Democrats now want to Ban the War on Terror

What is pseudopatriotic in wanting our country and all it stands for protected from people who want the destruction of it?

Consider these colliding variables in contemporary American society: appeasement toward Islamic aggression in the Middle East, due to war-weariness in Iraq, massive Third World invasion, and the re-ascendancy of Clintonism to the Presidency. I submit America is in for a very rough ride in the coming years. She'll face the following crises, simultaneously: a crumbling economy, international contempt, internal social unrest, government corruption and scandals, and increased, unchecked terrorist attacks. This will occur simply because of America's obsession with having a female President and the added thrill of having a Black Vice-President. It isn't worth it.

The items bolded above are all in effect, the other two will happen if we don't secure our borders and continue to fight a "war" against an ideal instead of an enemy, and when Bush decides to granted 10 million + illegal immigrants a free pass. Screw that round them up, and if they want to stay, do it legally.

Do you think what is bolded is only there for this administration or was it there for the last one too?Which ideal do you want to fight against, got one in particular? What do you propose we do with the idealist who target civilians? For sure you don't want them at Gitmo, there being tortured there?
Bush could of never acheived this without his comrads, democrats in congress.

Are you implying Bush is a democrat, and a pinko?

no but they control congress so it's a two party system again

Well First of all, the ISG report claims that there is no evidence whatsoever to support any claims the administration made regarding Saddam or Iraq having any connection to terrorist groups or Bin Laden or the 9/11 attack.

Also, I thought it was a well known fact that dictators and terrorist groups aren't exactly friendly with each other since they both are power mongers.
That is also demonstrated with Saddam's history with the Taliban - Remember Russia and the USA - the Taliban and Saddam - back when the Taliban tried to overthrow Saddam - and the US - trained and equipped the Taliban to assist in that venture?


You are right. How can anyone be sure there is not 1 terrorist anywhere? One can not. I didn't mean it so literally - but since we are obviously very literal I will be more careful when trying to make a point - the point being that Iraq is not a country which is known for terrorist activity or for supporting terrorism - a tyrant dictator usually likes to do that himself.

?

Well Saddam is known for torture and jailing and killing innocent people - but bombing his own towns and places of worship - and keeping the masses unemployed and homeless is not something I would assume one would do to the people of one's country - it's not exactly beneficial for the leader.

Well I am not the one saying it - but yes, that is what is being said and proven by many different accounts from torture cases being heard by tribunals - photographs being spread around the world's media outlets including a few of our own - from international red cross reports - to various unembedded alternative media outlets as well as foreign media outlets and our own congressional committees and members as well as our Senators from both sides of the fence have all commented on the infrastructure being destroyed and the reconstruction efforts being pretty much nil (except for that billion dollar embassy - saddam's old castle now claimed and occupied by the americans - with the number one biggest embassy ever built in the world - the billion dollar one and the only project that is right on time - on budget and actually in progress. Meanwhile the hospitals are missing, the schools are gone, the unemployment rate in Iraq is at an all time high - the famine rate has nearly doubled in infants alone since the American forces have invaded. And it sings loud and clear that every Iraqi official whether democratically elected or just a voice of the people - have all clearly stated that they want US forces out of their country pronto - which can be read in the Iraq Study Group Report - which I read all 186 pages of - and you?


I have no such thought - our military is over there doing their job - and their job is to follow orders and be the cannon fodder for our war profiteering leaders - all of them - from both sides of the fence - They are following orders nothing more or nothing less. But our Government, on the other hand has now officially implemented torture policies - which effectively release those few"bad apples" the President accussed our military of having who got caught torturing innocent iraqis - of their responsibility (somewhat) - torture is wrong - and every compassionate, pro-life Christian should realize that since Jesus was tortured - in fact tortured to death - after he got accussed of being a radical or a terrorist of sorts - don't ya think? Plus it has been stated over and over again, it doesn't work.


First of all - LIBERAL MEDIA????? The entire MAINSTREAM media outlets are owned by 3 corporations - count them 1 - 2 - 3 - That is the FCC's doing - well Bush's appointments of the chair to the FCC - it's called ownership deregulation and the thing that everybody's hands were thrown up over shortly after Bush took office - remember??? Republicans and dems alike were all up in arms over it - but obviously that was an act because they did nothing to change it. Everyone of these so called liberal corporations are munitions invested and/or war contracted or defense contractors - here is just one example. GE. The biggest War Contract (we think - since the amount is undisclosed in Iraq and quite high in Afghanastan) there is - GE is also OIL related - they also happen to own MSNBC and NBC and numerous cable stations and quite a few of the nations leading newspapers - And that is not to mention their biggest form of income would be their weapon manufacturing and sales - what in the hell do you think they are saying about the war? HIGHLY censored while trying to look authentic they are hardly anti-war - follow the money - and you will find the truth - watch what they do and not what they say - (the politicians) with the press - listen to nothing of what they say unless there are at least a few other foreign (but english speaking unless you speak another language) which say the same thing - you won't find it -

And it's not me who thinks we are causing the pain over there - it's the Iraqis who say that the American occupation has caused them immense grief, widespread suffering, death and destruction - orphaned children - mammed civillians and homeless and joblessness like they have never seen before - they have been tortured and detained for no reason and held without charges for years - only to be released after years of torture - and that is not just a few isolated incidents either that is quite a lot of stories - even from our own citizens. Additionally, the insurgency is a key in assuming that the iraqis are quite opposed to the occupation - otherwise there wouldn't be so many insurgents (which are nationals rising up against occupiers) They are the ones that think the Americans are causing them so much pain and suffering and who in the hell am I or you to say it's not so - they are the ones in pain and suffering and I think they would know who in the hell is causing it -

- I think no such thing - I don't hate Bush, I don't even know him. I am not the hater. I don't approve of torture policies - I don't believe in unecessary wars which cause untold hundreds of thousands of deaths. I don't believe in leaving others hold the bag for my own policies like the soldiers who followed orders to torture detainees. I am not the one who vacationed while an entire city in my country drowned and thousands with it. I am not the one who calls myself a pro-life compassionate christian conservative while promoting torture - wars - profitting off the blood of our fallen soldiers and innocent civillians - nor am I the leader who vacations more than any other leader but has yet to attend the funeral of one fallen soldier - who died in his war - that is a first for any president let alone a war time president. So don't assume I am the hater - I have no signs of a hater - I just have a distaste for Bush - the administration - and both sides of the fence in our congress and our senate - as far as I am concerned the politicians in this country are not on our side - they are all liars, and profiteerers as their financial records PROVE!

Let me make this CLEAR - because this is always blowing me away - ACCORDING to the US Government our hijackers on that dreadful morning were all Saudis except two - none of them were Iraqis - so why are we in Iraq? Bin Laden was in Afghanastan - and we almost caught him until we outsourced the job to the Turkish - so why are we in Iraq? The 9/11 commission clearly stated that there is no evidence WHATSOEVER which connects saddam or Iraq to terrorism, 9/11 or Bin Laden - so why are we in Iraq?




Wrong - Saddam did not violate 17 UN resolutions - that is why it is considered an illegal war and why we did not have NATO supporting the venture - The UN was not supportive of this and Saddam was cooperating with UN inspectors as well as US inspectors - That is not what the US press says but the UN site and other international but english speaking media outlets says differently - and I think we already established that he had no wmd - And lets talk about that Tenant thing. I saw the Senate testimony with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears - when tenant laughed at the accusation that the Administration accused the intellegence for the bad information when Tenant initially said that there was no evidence to suppoort any claims that Saddam had WMD - remember the forged documents that were easily revealed by the UN as forgeries - in the US 's effort to gain support for their pre-emptive and pre-mediated war (the downingstreeet memos were no conspiracy theory - they were one major reasons Blair stepped down ) Then when the 9/11 commission came around Tenant, being the good soldier he was - took the blame for the bad intelligence - only to step down during an incumbents election year and war time (big slap in the face to the administration) and then the president awarded him the nations biggest award for civillians the freedom award - why do you think that was? because he awards incompetance or because he took the wrap for him? YOU TELL ME.

The rest of your post will have to be anwswered latter - I have to get back to work. Think about it then get back to me.

The challenge that our country faced at this time, having recently been attacked, The Iraqi leader not comlying with the U.N., intelligence indicating they had weapons that could potentially be used against us - we attacked. We had no choice.

It is so easy to say now, 5 years removed from that time that it was so wrong to invade Iraq, to be a Bush hater and jump on the "the U.S. is creating more terrorists by fighting them" bandwagon.

You say, "A war on terror can not be fought with force - and shouldn't be fought with force." That is so completely wrong. All terrorists know is force. All they know is killing. That must to be met with force. If not, they will not stop killing until the people or nation they hate is "wiped off the map". - Sound familiar? Our buddy in Iran likes to say that a lot.

Listen, I understand the war in Iraq is hard. It's hard to see innocent people caught in the middle of a conflict like this. But if we back down, you will be seeing the same thing on your street someday. The Islamic fascist terrorist movement has 1 goal - Kill Americans and Israelis until there are no more to kill. If we don't fight them there, we will be fighting them here. Which would you prefer? We didn't start this fight. We were attacked on an unprecedented level on 9-11. The terrorists upped the game, and thankfully we responded. The battle ground for this war right now is in Iraq. The terrorists know this. I feel bad for the innocent Iraqi people. I do. War is hard. Hard to watch. Hard to conduct. Hard to be a part of, and hard to be caught in the middle of - but when freedom is attacked, when democracy is attempted to be torn down, and when cowards hide in jet planes filled with innocent people and slammed into buildings just to kill as many people as possible - innocent people - war is justified and necessary, and that is the ONLY way to defeat this horrible problem that we call terrorism. You may not like it. I may not like it. But it must be done. And all Americans should look past the stupid partisan hatred that is so out of control right now and unite together as one nation, and stand up to those whow want to kill us and do us harm. Do you not want to defend your freedom? Do you not want to defend your family, your friends, your loved ones from harm? Because these terrorists would not hesitate to take you or your loved ones out of this world in an instant. I don't know about you, but that fact alone gives me the strength and steadfast determination that I am willing to do whatever it takes to defend my freedom, my home, my country, my family and those that I love from the despicable terrorists that want to strike me and my family down, just because of who I am and the freedom that I stand for. If we would all just stand together, we could defeat this threat to our freedom. I wish we could. I really wish we could.[/QUOTE]

Liz - Your Quote: "Well First of all, the ISG report claims that there is no evidence whatsoever to support any claims the administration made regarding Saddam or Iraq having any connection to terrorist groups or Bin Laden or the 9/11 attack."

There was a CIA memo written in January 2003 saying, "In addition, rogue ex-regime elements could forge an alliance with existing terrorist organizations or act independently to wage guerrilla warfare against the new government or coalition forces." 'Existing Terrorist Organizations'????? Well, the CIA thought so. Put all your trust in that ISG report, okay.

You say that in Iraq the infrastructure is being destroyed, hospitals are missing, schools are gone, etc.... - Yeah, that's kind of what happens when there is a war going on. Things tend to get blown up, by both sides. Think about the suicide bombers that are detonating themselves in heavily crowded areas. Remember them? Oh, and not only are they causing infrastructure damage, they are killing innocent people. Is a human life not more important than the "infrastructure"? Ask a terrorist.

Your quote, "...every Iraqi official whether democratically elected or just a voice of the people - have all clearly stated that they want US forces out of their country pronto." Wow, that ISG report you read has really got you confused, hasn't it. Just recently, May 13th 2007, the AP came out with a report saying, "Worried Congress' support for Iraq is deteriorating rapidly, Baghdad dispatched senior officials to Capitol Hill this week to warn members one-on-one that pulling out U.S. troops would have disastrous consequences. Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh met with more than 30 House Republicans and more than a half-dozen senators." Yeah, that sounds like they want us out "pronto" - doesn't it?

Regarding your empassioned concern about torture, Let the terrorists know how you feel. They like to do it. Alot. So many people want to use the torture issue as just another thing to bash Bush and his administration over. Let me ask you, what kind of torture is the Bush administration actively enforcing? Sleep deprivation? Hot & cold treatments? Sight, sound? Or how about this, maybe you think they are taking a page out of Saddam's torture book and using chemical weapons on them. Tying their hands behind their backs and leaving them to hang on their arms for days. Breaking their arms and legs, poking out their eyes..... it gets a lot worse. Please do not try to tell me that The US government is anything like what Saddam's regime enforced on its own people daily. I think you are intelligent enough to know that Saddam Hussein's Iraq was a state of terror and torture. Aren't you glad he's gone? I am. Oh, and by the way, had we not gone to his country, he would still be alive doing these awful things to the poor, innocent Iraqi people.

Next issue - You seem to think that the term "liberal media" is erroneous, or mistaken. Are you kidding me? A report by Rich Noyes on June 30, 2004 - says, "Surveys over the past 25 years have consistently found journalists are much more liberal than rest of America. Their voting habits are disproportionately Democratic, their views on issues such as abortion and gay rights are well to the left of most Americans and they are less likely to attend church or synagogue." You say that they are hardly anti-war - that's pathetically rediculous. Welcome to the unfortunate reality.

You seem to be extremely persuaded by false reports that Saddam didn't violate UN resolutions. Yes, he did violate 17 UN resolutions from Nov 29, 1990 to Nov 8, 2002. There are countless documents showing this in great detail, even letters sent back and forth from the UN to Iraq regarding these violations and the attempts made by the UN for Iraq to cooperate. Do your research. It's easy to find.

And for saying you don't hate Pres Bush, you sure went on and on listing all of the things you don't like about him, making a very strong point for yourself, I guess??????? You clearly are not biased against him, that's for sure. And really, if you think all of our politicians in this country are liars, I really feel sorry for you. Are you a US citizen? Don't you have a little more pride for your country? It sounds to me like you have no patriotism at all. After all the time you have taken to write so many paragraphs about the war, US policy, etc..... - you have not said one positive thing about this country, it's leaders, it's military or the people living here. That says a lot. I think I have a pretty good idea of your ideals and where your allegiance lies. You can continue your replies, but to be completely honest, I don't have the desire to continue dialogue with someone who doesn't seem to have any care for this country, our soldiers or the freedom that they have fought, bled and died - and CONTINUE to fight for. Good luck and good bye.

Pentagon report debunks prewar Iraq-Al Qaeda connection | csmonitor.com

CNN.com - Report: No WMD stockpiles in Iraq - Oct 7, 2004

And of course, you gotta love the ol' 9/11 Commissions report...






Wanting us there, which they do not, and needing us there, which they do, are two COMPLETELY different things.



Now do you suppose that could be because they actually see a lot more than the average right wing conservative civilian?



Or does she care enough about this country that she isn't being a Bush apologist, and questioning apossible unjust war that the very soldiers you mention are dying in? Seeking the truth is a far cry from being unpatriotic, and a citizen of the United State would be remiss in their duties as a responsible citizen not to question our present state of affiars.

92b16vx - Thanks - I wish I would have checked before doing the work myself

Eric - Boy oh Boy are you running fast and avoiding the truth - First of all it was the 9/11 report that i said was the source (and hardly the only one I used) about no connections between saddam and terrorism - oh and you forgot to mention the part about the tyrant leader and his (or one of his arch enemies - the taliban) No mention either of the fact that George Tenant stated at first that there was no evidence to support weapons of mass destruction - and later took the wrap for it at the 9/11 commission report - which he then slapped the administration in the face for by steppind down during the incumbent president's election and during war time - when does that happen? And let's not forget the new book he published making claims that he was used by the Bush administration - and that there were no wmd - but not that you can believe someone who is incompetant as Bush claims - he was, after all, head of the intelligence who gave the bad intelligence to the President which made him go to war in Iraq - uh hum....or he was a liar taking the wrap - You decide - why would the president award an incompetant intelligence leader or a liar (has to be one of the two ) with the highest award in the land that a president can give ???

And what about those damned downing street memos? Forgot to debunk those babies didn't you? Seems to me that means that it was a planned war before 9/11 - even though saudi hijackers don't add up to iraqi invasion.

You are damned wrong about me not loving my country - I just don't feel exactly comfortable about the leaders in this country racketeering off of OUR soldiers blood - I also don't appreciate the many different stories for our reasons sending them off to die - for whose freedom? the Iraqis ? that is not what the Iraqis say? What they really do appreciate us they just are lying about it ? They really want us to stay they just don't want us to know about it. What do you think the Iraq Study Group Report WAS? It was a congressional investigation by scholars on the subject to direct the administration for a way to handle the situation which is no longer under control - never was and never will be -

My refusal to parrot the propaganda box's talking points or the so called American Media's attempt to persuade the publics opinion about things is not anti-patriotic - it's questioning authority it is very patriotic to act as a watch dog for your country and spread the truth since our so called free press is not diverse and independent anymore. I also said NOTHING about the perspectives of the journalists - what I said was the owners of the stations. The journalists can write and think what ever they want doesn't mean it wont get edited, refused, printed or go uncensored - now does it? If you ever took a journalism class before these types of propaganda - are easy to depict - one can easily hide behind a liberal facade why pushing strategic lies or ideas and one doesn't have to believe what they say or they can believe it - it's all about the editor and the editor does what he is told to do. For instance, the downing street memos were all over the freakin blogosphere before the MSM picked it up - and it was only because the MSM had to to validate their job as our nations press - and they new it. Why do you think this whole net neutrility thing is a big battle in congress? because they can't reel in the loud mouths spitting out the information they don't want heard - that is why.

You seem like your not so stupid, Erik just a little uniformed. I know how hard it is to realize that you have been living a lie - and I realize it is even harder to investigate these things for yourself - outside of your comfort zone but I suggest you do. Otherwise, you are totally foresaking your duty as a responsible patriotic american citizen - you owe it to your country to find out what your leaders are doing - you owe it to the soldiers to ensure that their lives aren't being endangered for racketeering crooks and oil men - you owe it to yourself and your kids to keep informed, and watch what they do and not what they say. It's absolutely IMPORTANT -and it's the only thing us, american citizens have to rely on is each other and ourselves - otherwise they keep us dumbed down and the subtle face of facism is hard to pick out when you refuse to think for yourself.

in your opinion.

"in your opinion."

In the opinion of History. Your gang will ruin America. In fact, you hate America. To be a perfect American liberal, you should move to Mexico, where you could hate it more passionately and effectively. People will really listen to you down there. Or....perhaps Canada, if you can't eat the food south of the border.

lol "my gang will ruin america" lol liberals hate america do they ? and you want them all to leave the country lol i dont hate america,i dont like the people running the country,and its foreign policy,what is it exactly that makes conservatives better americans ?

This is not about liberals or conservatives; republicans or democrats; the right or the left. It's about right and wrong - basic morals. It's about being part of the human race and compassion and doing the right thing.

The people of this country have got to open their eyes and see that the leaders of this country are and have always been the elite wealthy. This is why it takes money to win an election. The system is set up to secure their positions in leadership. They decide who is running and we decide who out of them will be elected (or at least we had some sort of hand in that). The elite wealthy is the smallest minority in this country -yet they are representing the masses of people? I don't think so - there is something seriously wrong with this picture.

They frame everything - liberals, conservatives, right, left, pro-life - pro-choice- The people in this country are polarized - and they keep us even more divided on top of that. Before you are a republican or a democrat, you should remember that you are an American and before that, even, part of the human race. If your loyalty to your party or your ideas blind you so much that you can't see the crimes being committed by your leaders not only on their and your own people but people of the world - then you should refrain from loyalty to any one idea or party - and stick to the general country loyalty or at least to those morals and that sense of integrity that is innate in being human.

While our press used to be more diversed and independent from the government it has in recent years become more complacent to them then ever before. And with the propaganda box in our living room - and a nation built on a history written by those in charge and taught to us in our history classes and our schools feeding our patriotism with our educators talking a story and our national holidays - like thanksgiving - celebrating basically the slaughter of the indians and the native americans - and being forced to stand and pledge our allegiance every monring before the school bell rung - to our country - and someone singing the national anthem before a big sporting event - And then there is the creation of Hollywood to glorify war and the killing machines - to even glorify the mob - in the God father - The orwellian manner in which we live our daily lives has left us living a lie - for generations - and we can't see it because no one ever told us differently. The invention of the internet (no thanks to Al Gore - despite the claims he made ) is the first thing that we have had to open the doorway to the truth - it's the first time in our history where we have easy access to other news sources (although the networks are moving internationally as we speak buying stations threwout the world). We have programs capable of translating for us - we have access to people worldwide - and others opinions of us and the real reasons why they hold those opinions - as they can speak for themselves. I suggest we all take a deep breath - what is happening here has left many or most of us in a state of chaos - a clashing of our only beliefs and the truth - a shaking and cracking in the very foundation we have built our worlds on - and it's not easy -

Everyone in this country needs to remember that we are good people. We need to keep remembering that our unity will be the one and only thing that saves us from any enemy whether outside our borders or right here at home and in our white house and capital hill. We need to remember that the world is having a hard time understanding our ignorance because unlike them - we have never really had to worry about war - or drudge threw the blood and guts of friends, loved ones or victims of such unless we served in the korean or the vietnam war. They don't understand that we have been spoon fed, ideas, beliefs and this thing called patriotism which is merely a tool we use against each other to make irrational claims against people with different beliefs - you are unpatriotic - or you hate america - This is bullshit - The american people do not hate america - some of us support those who do - but the people love their country just like any people love their country - they may not love their government but they love what they know and they know their country and the way of life here.

Just remember that your fellow countrymen - whether liberal, pro-life, pro-choice- conservative - christian - muslim - hippies - yuppies - rich - poor - they are not your enemies - even if you disagree with them - we must all avoid any further division among us - we need to stay unified as much as possible - Watch the leaders - watch what they do and not what they say - don't depend on the major media outlets for the truth anymore - investigate yourself - it's your duty - and your moral obligation. Go to Thomas.gov and read the legislation for yourself - check out the way laws are made - whose on what committees and then go to opensecrets.org to look at who is giving money and who is getting it - and check out your leaders financials - who they are invested in and what connection if any that company or corporaction has to America and the war contracts etc. Seriously folks - these are mainly empty allegations and name calling going on here - The truth is ugly - and we all need to assimilate as fast as we can and take a good, hard, look at the cold, ugly truth - before anything can be done - we must first recognize what is going on here - and you don't do that by letting the news or the paper tell you what is what - those days are long gone if they ever existed. The situation in this country is critical - we need to pay attention - not call each other names but study - do the research - make good choices and share information - remember to keep unified as much as possible -

The simplicity of mind exhibited by the Fox and CNN fans here amazes me. Everything that has happened since 9/11 (the new Pearl Harbor) is written in the Project for New American Century (PNAC), with 3 fundamental goals:

1. To deal with the growing energy scarcity (Afghan war),

2. To deal with the threat of euro (Iraq war and growing concerns over Iran), and

3. A "Third World" virtual neo-colonialism.

However, the PNAC has run into some major problems that it's authors did not foresee when they were busy writing it:

1. Revival of Russia,

2. Russia-China-Iran axis,

3. Iraq and Afghan wars in jeoperdy due primarily to Iran,

4. Continued spread of euro - now 25% of global currency reserves are in euro, and

5. Latin and south American barter-trading union in the works, led by Venezuela.

A multi-page essay can be written on each of the above points, but the hope is that this will prompt some of you to do your own research, and this link may be a great place to start: Dollar Imperialism

ALL STRUGGLE IN THE WORLD IS FUNDAMENTALLY BETWEEN THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOTS, AND I CAN'T CARE LESS WHETHER THE HAVE NOTS GO BY TAMIL TIGERS, BLACK PANTHERS, NEPALESE MAOISTS OR ISLAMISTS.

Ah yes...Sam, Those PNAC boys have been working long and hard while we have been sleeping but they have, as you pointed out, run into a few different problem in their little plan, now have they? And you are right it is about the haves and the have nots but not all haves think like the haves we refer to...Some people have plenty of money but they know what to do with it and how to earn it without taking from others.

While the PNAC is a problem and a major one - despite their problems, we have the Israel lobby and in particular, AIPAC, with a huge influence on our foreign policy. The PNAC boys are all prepared for the American economic crash - they are buying land overseas - and moving over to that little country right next to Saudia Arabia on the coast with lots of oil and it's own hollywood plans - gulf courses - American education institutions and the like. All their corporations are packing it in too - to take their business overseas. They totally are aware of what this country is about to see - you think the great depression was bad...ha! That will look like a day in the park but these Americans - our fellow countrymen are blinded by the propaganda. Blinded by the leaders who have carefully and skillfully choreographed this plan and don't even have to do so much as hide it from them - because Americans wont believe the truth at this point - or at least that is the way it seems - not that I blame them - we all know what it was like growing up in this "great" "moral" doo gooder nation - with all it's patriotism and greatness and kindness and the so called super power - I got news for you people - they are sucking us bloddy dry and they are high tailin it out of here - before the disaster strikes - remember new orleans and every man for himself - take that nationwide - too many people on this earth and in this country to survive on the land - too many corporations dumped their pollution in our lakes, oceans and all over our lands - to return to the little house on the praire days - those days are long gone - Lawyers, guns and money - is what our lawyers focus on - not us.

"what is it exactly that makes conservatives better americans ?"

Liberals aren't nationalists. They're internationalists. They want all countries dismembered and melded into one gigantic, global entity, without any sort of human distinctions, other than those insisted upon by Mother Nature herself. Internationalists are socialists. Some are die-hard communists. That's why liberals are bad Americans. As I said earlier, they hate America. They hate any and all nations.

Pinochet that is an oversimplified statement...Ou very form of government provides for a way for local governement to share power with the national government...Most so called liberals...and I say so called because many are actually fairly conservative,,,are actually people who believe you can love th US and its ideals and still believe in being part of an international community...no one is naive enough to trust that community or believe it will look after our interest if we do not
but we still have to live in it and sometimes we dont get our way

that made about as much sense as a george bush sentence,infact do you write some of his speeches,total nonsense :thumbdown:

Admit I'm right, Leftie. Admit it. Stop evading my allegations and answer up. Do you even want America to exist? Just answer the question. Tell the truth. Isn't it true you want all national borders everywhere to disappear?