Words and Deeds

"lets crucify George Bush and his neoconservative foreign policy which tried to bring freedom and democracy to 50 million Arabs" is this what you really think ! are the US going to bring democracy to the people of SAUDI ARABIA ? i dont think so some how,i wonder why ?

Maybe it has something to do with Saudi Arabia not firing surface to air missiles on U.S. jets. Maybe it has something to do with Saudi Arabia not attacking 4 of it's neighbors. Maybe it has something to do with Saudi Arabia not using WMD on it's own citizens. Maybe it has. . .:bangin: nevermind, you get my point.

so its not really about bringing democracy to the arabs in the middle-east then is it ? just when it suits the US

They can't handle democracy. Their culture is innately low, thanks in large measure to their inhuman religion. It's only their oil we want, and Israel's security.

They hate us because that is the only thing they have ever been taught to do. There's no ryhme or reason to it!

But I notice you dodged mine: Taking into consideration our actions in the past quarter century, why should the muslim arabs in the Middle East hate us?

Cute. So it's George Bush's fault the Iraqi's can't resolve their differences with dialog and debate rather then with bombs and murder?

It's the GOP's fault that radical islamist use jihad married with nihilism to further their political aims?

You come off as just another "moderate" looking to pass the blame for the obvious widespread of political oppression, religious intolerance, and social ruin in the Arab-Islamic world!

I do watch Al jazeera! And with all due respect, all I see are regimes with no legitimacy sponsoring radical clerics and imams who do nothing but whip up the "arab street" to deflect their own self induced miseries on the "infidel" U.S. and the "apes and pigs" that are spawned in Israel!

So it's George Bush's fault the Iraqi's can't resolve their differences with dialog and debate rather then with bombs and murder?

It's the GOP's fault that radical islamist use jihad married with nihilism to further their political aims?

You come off as just another "moderate" looking to pass the blame for the obvious widespread of political oppression, religious intolerance, and social ruin in the Arab-Islamic world!

I do watch Al jazeera! And with all due respect, all I see are regimes with no legitimacy sponsoring radical clerics and imams who do nothing but whip up the "arab street" to deflect their own self induced miseries on the "infidel" U.S. and the "apes and pigs" that are spawned in Israel

its GWB's fault the country fell into chaos, its his fault that the government that kept the radicals at bay fell down (although Saddams government left alot to be desired) , people in Iraq were better before the invasion, just check the statistics man, all u need now (in Iraq) to get rid of compition is the price of a bullet nothing more.

the marriage u r talking about was fruitless in the days of Saddam, it was (freed) by GWB.

You come off as just another "moderate" looking to pass the blame for the obvious widespread of political oppression, religious intolerance, and social ruin in the Arab-Islamic world!

you are entitled to have your opinion ofcourse , does not mean its true though.

I do watch Al jazeera! And with all due respect, all I see are regimes with no legitimacy sponsoring radical clerics and imams who do nothing but whip up the "arab street" to deflect their own self induced miseries on the "infidel" U.S. and the "apes and pigs" that are spawned in Israel!

good keep watching! regimes that were installed by the US (and now they come to give us the gift of democracy ! what a mockery) sponsoring radicals (you will have to prove this one)

I thought you were a moderate??? So I understand you correctly, there isn't widespread political oppression, religious intolerance, and social ruin in the Arab-Islamic world? As we say here in the west "the jig is up." Come on brother, you know and I know, the first step to fixing a problem is acknowledging that a problem exist in the first place. There's no shame in that.





You know what, your right. America's actions in the Middle East have been bad. I admit it. Six decades of U.S. support for Arab despots that began with F.D.R.'s deal with the House of Saud and reached its apogee with the 1991 betrayal of the anti-Saddam uprising that Bush Sr. had encouraged in Iraq. And in between installing the Shaw and imposing cruel sanctions against Iraqis, and all the rest of it. See there's no shame in admitting that a problem exist.

But today the islamic/arab world see's a different Bush with a radically different foreign policy. Now that the Cold War is over, we are in a position to help you guys reform and join the rest of the modern world. But as long as nihilist/terrorist/islamist (take your pick) keep killing innocent civilians and marines, and keep blowing up vital infrastructure - well I don't have to tell you. You got eyes and ears, you can read the boards. You can see that my government is divided on continuing it's support for the democracy experiment or simply writing the islamic/arab world off for another 6 decades.

And a word of warning as well. Should there be another 9/11 or worse, and should a republican other then Ron Paul get elected to the Oval. . .well you can brown bag restraint, appeasement, winning hearts and minds, war beggetting war, and all the rest of it. . .The American people will cry out as one and demand a new American foreign policy centered on: MORE RUBBLE LESS TROUBLE. . .The policy of kick ass now and ask questions later. . .No more "polite wars" that saw blood and trillions in treasure spent trying to bring freedom and democracy on the heels of "Shock and Awe Lite" but rather raining death and destruction unseen in human history since the 1940's. If thats what it took to bring Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan to their knees and put them permanently out of business, I venture thats what the "realist" republican presidental hopefuls will think it will take to bring the masses of indoctrined Islamist to their knees and put them permanently out of business.

And maybe after enough blood has been spilt and enough infrastructure desimated, and we see a white flag, then, and only then, can get on with a "Marshall Plan" that helps the survivors rebuild and get on with their lives without autocracy or radical Islam. . .Time will tell

As to proof of the governments with no legitimacy sponsoring radical clerics and imams, just peep just about any video at All Clips
_________________

Millions of Arabs watched on television as Iraqis exercised their political rights, and were moved to ask the obvious question: why are Iraqis the only Arabs voting in free elections - and moreover, under American protection - something the British Empire, Ottoman Empire, and god only knows who else before them ever permitted

And then came the "tit for tat" nihilistic car bombs, hostage taking/killing, suicide bombers, IED's ect, ect. - that douced the spark that should've ignited a revolution of freedom in the arab/islamic world

But here you are claiming that all the bombs and murder that followed was "fruitless in the days of Saddam" "It was set free by GWB"

With all due respect sir, your rebuttal reads like: "At least under Hitler the trains ran on time

The American people have given the Iraqi's a republic but they do not appear able to keep it. This is not George Bush's fault. This is not our military's fault. If you need to point your finger at whose to blame, look no further then Al Qaida and Iraqs political and social culture. . . raped and ruined by 30 years of Saddam's totalitarianism

I thought you were a moderate??? So I understand you correctly, there isn't widespread political oppression, religious intolerance, and social ruin in the Arab-Islamic world? As we say here in the west "the jig is up." Come on brother, you know and I know, the first step to fixing a problem is acknowledging that a problem exist in the first place. There's no shame in that.

You know what, your right. America's actions in the Middle East have been bad. I admit it. Six decades of U.S. support for Arab despots that began with F.D.R.'s deal with the House of Saud and reached its apogee with the 1991 betrayal of the anti-Saddam uprising that Bush Sr. had encouraged in Iraq. And in between installing the Shaw and imposing cruel sanctions against Iraqis, and all the rest of it. See there's no shame in admitting that a problem exist

Now that the Cold War is over, we are in a position to help you guys reform and join the rest of the modern world

You can see that my government is divided on continuing it's support for the democracy experiment or simply writing the islamic/arab world off for another 6 decades

And a word of warning as well. Should there be another 9/11 or worse, and should a republican other then Ron Paul get elected to the Oval. . .well you can brown bag restraint, appeasement, winning hearts and minds, war beggetting war, and all the rest of it. . .The American people will cry out as one and demand a new American foreign policy centered on: MORE RUBBLE LESS TROUBLE. . .The policy of kick ass now and ask questions later. . .No more "polite wars" that saw blood and trillions in treasure spent trying to bring freedom and democracy on the heels of "Shock and Awe Lite" but rather raining death and destruction unseen in human history since the 1940's. If thats what it took to bring Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan to their knees and put them permanently out of business, I venture thats what the "realist" republican presidental hopefuls will think it will take to bring the masses of indoctrined Islamist to their knees and put them permanently out of business.

And maybe after enough blood has been spilt and enough infrastructure desimated, and we see a white flag, then, and only then, can get on with a "Marshall Plan" that helps the survivors rebuild and get on with their lives without autocracy or radical Islam. . .Time will tell

first i would like to say that am impressed , really u do do your home work

Right after the elections, Lebanese Druze leader Walid Jumblatt (hardly a noted friend of the Bush Doctrine by the way) said in an interview with David Ignatius of the Washington Post in late Feb 2005:

"It’s strange for me to say it, but this process of change has started because of the American invasion of Iraq. I was cynical about Iraq. But when I saw the Iraqi people voting three weeks ago, 12 million of them, it was the start of a new Arab world. The Syrian people, the Egyptian people, all say that something is changing. Our Berlin Wall has fallen. We can see it."

1- what process of change is he referring to? to democracy? he is dreaming.
2- not all Iraqi factions voted , so the result isnot 100% the wish of the Iraqi nation.
3- the elections were under US protection (as u said) sorry i dont trust ur interest to be in 100% free elections , i can not say u rigged the elections to ur favor, but i will not trust elections made under occupation by a world power that has its own interests.
4- the syrian people? egyptian people, did he actually talk to them? i will let u know that i too believe that there r changes happening , but not because of what the US did.

Millions of Arabs watched on television as Iraqis exercised their political rights, and were moved to ask the obvious question: why are Iraqis the only Arabs voting in free elections - and moreover, under American protection - something the British Empire, Ottoman Empire, and god only knows who else before them ever permitted.

u assume that those arabs asking themselves about elections actually understand the importance of democracy in governments, well they dont feel the neccecity for it, because all gulf countries ( neighbours of Ireq) are living extremely well what could democracy actually bring them that they dont have? u must first show them whats the importance of democracy, then they will want it, if having elections made a difference, my country Sudan is the country with most prolonged democratic governments in the arab world(1956-1958, 1964-1969, 1985-1989), it made no difference to them.

as i said : elections under US protection=no trust for results

what i disagree on is ur tendency to fault Islam for the short comings of the arab world , its not that, its the *** governments and bastards running them, Islam isnot the problem, its the solution, when we bring down all these double crossing american dolls controling our lives and really put Islam to work in every way of our life (not just when it suits our animalistic desires) the whole world will know what we are capable of.

looooolz, more rubble less trouble can work both ways if u know what i mean raining death and destruction that is unseen in human history will guarantee u (or ur country) unseen and un heard of attacks and suicide attacks inside the united states that u will never, i repeat never be able to stop or atleast cope with, my friend iam not responsible for those who commited 911 i didnot support them , and if the US touches one inch of my holyland because some lunatic decided he wanted another 911 and u cant stop him and so u decide to retaliate to the nearest Islamic nation, then my friend u have got one billion suicide bombers on your hands (starting with me actually) , am not scared to die if the US bombs saudi arabia because they got bombed, unless it was by saudi's army u better stay off that area.

by the way in this kind of scenario u will never see a white flag from us(i will shoot the b*****d who tries to do it.) and yes time will tell.

They can't handle democracy. Their culture is innately low, thanks in large measure to their inhuman religion. It's only their oil we want, and Israel's security.

so kill all muslims and take their oil ?

so kill all muslims and take their oil ?

Scooby do you think first before you post, or do you prefer to just throw out crude "off the cuff" 1 liners?

check out other posts ! this was in reply to pino !

I wouldn't call it homework. . .I just happen to take a special interest in history, politics, and especially American foreign policy

I don't know how much you know about American history, but during our Civil War, (North vs. South) the entire south didn't participate in the election process. Elections were still held, and a president was elected. Now nobody here in United States views the election of Abraham Lincoln false or invalid. Iraq's Sunni, fresh from 30 years of unimpeded looting and killing, were quite prepared to boycott the elections and ignite a civil war in pursuit of the power and privileges they had lost. But like our Confederate South, the Sunni boycotted the elections at their own peril

The elections were free and fair. Americans didn't decide whose names would be on the ballots, Iraqi's did. Americans didn't write Iraq's constitution, Iraqi's wrote it. Iraq is no American "puppet" government! They do what they want when they want - As seen with the execution of Saddam to their taking a month long vacation in the middle of a "life and death" insurgency

As to our interest in Iraq, he has repeated it soooo much he sounds like a broken record: "The United States and Great Britain share a mission in the world beyond the balance of power or the simple pursuit of interest. We seek the advance of freedom and the peace that freedom brings." ~ George W. Bush

Are you serious? Do you think that Syria would have gotten out of Lebanon and given Lebanon a real chance for democracy had we not removed Saddam from power? Do you think Egypt would've held an election had it not been for our actions in Iraq? Yea it might have been rigged, but as an Arab columnist said: "There's no going back now." Open demonstrations against womens sufferage in Kuwait. Bashar Assad's declared intent to legalize political parties in Syria, purge the ruling Baath party, sponsor free municipal elections, and move toward a market economy. (Not that Assad is likely to do any of this, but the fact that he must pretend to be doing it shows the reach of the Bush doctrine) All these examples are small but significant steps toward democratization in the Gulf that, quite frankly, have emerged on the political stage in a way that was unimaginable before the American invasion of Iraq. All this says nothing of changing Pakistans H.Q. Kahn's "nuclear K-mart" and putting him out of business and Libya's abandonment of it's nuclear weapon ambitions (the very week Saddam was pulled out of his spider hole) I'm sorry brother, but I don't believe Arab "people power" brought about these changes, but rather, American power

I'm sure your women just love the idea of gender apartheid, honor killings and female circumcision

This way they will be able to drive a car (forbidden in Saudi Arabia) with the air conditioning on to pick up stuff from the store and not have to walk in the heat

Dude I could go on and on and on with embarrassing examples of the one I just listed above but will spare you that embarrassment. The bottom line is you are not living "extreamly well" but rather, compared with the civilized, democratic nations, it could be said and argued very well that you are still living in "The Dark Ages"

And another word of warning. Your only source of income is oil. You don't build, manufacture, and export anything except maybe persian rugs and egyptian cotton. Your entire industrial base is imported. Cars, Plazma TV's, Medicine, Airplanes, Military infrastructure, ect, ect is all imported. Mark my words, the day is gonna come when oil is obsolete or "unfashionable." In a totally free society (like ours) where the free exchange of goods and ideas are commonplace, someone, someday, will come up with a better mousetrap. God help you and your people the day that happens cause you will have awoke to a world that has passed you by. You won't have your "oil money" to purchase a DVD let alone replacement parts on that fighter jet we sold you 10 years ago.

What American dolls are you referring to?

But alas, there are some bad things in the Koran. As a moderate, I know, you know what they are and won't bother mentioning them here

The Christian Bible has gone through some "redrafts" (ex. King James bible, old testament, new testament ect. ect) My suggestion: Maybe it's time to redraft the Koran. Omit some of Mohammads "spreading islam by the sword" and "infidel" verses. . .it's a start!

with that said, I'll take my B-1 steath bomber, F-22 stealth raptor fighter jet, Abrams tank, Apache helicopter, and fully trained Marine against your suicide belts anyday

And because of my love for the United States and our overwhelming military power I can say this and it has everything to do with our culture

A literate middle class is needed to produce mechanics who can service and modify it

Freedom of scholarship is required if designers are going to update it, and an open society is necessary if the plane's sophisticated controls are going to be operated by competent, motivated, and individualistic pilots. This is our edge. This is why no one, and I mean NO ONE, will ever wield the global miltary power we enjoy today. Hoo Ra!

Also I couldn't help but notice you didn't mention the videos on the website I used to PROVE how the illegitimate governments of the muslim/arab world sponsor radical clerics and imams to whip up the "arab street" to deflect their own self-induced miseries on the "infidel" United States and the "apes and pigs" that are spawned in Israel. . .I gather from your silence I proved my point?

We should make no compromises to Islam -- none whatsoever. Nothing will ever change its mandate to destroy Christian Civilization and Israel. Nothing.