Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 02:31 pm
@sam2007,
sam2007;18045 wrote:
There may be some progress in the Iraq and Afghan wars after the US-Iranian talks yesterday, first in 28 years. If you've ever dealt with the US Deptartment of State employees, you too will find it hard to believe that they would lower themselves to diplomacy or negotiations, especially with "Third World" leaders.


What are you smoking? Islam allows lying and deception including treaties with infidels to gain time and advantage. Look at Hamas and Hez Bola and their track record with Israel. Do you think the country that is sponsoring them would treat us differently than their surrogates treat Israel?

Get real.
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 02:36 pm
@lizwitch,
lizwitch;18043 wrote:
No **** sherlock - that is what I am saying - I am trying to tell americans all about how there representative and I am talking democrats and republicans alike are liars - and crooks and they don't care about our military but I wound up on a site with a bunch of military people arguing with me - how was I to know - i thought you guys weren't aloud to blog and stuff - you might give away national secrets or tell the truth on the racketeering team...you might save your own lives and a few more innocent lives if too many people find out the ***ed truth but it is hard to take responsibility when people like you guys work against the truth - how can i share the truth when no lazy ass americans will go read the bills for themselves - did any one of you read that appropriations bill or any of them? all of it? I bet you didn't - well I did - I read legislation all the time - i go a few times a week and reveiw bills and committee reports and I am telling you these leaders are not on our side - that means, yours, mine, the american people's or the iraqis it's all a farce - a lie - a two party facisict state which deludes the american people into thinking they actually have a freakin voice - The military belongs to the people not the government - but you wouldn't know that with the way they treat you guys.


This isn't a blog. You thought military personnel were muzzled? Hah.

Yeah, you are right about lazy Americans. They just won't read. Like The Bible, they just refuse to read It.

So start a new party. Please don't make it based on communism. There is already an American Communist Party.
0 Replies
 
sam2007
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 02:38 pm
@markx15,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There may be some progress in the Iraq and Afghan wars after the US-Iranian talks yesterday, first in 28 years. If you've ever dealt with the US Deptartment of State employees, you too will find it hard to believe that they would lower themselves to diplomacy or negotiations, especially with "Third World" leaders, whom they refer to as "monkeys."

The real question is at what price will the Iranians be willing to give up all of the following:

1. Stop meddling in Iraq and Afghanistan, risk the US stabilize the 2 countries and then attack Iran,

2. Stop it's nuclear objectives, and

3. Stop it's oil exchange (which began in March 2006) which allows for the export of energy in euros.

If I'm asked to guess which is the most dangerous for the US, I will have to pick # 3, which far exceeds Saddam's cardinal sin of converting Iraq's currency reserves to euros in 1999 and asking euros for oil beginning 2000.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 02:47 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;17998 wrote:
That is why sympathy for terrorists is such a self-deluded concept. These people (the terrorists) don't care how many innocents are in the line of fire.

In their eyes, the more the better because they can gain from the death of innocents. They gain by the initial physical protection provided by the innocent; they gain by the death of the innocent when the innocent is a collateral casualty because the local populace sees the conflict and the person who is resisting the terrorist as the agressor, they gain from the international attention gained in attention to their cause and in the propaganda against the people who resist; they gain in the chaos created when relatives and friends of those killed follow their emotions and add to the chaos.

Their mode of operation is to hide behind innocents in the hope that people who care about life will hesitate or decide not to shoot because of the possibility the innocent will be killed. Is this thought process good or evil.

Our forces are not under orders to fire at anything that moves. That would be an illegal order.

If you are as I believe, a child under the age of 20; then you need to get some books and learn about warfare, the laws of war, and read the United States' Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Or go to:International Law - Council on Foreign Relations

Or: Uniform Code of Military Justice - UCMJ

Or:http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/231101p.pdf

Or: Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field, 75 U.N.T.S. 31, entered into force Oct. 21, 1950.

Or: International Humanitarian Law - First 1949 Geneva Convention

Or: UN Convention on the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces (I)

Or: Geneva Conventions - Wex

You will understand then that what you suggest is not appropriate and would not be carried out by our soldiers.

Now, if you break down the command structure of a platoon or company and have an isolated unit they may obtain a common, and wrong, mode of operation similar to their enemy. This situation is termed a breakdown of military order and discipline. This is not a situation any commander wants.

Rules of Engagement (ROE) are almost always in favor of protecting innocents in the line of fire. Military necessity is only one factor our troops must use to determine what they do for an operation and how they accomplish an operation.

Read the laws of war and look at the elements of those laws and you'll understand it isn't a cut and dried situation in which someone can order someone to do soemthing and they do it. Illegal orders should not be followed, period.

If you read the Cornell Law link and review the 1977 protocols, you'll see the justification used by Terrorists for saying their mode of behavior is legal under the law of war. You'll also gain a better understanding of why we are in our present situation if you look at the sponsors for these protocols and bump that knowledge against your knowledge of the primary and secondary actors in today's conflict(s).

Do you not fight a bully who's trying to kill you because the bully holds one of your freinds in front of him and tells you you'll have to go through your friend to get to the bully? No, you do you best not to hurt your friend, but you defend yourself.
Great post!
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 02:49 pm
@sam2007,
sam2007;18049 wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There may be some progress in the Iraq and Afghan wars after the US-Iranian talks yesterday, first in 28 years. If you've ever dealt with the US Deptartment of State employees, you too will find it hard to believe that they would lower themselves to diplomacy or negotiations, especially with "Third World" leaders, whom they refer to as "monkeys."

The real question is at what price will the Iranians be willing to give up all of the following:

1. Stop meddling in Iraq and Afghanistan, risk the US stabilize the 2 countries and then attack Iran,

2. Stop it's nuclear objectives, and

3. Stop it's oil exchange (which began in March 2006) which allows for the export of energy in euros.

If I'm asked to guess which is the most dangerous for the US, I will have to pick # 3, which far exceeds Saddam's cardinal sin of converting Iraq's currency reserves to euros in 1999 and asking euros for oil beginning 2000.


Get real, it's a delaying tactic. That is all it is.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 02:55 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;18016 wrote:
A good plan at the right time is better than a perfect plan after the battle has been lost.
Touche'
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 03:00 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;18021 wrote:
"This is what I mean - all you pro-war people say it's about liberating the Iraqi people..."

Not I. Nope. I just want to see terrorists killed. I prefer the 'terrorist-magnet' paradigm, not the Iraqi liberation paradigm. To hell with that. You can't 'liberate' barbarians.

"you attempt to portray yourselves as people who believe what they are doing is good...."

Good and necessary. Remember 911.

"....and what they support is good but really down inside your just murderous bastards with a cold heart - wanting war and hating the people of the middle east...."

Just the ones who want to kill us, and there are a lot of them.

".....because of irrational, ignorant and racisct ideas that you either got from you mommy and daddy - or your military training....."

Wrong again. I got most of mine from 911.

"I don't know but you think your statement was funny and in fact it was quite revealing."

Yeah....I feel so bad for wanting to see terrorists killed. I'm hurting, bad.

"I am glad most Americans aren't like you...."

They were after 911. They've begun to forget. That's what happens to middle class people. They immediately return to their private, materially driven lives, and forget about everything else. Yes, they've made America successful as a nation, but there is a trade-off, and that is, they are very short-sighted.

"I would move out of this country...."

I think you should. You need the experience and insight. You sound very naive.

"Something is really wrong here though - and what you have said is totally indicative of what I mean. How very sad. People have lost their hearts."

Nah....people just don't want to die. That's about the size of it. When I board a plane to take a trip, I don't want the dang old thang to get blown up in mid-flight. I want to be safe. I also want my country's oil supply to be safe, and fully operational, all the time. I like my life-style. I'm an American.:headbang:
United we stand my brotha!
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 03:04 pm
@lizwitch,
lizwitch;18043 wrote:
No **** sherlock - that is what I am saying - I am trying to tell americans all about how there representative and I am talking democrats and republicans alike are liars - and crooks and they don't care about our military.... .


Duh? Every GI knows or believes that. All you have to do is look at the pay scale and experience one rotation overseas in which COLA goes down in a snap, but takes two years to rise back to its previous level.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 03:06 pm
@lizwitch,
lizwitch;18037 wrote:
What in the hell are you talking about? I am not a dude!

I didn't think you were a dude, your way too emotional.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 03:08 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;18057 wrote:
I didn't think you were a dude, your way too emotional.


She probably had to go make diner. I'm off to do the same, BBQ. Have a good night.
sam2007
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 03:08 pm
@markx15,
Venezuelan prostests are back as in 2002. Now what's behind that?

What's behind that is that Venezuela wants to barter-trade commodities between 13 Latin and South American countries, thus cutting out the dollar, and eventually wants to form an EU-like union with these countries.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 03:08 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;18038 wrote:
You send me. This is a government by the people, for the people, and of the people. You send every troop and every foreign officer to every foreign post to accomplish whatever mission is required to maintain your freedom.

You can't delude yourself into divorcing your responsibility for this from the activities of your representatives. If you don't like it and think you can do a better job, run for office or join the government as a civil servant. Then you can really make a difference instead of throwing rocks at the windows.
Specially when her house is made of glass.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 03:09 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;18058 wrote:
She probably had to go make diner. I'm off to do the same, BBQ. Have a good night.
Be safe out there, i just got back from the lake about an hour ago.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 03:09 pm
@sam2007,
sam2007;18059 wrote:
Venezuelan prostests are back as in 2002. Now what's behind that?

What's behind that is that Venezuela wants to barter-trade commodities between 13 Latin and South American countries, thus cutting out the dollar, and eventually wants to form an EU-like union with these countries.


________________Why?
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 03:09 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;18061 wrote:
Be safe out there, i just got back from the lake about an hour ago.


___________Wilco.
0 Replies
 
lizwitch
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 07:22 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;18046 wrote:
You are right, we shouldn't give blood for oil. That isn't what we are doing. That is a cleaver emotionally based slogan.

You know, on one of these threads some kid said something about being safe and secure in his modern society. That society is built on electrons. If those electrons stop flowing we won't be able to have this scintilating conversation. That kid also won't be able to keep cool in the heat of the summer, refrigerate his food and medicine to prevent spoilage, heat his parent's house in cold weather (unless his parents had the forethought to buy a house with a real wood/coal stove or fireplace), or many other things that make his world nice and safe and confortable and free.

What fuel is used in many of our modern power generation facilities?

Where do we get that fuel?

If his parents live in a major metro area, how do they get to work? If they live more than 5 miles from work and the oil is cut off, they won't have the means to pay for their roof or his clothes, because they won't be able to get to work if the job is not electron based. By the way, those are the only jobs that will be left. If his parents have a service based job, that depends on the flow of oil to get the manufactured goods from China to the US. Oh yeah, the police would have a fun time attempting to keep law and order without the electrons.

How many people would die in the US as a result of this?

What capability would this provide to the thousands of terrorist cells and foreign agents now in the US?

OK, let's allow our enemies to stop the flow of oil. This can literally happen tomorrow even if we don't lay back and enjoy it. Tell me Liz, how would you, as one of our governing officials handle that situation, humm?


This on-going conversation is getting nowhere. Questions upon questions but no answers from you. With the amount of money we have spent on this war - every single freakin house in America could have gotten solar panels installed.

I'm sorry but I am not willing to kill for oil. This oil doesn't belong to us, get it? If the oil men running this country doesn't like the idea of us having to buy from other middle east countries or Canada or Cuba then tough ****.

People's lives are not less valuable then having a warm house or using an electric heater rather than a wood burning stove (which is what I use, by the way) People and government can do a lot more than they do to conserve - more money could be put into research for alternative energy. I can hang my clothes out to dry - I can walk up to or over a mile or ride my bike up to ten miles to go somewhere. I can use electricity efficient light bulbs and I can tele commute or buy a hybrid car. If I were a politician I would push for car makers and importers to only sell cars that get at least a certain amount of mileage per gallon. If I were a politician, I would require all landlords to pass an insulation standard for houses they rent and all hotwater heaters to be fuel efficient and I would do away with those regular light bulbs altogether and go for th good ones.

If I were a politician I would dump a bunch of money into public transit systems so people wouldn't have to drive - If i were a politician - I would push for bills which give more rights to bycylists then drivers - including wider and bigger lanes etc . If I were a politician - but the problem is our politicians won't do these things because they don't make all that money that way - they don't care if we have to fight wars for oil - everyone of them and their friends makes tons of money sending you all off to die in it - and then they get all that oil too - to sell at someoutrageous price that we won't be able to afford anyway - They think oil is some sort of resource we need to live or something - it is for our way of life but if you are willing to kill others so you can live a more convienient life and not have to chop your own wood or ride your bike to the store - or buy more expensive light bulbs to save electricity or turn off your television for half the time you spend watching it then I'm sorry but we totally disagree - I am a humanitarian before I am an American - and I am an American before I am a republican or a democrat - and my party loyalty or my job does not come before what I believe is right and know to be wrong.

The key is to live simply so that others may simply live.

So what is all this talk about freedom and fighting for my freedom - are you fighting for my oil or my freedom - and are you fighting or are you killing - and why are you killing? Did someone tell you that if we didn't kill saddam and install a democracy we would be cut off from the oil supplies all over the world or something - i just don't understand. Do you think you could answer the question.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 07:28 pm
@sam2007,
sam2007;18059 wrote:
Venezuelan prostests are back as in 2002. Now what's behind that?

What's behind that is that Venezuela wants to barter-trade commodities between 13 Latin and South American countries, thus cutting out the dollar, and eventually wants to form an EU-like union with these countries.


Good luck with that, Hugo. It'll never work. Communism is popular in Latin America, due to the overwhelming poverty endemic to the region. Nonetheless, Latin America's elites will never permit it to succeed. Good on'm.
lizwitch
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 07:34 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;18101 wrote:
Good luck with that, Hugo. It'll never work. Communism is popular in Latin America, due to the overwhelming poverty endemic to the region. Nonetheless, Latin America's elites will never permit it to succeed. Good on'm.


Boy oh boy - it is already working - the EURO will be and is already taking shape as the international exchange medium - have you looked at exchange rates recently - the american dollar's value has plunged - every dollar is now worth half a Euro and it is dropping like no body's business. We are all about to watch our way of life change - and it will make the great depression look like a walk in the park - remember katrina and the city as the authorities bailed and the city became every man for himself since our government was uninterested for three freakin days before sening help in - well that will be nationwide and you and your loved ones are not immune - the elite wealthy our leaders will not suffer the consequences which is why they invests overseas and change that dollar they make off of your dead friends - and your victims - and turn it into gold - and off to some land in some foreign company where some foreign government will protect them from any trials or problems or international prosecution for the theives and war criminals they are - and you and i and every other american will be left here to fend for ourselves - no money, no economy, a bunch of people who will hate our guts for what our govenment did to them - and then you will see just what everyone is talking about....
lizwitch
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 07:37 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;18055 wrote:
United we stand my brotha!


And divided we shall fall, brother!
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 May, 2007 07:52 pm
@lizwitch,
lizwitch;18098 wrote:
This on-going conversation is getting nowhere. Questions upon questions but no answers from you. With the amount of money we have spent on this war - every single freakin house in America could have gotten solar panels installed.

I'm sorry but I am not willing to kill for oil. This oil doesn't belong to us, get it? If the oil men running this country doesn't like the idea of us having to buy from other middle east countries or Canada or Cuba then tough ****.

People's lives are not less valuable then having a warm house or using an electric heater rather than a wood burning stove (which is what I use, by the way) People and government can do a lot more than they do to conserve - more money could be put into research for alternative energy. I can hang my clothes out to dry - I can walk up to or over a mile or ride my bike up to ten miles to go somewhere. I can use electricity efficient light bulbs and I can tele commute or buy a hybrid car. If I were a politician I would push for car makers and importers to only sell cars that get at least a certain amount of mileage per gallon. If I were a politician, I would require all landlords to pass an insulation standard for houses they rent and all hotwater heaters to be fuel efficient and I would do away with those regular light bulbs altogether and go for th good ones.

If I were a politician I would dump a bunch of money into public transit systems so people wouldn't have to drive - If i were a politician - I would push for bills which give more rights to bycylists then drivers - including wider and bigger lanes etc . If I were a politician - but the problem is our politicians won't do these things because they don't make all that money that way - they don't care if we have to fight wars for oil - everyone of them and their friends makes tons of money sending you all off to die in it - and then they get all that oil too - to sell at someoutrageous price that we won't be able to afford anyway - They think oil is some sort of resource we need to live or something - it is for our way of life but if you are willing to kill others so you can live a more convienient life and not have to chop your own wood or ride your bike to the store - or buy more expensive light bulbs to save electricity or turn off your television for half the time you spend watching it then I'm sorry but we totally disagree - I am a humanitarian before I am an American - and I am an American before I am a republican or a democrat - and my party loyalty or my job does not come before what I believe is right and know to be wrong.

The key is to live simply so that others may simply live.

So what is all this talk about freedom and fighting for my freedom - are you fighting for my oil or my freedom - and are you fighting or are you killing - and why are you killing? Did someone tell you that if we didn't kill saddam and install a democracy we would be cut off from the oil supplies all over the world or something - i just don't understand. Do you think you could answer the question.
If, if that's all i hear. Why aren't you?
0 Replies
 
 

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