61
   

The Confederacy was About Slavery

 
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 05:35 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
England lost.
Benedict Arnold lost.

The Confederacy lost.
Robert E Lee lost.

You didn't at any point in typing this think

Wait...I make a point, you see the point, and your comment is that I was making the opposite point therefore I am wrong . Who writes this for you ? The same people who do the Simpsons ? You got all excited thinking you were being clever....you should know better than that .....try reading it again....this time move your lips and read it slowly ....

"Because he was on the losing side . The man was a hero for HIS cause...stop rewriting history to agree with your politics now . If the British had of won and the colonies were not lead astray buy a group of radical revolutionaries and terrorists, you would be celebrating him ."
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 05:37 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
You quoted that whole exchange, and failed to absorb the central premise. "Some people are just assholes. They spout ... crap on the Internet "
I hope forming such a thoroughly researched opinion didnt take up too much of your time....now tell me who gives a **** what you think ??
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 05:39 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
While I think that Io is an idiot
No doubt this is based on your opinion being the only one to be tolerated and enjoyed by all.....wouldnt it be a lovely world if we were all just like you....
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 05:41 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I don't ever read lo's posts
Thank you Ed, I appreciate you not struggling with complex ideas but adding insults every now and then....we all have to do as much as we can .
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  4  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 05:57 pm
@Ionus,
Not at all,
Its based solely on your comments on this thread, and is solely my opinion.
I dont force others to accept my opinion, nor do I expect others to agree with me.
It is my opinion, expressed by me, and speaking only for myself.

Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 06:00 pm
@mysteryman,
So based solely on my comments on this thread you have deduced which of the following, or both definitions :

idiot
id·i·ot
–noun
1.
an utterly foolish or senseless person.
2.
Psychology. a person of the lowest order in a former classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25.

Quote:
I dont force others to accept my opinion, nor do I expect others to agree with me.
You call them an idiot for the fun of it ?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 07:02 pm
@mysteryman,
Gov Bob Mcdonnell of Va recently gave a speech in which he did not mention the issue of slavery being the central issue of the Civil War. In fact, he didnt mention the issue of slavery AT ALL. This is rather unusual for a governor giving a speech on the occassion fo the opening events that will mark a 4 year commemoration of the sesquicentennial of the US Civil War.
I can sorta understand gov Bobs public cowardice on the issue. After all, he wants to benefit by luring tourist dollars to the Commonwealth dsuring this period. After all Virginia has probably got more extant Civil war sites in its boundaries than does any other state. The War began and "ended" there (If you dont accept Joe Johnston, Edmund Kirby SMith and Stand Watties surrenders). SO the governor probably doesnt want to stir the pot too much. (Seems he doesnt care if he offends a minority of Americans).

Ive also read several bloggers opinions of Gov Bob's lack of any mention of the issue of slavery. These several bloggers werent too complimentary . I wont quote any of them except to relate that, in several Virginia "Civil War sesquicentennial sites" I was able to read ALEXANDER HAMILTON STEPHENS' "Cornerstone Speech" which summarized for Stephens, the entire underpinning of the Confederacy and what it stood for. Stephens, as the CSA Vice PResident , was commenting upon several Constitutional Amendments that were being drafted by a Senate Committee ina document that became known as the "Crittenden Compromise" and the " DC Peace Conference of 1861". This compromise, both od=f which were later dismissed and turned down by Congress, had some key Constitutional Amendments and several points strengthening the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850(And the PEace Conference had some new ideas of the Presidents term length as well as strengthening the MISSOURI COMPROMISE). In Stephens Cornerstone Speech, he asserts what the CSA is based upon. I dont think we can get a higher source from history to back up the thesis of this thread. Since the speech is long (and you can google it as Stephens Cornerstone SPeech), Ive clipped the last several paragraphs of it. Here you can perhaps read what the CSA really had on its mind and what the "code words" of states rights and "property" and "vital commerce" actually mean . ACtually STephens if pretty open about his racist views

OOPs , Ill be right back, seemed I clipped the Seccession proclamation of TExas and was gonna post that , but Stephens served well, especially since we have a SOuthern Governor who is seemingly a slavery denier also.


____________________________________________________________

The SUmmary and Conclusion of Stephens Cornerstone Speech




..."Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.

In the conflict thus far, success has been on our side, complete throughout the length and breadth of the Confederate States. It is upon this, as I have stated, our social fabric is firmly planted; and I cannot permit myself to doubt the ultimate success of a full recognition of this principle throughout the civilized and enlightened world.

As I have stated, the truth of this principle may be slow in development, as all truths are and ever have been, in the various branches of science. It was so with the principles announced by Galileo it was so with Adam Smith and his principles of political economy. It was so with Harvey, and his theory of the circulation of the blood. It is stated that not a single one of the medical profession, living at the time of the announcement of the truths made by him, admitted them. Now, they are universally acknowledged. May we not, therefore, look with confidence to the ultimate universal acknowledgment of the truths upon which our system rests? It is the first government ever instituted upon the principles in strict conformity to nature, and the ordination of Providence, in furnishing the materials of human society. Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature's laws. With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system. The architect, in the construction of buildings, lays the foundation with the proper material-the granite; then comes the brick or the marble. The substratum of our society is made of the material fitted by nature for it, and by experience we know that it is best, not only for the superior, but for the inferior race, that it should be so. It is, indeed, in conformity with the ordinance of the Creator. It is not for us to inquire into the wisdom of His ordinances, or to question them. For His own purposes, He has made one race to differ from another, as He has made "one star to differ from another star in glory." The great objects of humanity are best attained when there is conformity to His laws and decrees, in the formation of governments as well as in all things else. Our confederacy is founded upon principles in strict conformity with these laws. This stone which was rejected by the first builders "is become the chief of the corner" the real "corner-stone" in our new edifice. I have been asked, what of the future? It has been apprehended by some that we would have arrayed against us the civilized world. I care not who or how many they may be against us, when we stand upon the eternal principles of truth, if we are true to ourselves and the principles for which we contend, we are obliged to, and must triumph.

Thousands of people who begin to understand these truths are not yet completely out of the shell; they do not see them in their length and breadth. We hear much of the civilization and Christianization of the barbarous tribes of Africa. In my judgment, those ends will never be attained, but by first teaching them the lesson taught to Adam, that "in the sweat of his brow he should eat his bread," and teaching them to work, and feed, and clothe themselves.

But to pass on: Some have propounded the inquiry whether it is practicable for us to go on with the confederacy without further accessions? Have we the means and ability to maintain nationality among the powers of the earth? On this point I would barely say, that as anxiously as we all have been, and are, for the border States, with institutions similar to ours, to join us, still we are abundantly able to maintain our position, even if they should ultimately make up their minds not to cast their destiny with us. That they ultimately will join us be compelled to do it is my confident belief; but we can get on very well without them, even if they should not.

We have all the essential elements of a high national career. The idea has been given out at the North, and even in the border States, that we are too small and too weak to maintain a separate nationality. This is a great mistake. In extent of territory we embrace five hundred and sixty-four thousand square miles and upward. This is upward of two hundred thousand square miles more than was included within the limits of the original thirteen States. It is an area of country more than double the territory of France or the Austrian empire. France, in round numbers, has but two hundred and twelve thousand square miles. Austria, in round numbers, has two hundred and forty-eight thousand square miles. Ours is greater than both combined. It is greater than all France, Spain, Portugal, and Great Britain, including England, Ireland, and Scotland, together. In population we have upward of five millions, according to the census of 1860; this includes white and black. The entire population, including white and black, of the original thirteen States, was less than four millions in 1790, and still less in 76, when the independence of our fathers was achieved. If they, with a less population, dared maintain their independence against the greatest power on earth, shall we have any apprehension of maintaining ours now?

In point of material wealth and resources, we are greatly in advance of them. The taxable property of the Confederate States cannot be less than twenty-two hundred millions of dollars! This, I think I venture but little in saying, may be considered as five times more than the colonies possessed at the time they achieved their independence. Georgia, alone, possessed last year, according to the report of our comptroller-general, six hundred and seventy-two millions of taxable property. The debts of the seven confederate States sum up in the aggregate less than eighteen millions, while the existing debts of the other of the late United States sum up in the aggregate the enormous amount of one hundred and seventy-four millions of dollars. This is without taking into account the heavy city debts, corporation debts, and railroad debts, which press, and will continue to press, as a heavy incubus upon the resources of those States. These debts, added to others, make a sum total not much under five hundred millions of dollars. With such an area of territory as we have-with such an amount of population-with a climate and soil unsurpassed by any on the face of the earth-with such resources already at our command-with productions which control the commerce of the world-who can entertain any apprehensions as to our ability to succeed, whether others join us or not?

It is true, I believe I state but the common sentiment, when I declare my earnest desire that the border States should join us. The differences of opinion that existed among us anterior to secession, related more to the policy in securing that result by co-operation than from any difference upon the ultimate security we all looked to in common.

These differences of opinion were more in reference to policy than principle, and as Mr. Jefferson said in his inaugural, in 1801, after the heated contest preceding his election, that there might be differences of opinion without differences on principle, and that all, to some extent, had been Federalists and all Republicans; so it may now be said of us, that whatever differences of opinion as to the best policy in having a co-operation with our border sister slave States, if the worst came to the worst, that as we were all co-operationists, we are now all for independence, whether they come or not.

In this connection I take this occasion to state, that I was not without grave and serious apprehensions, that if the worst came to the worst, and cutting loose from the old government should be the only remedy for our safety and security, it would be attended with much more serious ills than it has been as yet. Thus far we have seen none of those incidents which usually attend revolutions. No such material as such convulsions usually throw up has been seen. Wisdom, prudence, and patriotism, have marked every step of our progress thus far. This augurs well for the future, and it is a matter of sincere gratification to me, that I am enabled to make the declaration. Of the men I met in the Congress at Montgomery, I may be pardoned for saying this, an abler, wiser, a more conservative, deliberate, determined, resolute, and patriotic body of men, I never met in my life. Their works speak for them; the provisional government speaks for them; the constitution of the permanent government will be a lasting monument of their worth, merit, and statesmanship.

But to return to the question of the future. What is to be the result of this revolution?

Will every thing, commenced so well, continue as it has begun? In reply to this anxious inquiry, I can only say it all depends upon ourselves. A young man starting out in life on his majority, with health, talent, and ability, under a favoring Providence, may be said to be the architect of his own fortunes. His destinies are in his own hands. He may make for himself a name, of honor or dishonor, according to his own acts. If he plants himself upon truth, integrity, honor and uprightness, with industry, patience and energy, he cannot fail of success. So it is with us. We are a young republic, just entering upon the arena of nations; we will be the architects of our own fortunes. Our destiny, under Providence, is in our own hands. With wisdom, prudence, and statesmanship on the part of our public men, and intelligence, virtue and patriotism on the part of the people, success, to the full measures of our most sanguine hopes, may be looked for. But if unwise counsels prevail if we become divided if schisms arise if dissentions spring up if factions are engendered if party spirit, nourished by unholy personal ambition shall rear its hydra head, I have no good to prophesy for you. Without intelligence, virtue, integrity, and patriotism on the part of the people, no republic or representative government can be durable or stable.

We have intelligence, and virtue, and patriotism. All that is required is to cultivate and perpetuate these. Intelligence will not do without virtue. France was a nation of philosophers. These philosophers become Jacobins. They lacked that virtue, that devotion to moral principle, and that patriotism which is essential to good government Organized upon principles of perfect justice and right-seeking amity and friendship with all other powers-I see no obstacle in the way of our upward and onward progress. Our growth, by accessions from other States, will depend greatly upon whether we present to the world, as I trust we shall, a better government than that to which neighboring States belong. If we do this, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Arkansas cannot hesitate long; neither can Virginia, Kentucky, and Missouri. They will necessarily gravitate to us by an imperious law. We made ample provision in our constitution for the admission of other States; it is more guarded, and wisely so, I think, than the old constitution on the same subject, but not too guarded to receive them as fast as it may be proper. Looking to the distant future, and, perhaps, not very far distant either, it is not beyond the range of possibility, and even probability, that all the great States of the north-west will gravitate this way, as well as Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, etc. Should they do so, our doors are wide enough to receive them, but not until they are ready to assimilate with us in principle.

The process of disintegration in the old Union may be expected to go on with almost absolute certainty if we pursue the right course. We are now the nucleus of a growing power which, if we are true to ourselves, our destiny, and high mission, will become the controlling power on this continent. To what extent accessions will go on in the process of time, or where it will end, the future will determine. So far as it concerns States of the old Union, this process will be upon no such principles of reconstruction as now spoken of, but upon reorganization and new assimilation. Such are some of the glimpses of the future as I catch them.

But at first we must necessarily meet with the inconveniences and difficulties and embarrassments incident to all changes of government. These will be felt in our postal affairs and changes in the channel of trade. These inconveniences, it is to be hoped, will be but temporary, and must be borne with patience and forbearance.

As to whether we shall have war with our late confederates, or whether all matters of differences between us shall be amicably settled, I can only say that the prospect for a peaceful adjustment is better, so far as I am informed, than it has been. The prospect of war is, at least, not so threatening as it has been. The idea of coercion, shadowed forth in President Lincoln's inaugural, seems not to be followed up thus far so vigorously as was expected. Fort Sumter, it is believed, will soon be evacuated. What course will be pursued toward Fort Pickens, and the other forts on the gulf, is not so well understood. It is to be greatly desired that all of them should be surrendered. Our object is peace, not only with the North, but with the world. All matters relating to the public property, public liabilities of the Union when we were members of it, we are ready and willing to adjust and settle upon the principles of right, equity, and good faith. War can be of no more benefit to the North than to us. Whether the intention of evacuating Fort Sumter is to be received as an evidence of a desire for a peaceful solution of our difficulties with the United States, or the result of necessity, I will not undertake to say. I would feign hope the former. Rumors are afloat, however, that it is the result of necessity. All I can say to you, therefore, on that point is, keep your armor bright and your powder dry.

The surest way to secure peace, is to show your ability to maintain your rights. The principles and position of the present administration of the United States the republican party present some puzzling questions. While it is a fixed principle with them never to allow the increase of a foot of slave territory, they seem to be equally determined not to part with an inch "of the accursed soil." Notwithstanding their clamor against the institution, they seemed to be equally opposed to getting more, or letting go what they have got. They were ready to fight on the accession of Texas, and are equally ready to fight now on her secession. Why is this? How can this strange paradox be accounted for? There seems to be but one rational solution and that is, notwithstanding their professions of humanity, they are disinclined to give up the benefits they derive from slave labor. Their philanthropy yields to their interest. The idea of enforcing the laws, has but one object, and that is a collection of the taxes, raised by slave labor to swell the fund necessary to meet their heavy appropriations. The spoils is what they are after though they come from the labor of the slave

That as the admission of States by Congress under the constitution was an act of legislation, and in the nature of a contract or compact between the States admitted and the others admitting, why should not this contract or compact be regarded as of like character with all other civil contracts liable to be rescinded by mutual agreement of both parties? The seceding States have rescinded it on their part, they have resumed their sovereignty. Why cannot the whole question be settled, if the north desire peace, simply by the Congress, in both branches, with the concurrence of the President, giving their consent to the separation, and a recognition of our independence?


Source: Henry Cleveland, Alexander H. Stephens, in Public and Private: With Letters and Speeches, Before, During, and Since the War (Philadelphia, 1886), pp. 717-729.


URL: http://www.TeachingAmericanHistory.org/library/index.asp?documentprint=76




]]

farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 07:30 pm
@farmerman,
COurse, what does the Dead Vice President of the Confederacy know as compared to the revisionist crap being spewed by Va's governor and a teeny small minority of other ignoramii.
Its interesting that, every day, as these newWeb sites for the commemoration of the Civil War Sesqui- centennial open up (Ill not cheapen it by calling it a "Celebration), we have the opportunity to really learn things to great depths. I was 11 years old when the Centennial was observed and that was more a celebration than commemoration. Lotsa parties and , any area that even had a small skirmish had some kind of recreation of the battle.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 07:33 pm
@farmerman,
Is your argument (based on a racist in bold type) to consist of "there were racists therefore the war was fought to free slaves "? Isnt that rather superficial ? You might as well say there were slaves at the beginning and less slaves at the end therefore it was about freeing them .
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 08:15 pm
@Ionus,
You really need to present your points with greater clarity. I am doing nothing other than providing evidence about the major issue behind the US Civil War. The evidence has been fairly complete , weighty, and Im barely scratching the surface.
So far youve presented nothing other than these silly bumper stickers of dumb questions or cryptic statements , no doubt to continue your drift towards acceptance of the inevitable, unnoticed.

You are basically unarmed in this entire discussion. Sad, but true. Youve been the loudest and rudest of us all and yet you continue insulting away at anybody who provides evidence that disagrees with your US Civil War worldview.

Pisses me off that guys like PAnzade, whod been a great contributer to these posts, had been driven off by your boorish behavior and your racist churlishness.

My only way of dealing with you is to provide others with FACTS , facts that support the threads thesis, and show you off as the history denier that you are. Ive got plenty of sites I havent even pulled anything from. Ive only presented the seccession proclamations from two states, ( I still have Eleven more states that either fully secceded or the two that had both Union and Confederate governments )

Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 09:20 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
I am doing nothing other than providing evidence about the major issue behind the US Civil War.
THE major issue ? If you mean there were several major causes of the war, slavery being ranked third behind money and power as a cause, then I can agree it was a major issue but I doubt it was THE major issue .

Quote:
The evidence has been fairly complete , weighty, and Im barely scratching the surface.
Be serious . You have provided quotes with the word slavery in them . Where is your ability to think ?

Quote:
Youve been the loudest and rudest of us all


assclown.....you're just ******* stupid - snood
ANUS's own bleatings - famerman
Are you ******* crazy - aiden
Io is an idiot - mysteryman

Thats just a quick sample. Do you want me to cry for you ?


Quote:
Ive got plenty of sites I havent even pulled anything from.
But will you read them and understand or just copy and paste and hope the deeper meaning will remain elusive for everyone like it is for you ?

Why have you never explained WHY the North wanted to free the slaves and WHY the South had to have slaves ? Do you understand the question ? It is one any historian would ask.....

Quote:
PAnzade, whod been a great contributer to these posts, had been driven off by your boorish behavior
Panzade confused my attack on his quoted author for an attack on him . I explained and apologised for his error . If you think anything else can be done, you do it .

Quote:
your racist churlishness.
How many times did you bring my nationality into it ? You only pretend to be non-racist and you do a lousy job at that .
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2011 09:31 pm
Do Northerners stick out their chest and strut around bragging..."we fought a war to free the slaves...what jolly good fellows are we..."

It appears white is the new black....you dont need niggers to feel superior to, you have Southern white trash....

How many of you clowns seriously think you fought your bloodiest war ever because you were such loving people...but the people in the South werent loving, of course....

Where are the other wars to free people ? Perhaps the Kuwait/1st Gulf War was to free the Kuwaitis but not the Iraqis....why didnt you fight to free Tibet ? Was WWII about freeing the Jews ?

If freedom is so precious to Northerners but not Southerners, why have you supported every tin pot dictator torturing his people who you can open an embassy with ?

If you havent found the money and power causing a war it is because you lack intelligence.....keep looking .
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 03:49 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
You have provided quotes with the word slavery in them . Where is your ability to think ?

when I present "quotes with "slavery" in them", I hve always presented the context of the historical document from which the quotes were extracted. I, unlike you have relie upon primary documentation rather than denying their existence and just trying to shout opinions.
JUST for your personal ewdifcation, lemme again present a teeny clip from CSA , Vice President's "Cornertone SPeech" in which he lays out the philosophical and legal basis of the Confederacy.


AS far as chasing away the intelligent people from this thread, you are really insane you know it? Youve been attacking and initiating any nam,e calling. SOme people just said "**** it, I dont need to talk to this idiaot" . Others , includingme, have been reasonable un til you started the insults . SO please, unless youre suffering from demenetia, you need to understand that you get only as good as you serve. Im not gonna take shot from a clown like you just because youve got some whacky sense of history but still cant come up with SNY evidence to support your position. If youve noticed, the only thing youve posted has been insults and flaky opinions. If you cant find volumes where the real historians support you (maybe like Gov Macdonnel's new tourist campaign for Virginis=
Quote:
..."Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth

If you didnt quite get it the last time, maybe you will better understand the "Cornerstone of the Confederacy"
THIS IS WHAT I DO< I JUST TRY TO HELP
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 03:58 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
when I present "quotes with "slavery" in them", I hve always presented the context of the historical document from which the quotes were extracted.
And.......

Quote:
I, unlike you have relie upon primary documentation rather than denying their existence and just trying to shout opinions.
I'll go one further than that...you have presented no opinion at all . You either hope the mere mention of the word slavery will win your case or you are ignorant as to exactly what it does mean . Perhaps you would be so kind as to poi nt out where I denied the existence of primary source documents ? We wouldn't want people to think you are a low bred liar, now would we ?

Quote:
JUST for your personal ewdifcation, lemme again present a teeny clip from CSA , Vice President's "Cornertone SPeech" in which he lays out the philosophical and legal basis of the Confederacy.
Just when I thought I had worked out your code, I am in error....I thought you were going to attach something .....

Edit...aha ! I WAS right ....you added it as an edit....
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:00 am
@farmerman,
So if I understand you correctly, if a politician says it, it must be true ? Seriously ??
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:02 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
THIS IS WHAT I DO< I JUST TRY TO HELP
Aww ....you are so sweet...I want to have your babies.....
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:05 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
I'll go one further than that...you have presented no opinion at all
I pride myself in understanding the value of direct EVIDENCE v opinion. Opinion doesnt coun t for **** unless its backed up with evidence. Wheres yours??


Quote:
you added it as an edit
YEH? you have a problem with me clipping from my own posts? Whats on your alleged mind now? Does that make me a xenophobe racist?

Admit it, your losing big time .
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:10 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Opinion doesnt coun t for **** unless its backed up with evidence. Wheres yours??
Do you seriously think you can claim the Civil War was fought to free the salves, present documents that mention the word slavery and your work is done ? I thought you claimed to be an historian ? Oh, and I am using the same documents you presented.....I just want people to think and not believe me like you insist they do for your side .
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:13 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
So if I understand you correctly, if a politician says it, it must be true ? Seriously ??
ARE you really this dumb? If your "Quotes with slavery in them" was a dud,go to the source and critcie the veracity of the authors Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

You are a real piece of work. Ive been around Civil War hobbyists who correct everything thats said because they have evidence to present that shows that they are correct. NEVER, till your posts herein, have I come up against someone who loves to argue his position from a place of complete defiant ignorance. You are unique to me.

Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2011 04:16 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
you have a problem with me clipping from my own posts?
Not at all...didnt you read where I said I was in error about being wrong ?

Quote:
Does that make me a xenophobe racist?
No . Your constant mentioning of my nationality does that...and strongly suggests you have a chip on your shoulder .

Quote:
I pride myself in understanding the value of direct EVIDENCE v opinion.
Yes but you also pride yourself on your drinking problem...you get nastier as the night wears on....

So your direct evidence consists of documents that have the word slavery in them and politicians saying so....of course they have no ulterior motive....no money for the war, no backing from the rich slave owners, no appeal for support from the racists in the North, nothing but truth and honesty for these politicians . I am not surprised you cant interpret these documents .
 

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