob : sorry for the long link ! is it preferable to print the whole article ? sorry, but i don't know if there is a shortcut to the link. advice, please . thanks. hbg.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:22 pm
Hamburger, you fail to understand that the US is the west, no one else matters. You are all puppetts for us to use as we see fit. Wink
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:45 pm
hamburger wrote:
hobitbob : sorry for the long link ! is it preferable to print the whole article ? sorry, but i don't know if there is a shortcut to the link. advice, please . thanks. hbg.


Hi hamburger;

1. Click the "edit" button for your post,

2. Go to where you now have your link posted. Select the link with your mouse, then right-click on your mouse and choose "cut".

3. Click the URL button thats above your writing window (you have buttons called B, I, U, Quote, etc).

4. It asks you for the URL. Right-click on your mouse and choose "paste".

5. Now it asks you for the webpage title. Fill in what you would like to appear in your post instead of your very long link. Like: "link".

6. Click OK, and submit.

Now your post should appear without the very long link, and instead the word "link" in blue, which one can click to get to the webpage you referred.

Next time you want to post a (long) link, just copy or cut the URL ("http://www.etcetera") from the address bar and then do steps 3-5, instead of just pasting in the URL itself, and you wont have this problem again!
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:49 pm
hamburger

I'd never seen that quote by Paisley! I confess I laughed aloud reading it, though I enthusiastically and vigorously hate Paisley's guts. My father, English and Anglican by birth, despised Paisley with a passion surpassing my own.

There really seems to be a type of personality which falls easily to the 'them/us' dichotomy, and the 'them' is always 'evil' and debased and, commonly, sexually perverse. Bush, though no Paisley, I think is guilty of the same failing. And various corners of the religious right in the US which are as potentially bad as Paisley.

Romeo Dallaire, the Canadian general in charge of the UN mission in Rwanda has just written a book (Shake Hands With the Devil - The Failure of Humanity in Rwanda) about the horrors that he witnessed there - us/them when it gets to its ugliest level. I won't read it. I frankly don't have the courage.
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 05:55 pm
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 06:10 pm
Quote:
Anglo-Saxon Christians are the true descendants of the lost tribes of Israel.


Kara

As a white Anglo-Saxon mennonite turned atheist, I find myself once again without community. Sure, there's the leather/whip crowd, but that just feels like a weekend sort of thing.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 07:44 pm
Quote:
Saddam Hussein denied during the initial interrogation after his capture that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, Time magazine reported on Sunday.

Citing a U.S. intelligence official in Iraq, the report said that when asked if his government had such weapons Saddam replied: "No, of course not. The U.S. dreamed them up itself to have a reason to go to war with us."

The news magazine reported that the official, who read a transcript of the interrogation of the former Iraqi president, said the interrogator asked: "If you had no weapons of mass destruction, then why not let the U.N. inspectors into your facilities?"

Saddam's reply: "We didn't want them to go into the presidential areas and intrude on our privacy."


Report: Saddam Tells Interrogators 'No WMD'

Quote:


"We Got Him."
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 07:59 pm
Ehm - who's Ben Franklin?
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 08:00 pm
hi, nimh : thanks for your advice ! hobitbob also sent me a p.m. -so, no more 100 foot links ! enjoying some wonderful REAL DUTCH SPECULAAS for the holiday season - actually we enjoy it year 'round. hbg.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2003 09:14 pm
Quote:
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/nws/p/ap135.gif Via http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/nws/main5.gif
U.S. Takes Saddam From Iraq After Capture
8 minutes ago

By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. troops captured a haggard Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) in a cramped hole near one of his sumptuous palaces Sunday, a humiliating fate for one of history's most brutal dictators. A U.S. official later said Saddam had been moved to another country, and the Dubai-based Arab TV station Al-Arabiya said he was taken to Qatar ...
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 01:37 am
JESSICA LYNCH CAPTURES SADDAM

EX-DICTATOR DEMANDS BACK PAY FROM BAKER
By Greg Palast — Dec. 13, 2003
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This week, Alternative Tentacles issued the spoken word CD, "Weapon of Mass Instruction - Palast LIVE," available at www.GregPalast.com
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Former Iraqi strongman Saddam Hussein was taken into custody yesterday at 8:30p.m. Baghdad time. Various television executives, White House spin doctors and propaganda experts at the Pentagon are at this time wrestling with the question of whether to claim PFC Jessica Lynch seized the ex-potentate or that Saddam surrendered after close hand-to-hand combat with current Iraqi strongman Paul Bremer III.

Ex-President Hussein himself told US military interrogators that he had surfaced after hearing of the appointment of his long-time associate James Baker III to settle Iraq's debts. "Hey, my homeboy Jim owes me big time," Mr. Hussein stated. He asserted that Baker and the prior Bush regime, "owe me my back pay. After all I did for these guys you'd think they'd have the decency to pay up."

The Iraqi dictator then went on to list the "hits" he conducted on behalf of the Baker-Bush administrations, ending with the invasion of Kuwait in 1990, authorized by the former US secretary of state Baker.

Mr. Hussein cited the transcript of his meeting on July 25, 1990 in Baghdad with US Ambassador April Glaspie. When Saddam asked Glaspie if the US would object to an attack on Kuwait over the small emirate's theft of Iraqi oil, America's Ambassador told him, "We have no opinion.... Secretary [of State James] Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction ... that Kuwait is not associated with America."

Glaspie, in Congressional testimony in 1991, did not deny the authenticity of the recording of her meeting with Saddam which world diplomats took as US acquiescence to an Iraqi invasion.

While having his hair styled by US military makeover artists, Saddam listed jobs completed at the request of his allies in the Carter, Reagan and Bush administrations for which he claims back wages:

1979: Seizes power with US approval; moves allegiance from Soviets to USA in Cold War.

1980: Invades Iran, then the "Unicycle of Evil," with US encouragement and arms.

1982: Reagan regime removes Saddam's regime from official US list of state sponsors of terrorism.

1983: Saddam hosts Donald Rumsfeld in Baghdad. Agrees to "go steady" with US corporate suppliers.

1984: US Commerce Department issues license for export of aflatoxin to Iraq useable in biological weapons.

1988: Kurds in Halabja, Iraq, gassed.

1987-88: US warships destroy Iranian oil platforms in Gulf and break Iranian blockade of Iraq shipping lanes, tipping war advantage back to Saddam.

In Baghdad today, the US-installed replacement for Saddam, Paul Bremer, appeared to acknowledge his predecessor Saddam's prior work for the US State Department when he told Iraqis, "For decades, you suffered at the hands of this cruel man. For decades, Saddam Hussein divided you and threatened an attack on your neighbors."

In reaction to the Bremer speech, Mr. Hussein said, "Do you think those decades of causing suffering, division and fear come cheap?" Noting that for half of that period, the suffering, division and threats were supported by Washington, Saddam added, "So where's the thanks? You'd think I'd at least get a gold watch or something for all those years on US payroll."

In a televised address from the Oval Office, George W. Bush raised Saddam's hopes of compensation when he cited Iraq's "dark and painful history" under the US-sponsored Hussein dictatorship.

Saddam was also heartened by Mr. Bush's promise that, "The capture of Saddam Hussein does not mean the end of violence in Iraq." With new attacks by and on US and other foreign occupation forces, the former strongman stated, "It's reassuring to know my legacy of darkness and pain for Iraqis will continue under the leadership of President Bush."

While lauding the capture of Mr. Hussein, experts caution that the War on Terror is far from over, noting that Osama bin Laden, James Baker and George W. Bush remain at large.

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Greg Palast is the author of the New York Times bestseller, "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy." Subscribe to his columns for the Guardian newspapers and view his reports for BBC Television at www.GregPalast.com.
0 Replies
 
gozmo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 02:38 am
Saddam is captured and now we shall have opportunity to consider the price the people of Iraq have paid. Their human rights have been set aside not only for Saddam's purpose but the purposes of the US and its allies. We must demand an open investigation into the effect of sanctions and military attacks levied against Iraq. Our crimes in Iraq should be as closely examined as will be those of Saddam. It may sound distasteful but we have been partners with Saddam in the persecution of innocent people.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 04:15 am
Dream on sunshine
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 05:32 am
Hamburg, you might want to do a search in google on 'Sistani'.
Here is another url that may interest you or anyone else that may be so inclined.
Muslim

Once you learn to use this you will find it is google on steroids. Try the meta function.
Galaxy
0 Replies
 
gozmo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 05:33 am
Sunshine is something you would know nothing about.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 05:45 am
gozmo wrote:
Sunshine is something you would know nothing about.


Lower your guns Gozmo ... Steve is on our side ...
0 Replies
 
gozmo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 06:19 am
The ABC Online (Australia) is reporting "The current chairman of the Iraqi Governing Council, Abdel Aziz al-Hakim, says Saddam Hussein will be tried by Iraqi judges in a special court set up to deal with war crimes cases." Further excerpts from the article:

"Mr al-Hakim says the Iraqi court would "use the example of international tribunals," already in place to hear war crimes cases, such as the one in The Hague which is currently trying former Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic.

The Iraqi criminal tribunal would examine crimes committed under the 1968-2003 regime of Saddam Hussein, but likely would not begin work before a new Iraqi government takes over, sometime around July 2004."

'Commander of US forces in Iraq General Ricardo Sanchez said the matter had not yet been resolved."

I expect there will quite a tug'o'war on this one. The US will not want a wide ranging trial covering crimes from 1968 to 2003 because for much of that time it was Saddam's ally. Revelations in such a trial might severely embarrass many US officials including a certain Secretary of Defence. The Iraqis, as the victim of Saddam's crimes, have the moral ground here. I look forward to the gyrations of the spin doctors on this one. At the risk of once again being referred to as "sunshine" I will suggest that just maybe the truth will be aired.

Personally I am amazed that Saddam was captured alive.
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