Words and Deeds

well you would understand me if you tried to look at it from my point of view, as i usually look at it from your point of view to understand you.

man i can not help but admire your (sticking) to your ideal's , may be they are wrong in my views, but a man who so strongly believes , is a man i admire any way, but iam not going to spare you,

why will you do that? , Religious beliefes? interests? i dare you mention those interests, because they dont exist , you are like a herd driven to clear a landmine field so the one driving you can safely pass behind you to rule the world after you, sorry but this is my opinion of the US-Israel relationship

the US is the herd of sheep , Israel is the one driving those sheeps.

I was wondering when you were going to mimic the Middle Eastern autocrats, radical mullah's and imam's "party line" that the Jews are responsible for all the Muslim/Arab worlds woes. . .Brother, your hypocrisy knows no limits!

Tibet is gobbled up by China. Much of Greek Cyprus is swallowed up by Turkish forces. Germany is 10% smaller today than in 1945. Yet only in the Middle East is there even a term "occupied land" -- one that derived from the military defeat of an aggressive power mind you.

Israel, the biblical home of the Jews, and subsequently claimed for centuries by Persians, Greeks, Macedonians, Romans, Byzantines, Franks, Ottomans, and English is "occupied by crusader infidels" -- as if the entire world is to accept that world history began only in the seventh century A.D. and ended with Saladin in the 11th.

Over a half-million Jews were forcibly cleansed from Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo, and other Arab cities after the 1967 war, but only on the West Bank are there still refugees who lost their homes.

But all this history says nothing of what happened just 2 years ago!

Before the eyes of the whole world, Israel left Gaza. Every Jew, every soldier, every military installation, every remnant of Israeli occupation was uprooted and taken away.

How do the Palestinians respond? What have they done with Gaza, the first Palestinian territory in history to be independent, something neither the Ottomans nor the British nor the Egyptians nor the Jordanians, all of whom ruled Palestinians before the Israelis, ever permitted? Do they begin building the state they say they want, constructing schools, roads, hospitals and other assorted infrastructure? Off course not! On the very day of Israel's final pullout, the Palestinians began firing rockets out of Gaza into Israeli cities!

Before the withdrawal, attacks could have been rationalized with the usual Palestinian mantra of occupation, settlements and so on. But what can one say after the withdrawal? The "jig is up" brother, this war is not about settlements or occupation, but about Israel's "original sin." The crushing "smackdown" it put on 5 Arab nations in the 6 day war. Muslim/Arab pride can never let that down. . .Thats why 60 years later Iran's Amadinajad openly boast and works fevorishly on getting the weapon to do in one afternoon what Hitler couldn't do in 6 years -- which is why I share pino's sentiments about Israel and I ain't even Jewish!

If the Palestinians were to disavow Hamas open charter to destroy Israel and forget about a disputed 5% of land on the West Bank for 10 years, use oil money from their friends, reform and open the economy and insist on the rule of law, they could craft a humane society that could very easily come to an agreement with Israel. But then, that would require growing up, rejecting easy handouts to militias, renouncing the mystique of martyrdom and terror, questioning patriarchy, gender apartheid, fundamentalism, and autocracy -- and quite frankly, being more like Israel than like Syria or Iran. And apparently that is just too much. So in my estimation, the Palestinians can!

...iam discussing (as if its not obvious enough) the stupidity of the US (from my point of view) in supporting Israel, and the myth of Israel serving American interests in the region, i was asking him to name these interests, where did u get such an idea?...

Wars over reliogion are retarded. Fighting over some BS that can not be proven causes the whole world pain and misery, for nothing. Stupid fanatics.

This isn't a war of religion. It's a clash of civilizations, both of which are founded in large measure on religion. Even Western atheists unconsciously subscribe to Judeo-Christian ethics and morals. They've known nothing else, growing up in the West. They think they're independent of them, but they're not. Their value-system has been sculpted by Judeo-Christian thought, almost completely. They have a stake in this war, too, like it or not, recognized or not.:headbang:

Stop deceiving youself.

Stop fighting your own country. No offense, but you're on the wrong side. Think about it: did you join the Army to fight for religion? When you were in Iraq, did you consider yourself to be fighting for religion? Why not, if what you're saying is true?:headbang:

Wars over reliogion are retarded. Fighting over some BS that can not be proven causes the whole world pain and misery, for nothing. Stupid fanatics.

Roger that.

However, wars to protect your freedom and the lives and freedom of those you love are not retarded.

Agreed, as long as it is for freedom for everyone, and not just those that believe the same. We are dividing our country between the "hard" left, and the neocons, and the people stuck in the middle. Everyones pointing fingers, blaming everyone but themselves. Such polarization in the name of this god or that god, does the country NO good.

My country is not a church. You need to get on AMERICAs side, and not wallow in your religion.

Agreed, as long as it is for freedom for everyone, and not just those that believe the same.

We are dividing our country between the "hard" left, and the neocons, and the people stuck in the middle. Everyones pointing fingers, blaming everyone but themselves. Such polarization in the name of this god or that god, does the country NO good.

If you wouldn't mind, who is "everyone?" Sorry but you statement is vague at best. Freedom as in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia perhaps? Or freedom for everyone on a domestic level?



IMO, there shouldn't be blame or finger pointing but rather constructive debate as to the best course of action where our foreign policy is concerned. . .And futhermore, I agree, leave God out of it.

That's impossible. You guys are ruling out the most important variable -- culture, which is heavily, heavily influenced by religion. There's no way to ever rule out religion.:no:

If you wouldn't mind, who is "everyone?" Sorry but you statement is vague at best. Freedom as in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia perhaps? Or freedom for everyone on a domestic level?

I don't really care if Saudi or Pakistan have freedom, or live under tyranical despots, I care about Americans first and foremost. If they can make a good life for themselves than that's great, but it's not worth giving up our freedoms for theirs.

The Quraan is wrong and got it backwards. I guess that's what happens when an illiterate writes a book without Divine assistance and a political agenda in mind. Thoughts, ideas, and suggestions.

The Jews wandered 40 years because the men who were sent to recon the philistine lands came back and said the inhabitants looked like giants (Nephilim) and that their own people would look like grasshoppers in the eyes of the giants. This and other issues like building the golden chalf and constaint complaints about the lack of MTV and cable were indicative of a lack of faith and disobedience on the part of the Children of Israel. So God told that entire generation they would not see the promised land. A generation is 40 years. The only exceptions to this were the two who went on the recon and gave a different report. These were Joshua son of Nun and Caleb son of Jephunneh. These were spared God's judgement because they gave an accurate report of their recon.

God took the land from the Jews temporarily. He promised to return it to their remnant. He did not promise it to anyone else. He kept the people who lived in the area from posessing it because He promised to return it to the Jews. He did that in 1948. When that happened, those arab nations who claimed the land tried to take it and failed. Why???

This happened more than once. Why did it fail each time??? The arabs had assistance from their soviet sponsors and still failed miserably to possess the land of Israel. In fact, the arab nations who attacked lost land they previously had posession of. Why???

That's impossible. You guys are ruling out the most important variable -- culture, which is heavily, heavily influenced by religion. There's no way to ever rule out religion.:no: