How's the War?

What is your basis for this statement?

...the majority of the iraqi people dont want us troops on their soil,....

i think its common knowledge :thumbup: i tell you what,if geroge bush is seen as a great liberator,let him walk on the streets of baghdad to the adulation of the people :thumbup:

What is your basis for this statement?



So, you made it up. What does the statement have to do with the like or dislike of President Bush?

Markx15 - your post is entirely correct. I remember the hotel being bombed by US forces as well and I remember the Spanish journalists boycotting their government because they refused to investigate the whole incident any further. They claimed that they asked the US Gov. about it and they said it was a mistake and they decided that it was sufficient. However, one of their most famous journalists was killed and journalists from all over were claiming (american journalists too) that the American government was in fact targetting them intentionally. The stories are plentiful and even congress was forced to address the issue a few times some years ago. It was this reason that the incumbents in Spain lost the election - they tried to blame it on the train bombings - but the truth is they used the train bombings to scare the people like the american people are manipulated and easily scared by claims of terrorists attacks - but the Spanish were not to be manipulated and their government saw the result of their actions or non-actions...unlike our government sees.

I remember reading all about this and many other incidents - so I hear you on this. Sorry so many others here can not hear the truth when the truth is told. They just assume make you wrong then believe something -like that because if they were to admit you were right then it would make them fooled - fooled by this and many other things as well - and no one wants to be a fool - so they just assume be a fool forever then face the truth and do something about it.

The American mainstream media is owned by 3 (count them - 1 2 3) corporations - munitions invested - war contracted - and defense contracted corporations - GE - one of the wars biggests contractors, for instances owns NBC and MSNBC and a whole sleu of cable stations as well - and it only takes a little common sense to figure what they say and don't say about the war - but people in this country - you have to forgive their ignorance as they are victims of a very well thought out and carefully choreographed plan to dumb down the American population so the so -called - leaders can take us all for a ride. They still think it's republicans versus the democrats instead of the people versus the politicians. The elite wealthy - the very smallest minority in this country is running and always has run this country - a country who claims to be a democracy and represented - ohhh puleease

The democrats and the republicans decided a long time ago that they drink from the same well - so they weren't going to spit in it. The system is set up for them and not for us. Yet as we sit in front of our propaganda boxes - called the television - and read those so called news papers censored by the same class of people and we learn all those things they call our history - we are taught patriotism - we pledge to the flag every morning of school for 12 years even our higher education system is set up to create thinkers to assist the polluters and the elites - to continue raping us and the earth and the earths people - knowing that when resources run dry - they will be the ones most likely to survive. It's sad, really - but my people are just victims - they sound indifferent and they sound ignorant - but it's not their fault.

I'm sick of you ******** trying to be so **********, when it fact, you're just a bunch of ***********. ******* you.....all of you. Yeah...that's right -- :mebeer:

Class conflict is a communist concept.

The unit that hit the hotel had either received fire from the hotel or it was being used as a spotting post. When that happened, the hotel became a legitimate target. The fact that journalists occupied the hotel did not give it special protection. This fact was probably one reason the enemy used the hotel as a base of operations. The sympathy of the foreign press also helped the enemy gain a foothold in the hotel from which to operate.

Great propaganda ploy.

I agree with you about both parties.

Your point about big media ownership, while probably true, does not translate into an excuse for US Citizens or the citizens of most western countries to be ignorant of the truth about world events. This medium we are using is the reason.

Class conflict is a communist concept.

Volunteer, I ask you, as you said that the presence of terrorists in the hotel made it a legitimate target, how many civilians is it ok to kill? Do you believe they had anything to do with these radicals? One more question, why don't we have at least an estimate from the army about civilian casualties? Is it perhaps because these men(and women) are under orders to fire at anything that moves?

I agree - there is no excuse for ignorance but the misinformation that this free medium hosts and the very overload of counter truth operations and psyops - have caused even greater confusion. It's not easy to realize that everything you ever thought was true was a lie - the very history you learned, the patriotism you felt right along with other emotions was a man made tool to use against you latter if you were to find out the truth - that the leaders you vote for aren't on your side - that you don't have a free press - well not a diverse and independent one acting as the watchdogs for the american people - the whole freakin carefully crafted and skillfully orchestrated concept of democracy, free world, the american dream - glorification of war "heros" and wars etc is nothing but a bunch of lies, propaganda and you are nothing but a sucker - and a fool or were - is not easy to swallow or face - or accept - it's a choker.

Don't confuse democracy or freedom with capitalism

That is why sympathy for terrorists is such a self-deluded concept. These people (the terrorists) don't care how many innocents are in the line of fire.

In their eyes, the more the better because they can gain from the death of innocents. They gain by the initial physical protection provided by the innocent; they gain by the death of the innocent when the innocent is a collateral casualty because the local populace sees the conflict and the person who is resisting the terrorist as the agressor, they gain from the international attention gained in attention to their cause and in the propaganda against the people who resist; they gain in the chaos created when relatives and friends of those killed follow their emotions and add to the chaos.

Their mode of operation is to hide behind innocents in the hope that people who care about life will hesitate or decide not to shoot because of the possibility the innocent will be killed. Is this thought process good or evil.

Our forces are not under orders to fire at anything that moves. That would be an illegal order.

If you are as I believe, a child under the age of 20; then you need to get some books and learn about warfare, the laws of war, and read the United States' Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Or go to:International Law - Council on Foreign Relations

Or: Uniform Code of Military Justice - UCMJ

Or:http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/231101p.pdf

Or: Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field, 75 U.N.T.S. 31, entered into force Oct. 21, 1950.

Or: International Humanitarian Law - First 1949 Geneva Convention

Or: UN Convention on the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces (I)

Or: Geneva Conventions - Wex

You will understand then that what you suggest is not appropriate and would not be carried out by our soldiers.

Now, if you break down the command structure of a platoon or company and have an isolated unit they may obtain a common, and wrong, mode of operation similar to their enemy. This situation is termed a breakdown of military order and discipline. This is not a situation any commander wants.

Rules of Engagement (ROE) are almost always in favor of protecting innocents in the line of fire. Military necessity is only one factor our troops must use to determine what they do for an operation and how they accomplish an operation.

Read the laws of war and look at the elements of those laws and you'll understand it isn't a cut and dried situation in which someone can order someone to do soemthing and they do it. Illegal orders should not be followed, period.

If you read the Cornell Law link and review the 1977 protocols, you'll see the justification used by Terrorists for saying their mode of behavior is legal under the law of war. You'll also gain a better understanding of why we are in our present situation if you look at the sponsors for these protocols and bump that knowledge against your knowledge of the primary and secondary actors in today's conflict(s).

Do you not fight a bully who's trying to kill you because the bully holds one of your freinds in front of him and tells you you'll have to go through your friend to get to the bully? No, you do you best not to hurt your friend, but you defend yourself.

I don't think he asked you how terrorists feel about how many civillians and innocent people are okay to kill to get the so called target - I think he asked you what your opinion is on that subject? It was not the terrorist who bombed the hotel it was the American military. Terrorism is defined as those who kill innocent civillians for political causes - wouldn't that make the us military terrorists then? I think that was the point he was trying to make but you gave him a lesson on terrorism which I don't think he needed nor asked for. Perhaps you should just answer the question.