How's the War?

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;12925 wrote:

Smash radical Islam. Smash it hard, flat and repeatedly. Keep smashing it, too.:devilheadbang:

This is what I mean - all you pro-war people say it's about liberating the Iraqi people - you attempt to portray yourselves as people who believe what they are doing is good - and what they support is good but really down inside your just murderous bastards with a cold heart - wanting war and hating the people of the middle east - because of irrational, ignorant and racisct ideas that you either got from you mommy and daddy - or your military training - I don't know but you think your statement was funny and in fact it was quite revealing. I am glad most Americans aren't like you - I would move out of this country - Something is really wrong here though - and what you have said is totally indicative of what I mean. How very sad. People have lost their hearts.

2 Replies

@lizwitch,

lizwitch;18009 wrote:

This is what I mean - all you pro-war people say it's about liberating the Iraqi people - you attempt to portray yourselves as people who believe what they are doing is good - and what they support is good but really down inside your just murderous bastards with a cold heart - wanting war and hating the people of the middle east - because of irrational, ignorant and racisct ideas that you either got from you mommy and daddy - or your military training - I don't know but you think your statement was funny and in fact it was quite revealing. I am glad most Americans aren't like you - I would move out of this country - Something is really wrong here though - and what you have said is totally indicative of what I mean. How very sad. People have lost their hearts.

It's not prowar. This isn't a slogan, it's survival.

I take it you are a "liberal" based on your posts. Then, depending on your zeal and exposure, you'll have heard the term old cold-warrior. I claim that title and have served in that capacity to keep you safe for at least 28 years.

Pinochet73 does not exactly see eye to eye with me, nor me to him. Please don't paint us all with that broad brush of yours. That is a favorite technique of people who try to discredit others, usually because they have a predjudice that was just energized.

If you really wish to screw yourself into the ceiling, please see the thread about the Bible Party of the USA. There is no murder, racisim, or hatred there, although you may wish to think there is. That thread really got Pinochet73 going too.

1 Reply

@Volunteer,

Volunteer;18011 wrote:

It's not prowar. This isn't a slogan, it's survival.

I take it you are a "liberal" based on your posts. Then, depending on your zeal and exposure, you'll have heard the term old cold-warrior. I claim that title and have served in that capacity to keep you safe for at least 28 years.

Pinochet73 does not exactly see eye to eye with me, nor me to him. Please don't paint us all with that broad brush of yours. That is a favorite technique of people who try to discredit others, usually because they have a predjudice that was just energized.

If you really wish to screw yourself into the ceiling, please see the thread about the Bible Party of the USA. There is no murder, racisim, or hatred there, although you may wish to think there is. That thread really got Pinochet73 going too.

Exactly - it is survival for you guys. This is what really sucks - they put you in a position to kill or be killed. That takes a part of your soul and it is a huge sacrifice for anyone to be making. When a decision is made to send our military off to war - whoever makes that decision better be damned certain the facts are in order. They better check and recheck and they better make sure that our men have the best equipment, the best training the best leaders the plan A and the plan B - When war happens people die and when people die someone has got to answer for it - this administration is making a freakin boat load of money and our leaders from both sides of the fence in congress and the senate are making their fortunes off of your sacrifice - off of the sacrifice you make and are told you are making for all of us - and the Iraqi people. We know differently and we are stupid enough to buy this support your troops **** by supporting this idea to send them off to die or kill is supporting them - if there was a good reason for you to be there in the first place then you would be the heroes - and you still are heroes to all of us even those of us who are against this war - it's not your fault - you are doing your job and only that - and probably well too - It's their fault. We don't want your lives wasted n their freaking idea of how to make their next million - we don't want you coming home to practically nothing if you make t home at all but they won't give us what we want them to give - we want decent medical care for you guys - psychological care for those who will need it - we don't want them sticking you in some rat infested moldy hospital with transient doctors and roaches - o sending you for 3 or 4 rounds even if you are injured - we want reasons and damned good ones for this war in the first place not the ever changing stories - our military belongs to us - the people they are our sons and daughters and loved ones their sons and daughters and loved ones are not serving - ours are - and you better be goddamned sure, there senator or congressmen that you are taking them to war for a goddamned good reason - and most of us have determined that this is not good reasn - we want you home - not being used by these dirty rotten rat bastards. That is how it is for us so called anti-war - people - if war is necessary than it is - but this one is not - they have used you and us and our money for their own benefit and they should all be hung or given a gun and sent to war themselves....it must be hard for you to hear this and I am truley sorry I do actually find you all to be heros even the gun ho - punks - they are just young - but they are brave - but this is absolutely ridiculous - I know enough ex vets from vietnam and korea who have become loud voices in the peace movement because their experiences were similiar - and they are sick of seeing it too. Something has got to change -

4 Replies

@lizwitch,

lizwitch;18015 wrote:

Exactly - it is survival for you guys. This is what really sucks - they put you in a position to kill or be killed. That takes a part of your soul and it is a huge sacrifice for anyone to be making. When a decision is made to send our military off to war - whoever makes that decision better be damned certain the facts are in order. They better check and recheck and they better make sure that our men have the best equipment, the best training the best leaders the plan A and the plan B - When war happens people die and when people die someone has got to answer for it - this administration is making a freakin boat load of money and our leaders from both sides of the fence in congress and the senate are making their fortunes off of your sacrifice - off of the sacrifice you make and are told you are making for all of us - and the Iraqi people. We know differently and we are stupid enough to buy this support your troops **** by supporting this idea to send them off to die or kill is supporting them - if there was a good reason for you to be there in the first place then you would be the heroes - and you still are heroes to all of us even those of us who are against this war - it's not your fault - you are doing your job and only that - and probably well too - It's their fault. We don't want your lives wasted n their freaking idea of how to make their next million - we don't want you coming home to practically nothing if you make t home at all but they won't give us what we want them to give - we want decent medical care for you guys - psychological care for those who will need it - we don't want them sticking you in some rat infested moldy hospital with transient doctors and roaches - o sending you for 3 or 4 rounds even if you are injured - we want reasons and damned good ones for this war in the first place not the ever changing stories - our military belongs to us - the people they are our sons and daughters and loved ones their sons and daughters and loved ones are not serving - ours are - and you better be ***ed sure, there senator or congressmen that you are taking them to war for a ***ed good reason - and most of us have determined that this is not good reasn - we want you home - not being used by these dirty rotten rat bastards. That is how it is for us so called anti-war - people - if war is necessary than it is - but this one is not - they have used you and us and our money for their own benefit and they should all be hung or given a gun and sent to war themselves....it must be hard for you to hear this and I am truley sorry I do actually find you all to be heros even the gun ho - punks - they are just young - but they are brave - but this is absolutely ridiculous - I know enough ex vets from vietnam and korea who have become loud voices in the peace movement because their experiences were similiar - and they are sick of seeing it too. Something has got to change -

A good plan at the right time is better than a perfect plan after the battle has been lost.

1 Reply

@lizwitch,

lizwitch;18015 wrote:

Exactly - it is survival for you guys. This is what really sucks - they put you in a position to kill or be killed. That takes a part of your soul and it is a huge sacrifice for anyone to be making. When a decision is made to send our military off to war - whoever makes that decision better be damned certain the facts are in order. They better check and recheck and they better make sure that our men have the best equipment, the best training the best leaders the plan A and the plan B - When war happens people die and when people die someone has got to answer for it - this administration is making a freakin boat load of money and our leaders from both sides of the fence in congress and the senate are making their fortunes off of your sacrifice - off of the sacrifice you make and are told you are making for all of us - and the Iraqi people. We know differently and we are stupid enough to buy this support your troops **** by supporting this idea to send them off to die or kill is supporting them - if there was a good reason for you to be there in the first place then you would be the heroes - and you still are heroes to all of us even those of us who are against this war - it's not your fault - you are doing your job and only that - and probably well too - It's their fault. We don't want your lives wasted n their freaking idea of how to make their next million - we don't want you coming home to practically nothing if you make t home at all but they won't give us what we want them to give - we want decent medical care for you guys - psychological care for those who will need it - we don't want them sticking you in some rat infested moldy hospital with transient doctors and roaches - o sending you for 3 or 4 rounds even if you are injured - we want reasons and damned good ones for this war in the first place not the ever changing stories - our military belongs to us - the people they are our sons and daughters and loved ones their sons and daughters and loved ones are not serving - ours are - and you better be ***ed sure, there senator or congressmen that you are taking them to war for a ***ed good reason - and most of us have determined that this is not good reasn - we want you home - not being used by these dirty rotten rat bastards. That is how it is for us so called anti-war - people - if war is necessary than it is - but this one is not - they have used you and us and our money for their own benefit and they should all be hung or given a gun and sent to war themselves....it must be hard for you to hear this and I am truley sorry I do actually find you all to be heros even the gun ho - punks - they are just young - but they are brave - but this is absolutely ridiculous - I know enough ex vets from vietnam and korea who have become loud voices in the peace movement because their experiences were similiar - and they are sick of seeing it too. Something has got to change -

If you don't want them sticking it to our troops then don't vote for those who use our troops for political purpose and could care less about the effect of those political machinations on the troops deployed on the front line or the strategic effect of their retreat.

0 Replies

@lizwitch,

lizwitch;18015 wrote:

Exactly - it is survival for you guys. This is what really sucks - they put you in a position to kill or be killed. That takes a part of your soul and it is a huge sacrifice for anyone to be making. When a decision is made to send our military off to war - whoever makes that decision better be damned certain the facts are in order. They better check and recheck and they better make sure that our men have the best equipment, the best training the best leaders the plan A and the plan B - When war happens people die and when people die someone has got to answer for it - this administration is making a freakin boat load of money and our leaders from both sides of the fence in congress and the senate are making their fortunes off of your sacrifice - off of the sacrifice you make and are told you are making for all of us - and the Iraqi people. We know differently and we are stupid enough to buy this support your troops **** by supporting this idea to send them off to die or kill is supporting them - if there was a good reason for you to be there in the first place then you would be the heroes - and you still are heroes to all of us even those of us who are against this war - it's not your fault - you are doing your job and only that - and probably well too - It's their fault. We don't want your lives wasted n their freaking idea of how to make their next million - we don't want you coming home to practically nothing if you make t home at all but they won't give us what we want them to give - we want decent medical care for you guys - psychological care for those who will need it - we don't want them sticking you in some rat infested moldy hospital with transient doctors and roaches - o sending you for 3 or 4 rounds even if you are injured - we want reasons and damned good ones for this war in the first place not the ever changing stories - our military belongs to us - the people they are our sons and daughters and loved ones their sons and daughters and loved ones are not serving - ours are - and you better be ***ed sure, there senator or congressmen that you are taking them to war for a ***ed good reason - and most of us have determined that this is not good reasn - we want you home - not being used by these dirty rotten rat bastards. That is how it is for us so called anti-war - people - if war is necessary than it is - but this one is not - they have used you and us and our money for their own benefit and they should all be hung or given a gun and sent to war themselves....it must be hard for you to hear this and I am truley sorry I do actually find you all to be heros even the gun ho - punks - they are just young - but they are brave - but this is absolutely ridiculous - I know enough ex vets from vietnam and korea who have become loud voices in the peace movement because their experiences were similiar - and they are sick of seeing it too. Something has got to change -

The world doesn't give us what we want. There is a constant battle between good and evil. You believe that by preventing any response to conflict initiated by our enemies you are preventing war. Some in the anti-war movement believe there are no enemies, just misunderstood people who aren't yet our friends.

Look at world war II. Would you rather wait until One or two countries are left capable of fighting for your freedom, or would it be better to address the gathering storm before the industrial, economic, and moral base is destroyed?

0 Replies

@lizwitch,

lizwitch;18015 wrote:

Exactly - it is survival for you guys. This is what really sucks - they put you in a position to kill or be killed. That takes a part of your soul and it is a huge sacrifice for anyone to be making. When a decision is made to send our military off to war - whoever makes that decision better be damned certain the facts are in order. They better check and recheck and they better make sure that our men have the best equipment, the best training the best leaders the plan A and the plan B - When war happens people die and when people die someone has got to answer for it - this administration is making a freakin boat load of money and our leaders from both sides of the fence in congress and the senate are making their fortunes off of your sacrifice - off of the sacrifice you make and are told you are making for all of us - and the Iraqi people. We know differently and we are stupid enough to buy this support your troops **** by supporting this idea to send them off to die or kill is supporting them - if there was a good reason for you to be there in the first place then you would be the heroes - and you still are heroes to all of us even those of us who are against this war - it's not your fault - you are doing your job and only that - and probably well too - It's their fault. We don't want your lives wasted n their freaking idea of how to make their next million - we don't want you coming home to practically nothing if you make t home at all but they won't give us what we want them to give - we want decent medical care for you guys - psychological care for those who will need it - we don't want them sticking you in some rat infested moldy hospital with transient doctors and roaches - o sending you for 3 or 4 rounds even if you are injured - we want reasons and damned good ones for this war in the first place not the ever changing stories - our military belongs to us - the people they are our sons and daughters and loved ones their sons and daughters and loved ones are not serving - ours are - and you better be ***ed sure, there senator or congressmen that you are taking them to war for a ***ed good reason - and most of us have determined that this is not good reasn - we want you home - not being used by these dirty rotten rat bastards. That is how it is for us so called anti-war - people - if war is necessary than it is - but this one is not - they have used you and us and our money for their own benefit and they should all be hung or given a gun and sent to war themselves....it must be hard for you to hear this and I am truley sorry I do actually find you all to be heros even the gun ho - punks - they are just young - but they are brave - but this is absolutely ridiculous - I know enough ex vets from vietnam and korea who have become loud voices in the peace movement because their experiences were similiar - and they are sick of seeing it too. Something has got to change -

Is this also a manifestation of your personal feeling of guilt that someone else is fighting and dying to keep you free? What are you doing to help that fight? Telling people to stop fighting when they are fighting for your doesn't stop the fight, it only delays it.

Who are they? Aren't They your reps? Aren't they doing what you ask them to do in the "peace years?" Don't those years create the conditions that lead to wars?

1 Reply

@markx15,

Actually, the troops aren't fighting to keep you free or me free or for freedom of speech, or for any of the other media friendly reasons. They are fighting to keep their families and friends free and free from harm. Your freedom and your safety are by-products.

0 Replies

@lizwitch,

"This is what I mean - all you pro-war people say it's about liberating the Iraqi people..."

Not I. Nope. I just want to see terrorists killed. I prefer the 'terrorist-magnet' paradigm, not the Iraqi liberation paradigm. To hell with that. You can't 'liberate' barbarians.

"you attempt to portray yourselves as people who believe what they are doing is good...."

Good and necessary. Remember 911.

"....and what they support is good but really down inside your just murderous bastards with a cold heart - wanting war and hating the people of the middle east...."

Just the ones who want to kill us, and there are a lot of them.

".....because of irrational, ignorant and racisct ideas that you either got from you mommy and daddy - or your military training....."

Wrong again. I got most of mine from 911.

"I don't know but you think your statement was funny and in fact it was quite revealing."

Yeah....I feel so bad for wanting to see terrorists killed. I'm hurting, bad.

"I am glad most Americans aren't like you...."

They were after 911. They've begun to forget. That's what happens to middle class people. They immediately return to their private, materially driven lives, and forget about everything else. Yes, they've made America successful as a nation, but there is a trade-off, and that is, they are very short-sighted.

"I would move out of this country...."

I think you should. You need the experience and insight. You sound very naive.

"Something is really wrong here though - and what you have said is totally indicative of what I mean. How very sad. People have lost their hearts."

Nah....people just don't want to die. That's about the size of it. When I board a plane to take a trip, I don't want the dang old thang to get blown up in mid-flight. I want to be safe. I also want my country's oil supply to be safe, and fully operational, all the time. I like my life-style. I'm an American.:headbang:

2 Replies

@Pinochet73,

Pinochet73;18021 wrote:

Nah....people just don't want to die. That's about the size of it. When I board a plane to take a trip, I don't want the dang old thang to get blown up in mid-flight. I want to be safe. I also want my country's oil supply to be safe, and fully operational, all the time. I like my life-style. I'm an American.

I shortened it to save space. Good post Pino. Sorry Liz Witch, he's right.

1 Reply

@markx15,

Hooaaahh.

0 Replies

@markx15,

Hey Liz,

Why would a dude call himself Liz Witch? Are you confused? Isn't that the name for a dudette?

1 Reply

@Volunteer,

Volunteer;18019 wrote:

Is this also a manifestation of your personal feeling of guilt that someone else is fighting and dying to keep you free? What are you doing to help that fight? Telling people to stop fighting when they are fighting for your doesn't stop the fight, it only delays it.

Who are they? Aren't They your reps? Aren't they doing what you ask them to do in the "peace years?" Don't those years create the conditions that lead to wars?

You are not fighting and dieing to keep me free - your fighting - and your killing is further endangering my life, my family's life, an our country's well being but I don't blame you - I blame those that send you there.

The more you occupy that country the more terrorism has taken root. There are more terrorists networks now then ever before and there is more funding and they are more powerful because with this invasion and the torture incidents and the many videos on youtube which are taken by our own military showing them blowing away unarmed civillians and laughing about it - there is a huge uprising happening around the globe against the military industry in America - And unfortunately as with all countries the people will be held responsible for the acts of their government - We will be paying the price and not just financially (that is a given) I'm talking karmically - everyone in the world hates us now - they think we should have done something to stop them - some of us tried - but the news networks kept the majority of the population dumbed down - and they are waking up now but the damage has been done and it keeps getting worse. Taking Saddams castle for an American embassy is lame as hell - the Iraqis deserve it they were the victims of that tyrant - who do we think we are - and here we seem to be able to protect those oil lines and our embassy (billion dollar one at that ) is a project and the first of it's kind that is on time - on budget and seeing progress - the infastructure in Iraq is despicable - we aren't there to help the Iraqis and it's clear they don't want us there - so why are we staying there - to say they need us and don't know it is quite superior - we made a mess out of their country - and a mess of their lives and there is widespread suffering and grief and death and destruction - more than when saddam was in charge - and that is what they see - They had a democratic election and elected democratically their leaders and their leaders say they want america out and america is still there - do we respec their soveriegnty now that we installed a democracy or not? What the **** is going on over there - I don't want to hear your broad unsubstantiated ******* statements about doing this for my freedom - do you hear me - i want to know what exactly it is you are doing to protect me if that is what you are claiming. I feel vulnerable because of this war - more so then ever before - Where is Bin Laden - the world's most powerful army can't ******* find him? Come along - this wasn't about bin laden - it wasnt about 9/11 and you and I both freakin know it. it is just harder for you to admit it because you are in the throws of it all - it will take more courage from you and other in the miliatary to take a stand for the truth - which will show you just how much freedom you nor I or the Iraqis have in this situation - no freedom - man - none - we can talk all we want but start making a difference and watch what happens to you - dead man walking.

1 Reply

@Volunteer,

Volunteer;18031 wrote:

Hey Liz,

Why would a dude call himself Liz Witch? Are you confused? Isn't that the name for a dudette?

What in the hell are you talking about? I am not a dude!

2 Replies

@lizwitch,

lizwitch;18034 wrote:

You are not fighting and dieing to keep me free - your fighting - and your killing is further endangering my life, my family's life, an our country's well being but I don't blame you - I blame those that send you there.

You send me. This is a government by the people, for the people, and of the people. You send every troop and every foreign officer to every foreign post to accomplish whatever mission is required to maintain your freedom.

You can't delude yourself into divorcing your responsibility for this from the activities of your representatives. If you don't like it and think you can do a better job, run for office or join the government as a civil servant. Then you can really make a difference instead of throwing rocks at the windows.

2 Replies

@Volunteer,

Volunteer;18024 wrote:

I shortened it to save space. Good post Pino. Sorry Liz Witch, he's right.

Blood for oil - nope they are right - this is blood for oil then isn't it. You won't mind if some other country decides they want something that belongs to us and comes in and kills your loved ones for it then? That is lovely - you all have some integrity talking like that and the rest of america wonders why the world hates us so much. For christ sake - it is getting better all the time - we got war profiteering, oil theiving, conservative christian compassionate pro-lifers in our white house pushingwars capital punishment and torture and we have our freedom fighters fighting for no ones freedom but the oil man's oil so they can turn around and sell it to his own people for a price that we can barely afford but the oil men are making record breaking profits - profits that break records for all industries in the entire history of the united states and then they call that economics. This is one crazy freakin twisted scene and getting worse all the time. Come on you guys - are you securing oil - are you liberating those Iraqis and saving them from the tyrant are you fighting for our freedom and keepingamerica safe - which the **** is it and explain how you are doing whichever one it is you claim to do -

1 Reply

@lizwitch,

lizwitch;18037 wrote:

What in the hell are you talking about? I am not a dude!

Good, I wouldn't want to think a dude would have those views.

Sorry, I thought you said you were a 41 year old male on another thread. I confused Pino's exclamation of "Man" after your age with your gender. I knew it sounded like you were a girl.

0 Replies

@Volunteer,

Volunteer;18038 wrote:

You send me. This is a government by the people, for the people, and of the people. You send every troop and every foreign officer to every foreign post to accomplish whatever mission is required to maintain your freedom.

You can't delude yourself into divorcing your responsibility for this from the activities of your representatives. If you don't like it and think you can do a better job, run for office or join the government as a civil servant. Then you can really make a difference instead of throwing rocks at the windows.

No **** sherlock - that is what I am saying - I am trying to tell americans all about how there representative and I am talking democrats and republicans alike are liars - and crooks and they don't care about our military but I wound up on a site with a bunch of military people arguing with me - how was I to know - i thought you guys weren't aloud to blog and stuff - you might give away national secrets or tell the truth on the racketeering team...you might save your own lives and a few more innocent lives if too many people find out the goddamned truth but it is hard to take responsibility when people like you guys work against the truth - how can i share the truth when no lazy ass americans will go read the bills for themselves - did any one of you read that appropriations bill or any of them? all of it? I bet you didn't - well I did - I read legislation all the time - i go a few times a week and reveiw bills and committee reports and I am telling you these leaders are not on our side - that means, yours, mine, the american people's or the iraqis it's all a farce - a lie - a two party facisict state which deludes the american people into thinking they actually have a freakin voice - The military belongs to the people not the government - but you wouldn't know that with the way they treat you guys.

2 Replies

@markx15,

Hiiii

1 Reply

@lizwitch,

lizwitch;18041 wrote:

Blood for oil - nope they are right - this is blood for oil then isn't it. You won't mind if some other country decides they want something that belongs to us and comes in and kills your loved ones for it then? That is lovely - you all have some integrity talking like that and the rest of america wonders why the world hates us so much. For christ sake - it is getting better all the time - we got war profiteering, oil theiving, conservative christian compassionate pro-lifers in our white house pushingwars capital punishment and torture and we have our freedom fighters fighting for no ones freedom but the oil man's oil so they can turn around and sell it to his own people for a price that we can barely afford but the oil men are making record breaking profits - profits that break records for all industries in the entire history of the united states and then they call that economics. This is one crazy freakin twisted scene and getting worse all the time. Come on you guys - are you securing oil - are you liberating those Iraqis and saving them from the tyrant are you fighting for our freedom and keepingamerica safe - which the *** is it and explain how you are doing whichever one it is you claim to do -

You are right, we shouldn't give blood for oil. That isn't what we are doing. That is a cleaver emotionally based slogan.

You know, on one of these threads some kid said something about being safe and secure in his modern society. That society is built on electrons. If those electrons stop flowing we won't be able to have this scintilating conversation. That kid also won't be able to keep cool in the heat of the summer, refrigerate his food and medicine to prevent spoilage, heat his parent's house in cold weather (unless his parents had the forethought to buy a house with a real wood/coal stove or fireplace), or many other things that make his world nice and safe and confortable and free.

What fuel is used in many of our modern power generation facilities?

Where do we get that fuel?

If his parents live in a major metro area, how do they get to work? If they live more than 5 miles from work and the oil is cut off, they won't have the means to pay for their roof or his clothes, because they won't be able to get to work if the job is not electron based. By the way, those are the only jobs that will be left. If his parents have a service based job, that depends on the flow of oil to get the manufactured goods from China to the US. Oh yeah, the police would have a fun time attempting to keep law and order without the electrons.

How many people would die in the US as a result of this?

What capability would this provide to the thousands of terrorist cells and foreign agents now in the US?

OK, let's allow our enemies to stop the flow of oil. This can literally happen tomorrow even if we don't lay back and enjoy it. Tell me Liz, how would you, as one of our governing officials handle that situation, humm?

1 Reply

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