Is the Confederate Flag a symbol of racism?

@DrewDad,

He has more fun whining than he would have knowing . . . or, so he assumes.

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@hawkeye10,

No, the voir dire is not being referred to here. Rather, what is being discussed is the pool of voters.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Apples and oranges.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

figuring out of people are qualified for jury duty is the whole point of the jury selection process.

In a perfect world, where the goal of both parties is justice, you would be correct.

We live in the real world, though, with an adversarial court system where each side is trying to win. So the whole point of the jury selection process is for each side to pick the jury members that they think will side with you, or at least prevent jury members that will side with the other party.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
U are aware of what the predominantly black jury did in the OJ murder trial, right ?

Yes. They acquitted a likely (IMO) murderer when a highly-competent defense team undertook his defense. The forensics were sloppy, evidentiary procedures were sloppy, and the prosecutor was dumb enough to let Simpson fumble around with actual evidence.

Basically, the L.A. justice system was beaten by a really, really good defense team.

How does this tell us anything about race?

Both b4 and during that (very long) trial,
surveys were repeatedly taken, nationwide,
that CONSISTENTLY broke down along racial lines for acquittal or conviction.

David

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@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

Apples and oranges.

U fake not understanding, only PRETENDING to be that dum, because u r unwilling to face the results
and to deal with them honestly and forthrightly.

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

Which is why not picking a particular person for a jury based on any number of characteristics is a matter of strategy, not bigotry.

The adversarial system has it's drawbacks, but its far more realistic than pursuing a fantasy that totally objective justice is obtainable in a courtroom.

It has been proven time and time again that individuals bring personal biases to decision making. Few, if any of us, are able to completely disregard these biases in a jury box.

Lawyers on both sides don't have an unlimited number of challenges. They can't simply say NO, until they get the precise jury they want. If they could, there would never be agreement and no trial would move forward.

Some people just want to endlessly perpetuate the notion that racism is powerful force in America. It suits their world view and their politics. It provides them with a sanctimonious club to wield.

America has a duly elected black man as president. How powerful can racism still be?

One of, if not the, most popular and respected women in America is black. How powerful can racism be?

Off-handed bigoted comments, let alone racist rants are a public death sentence in America. How powerful can racism be?

Does racism exist in America? Of course it does, but so does murder, robbery, rape and tax cheating. So does anti-Semitisim, sexism, and the abuse of animals. So does stupidity, sloth, and depravity.

To paraphrase an old SNL bit, "Racism has been berry berry good for the Left."

It doesn't want to lose it now or ever.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

That post was beyond the pale.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

I told you that you were talking about two different things and you came back with something that makes even less sense. I'm pretending to be dumb???!!! I am unwilling to be honest??!!

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@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

That post was beyond the pale.

It was well within the pale.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Which is why not picking a particular person for a jury based on any number of characteristics is a matter of strategy, not bigotry.

But if your "strategy" is blocking people just because of their race, then it's racism, no matter what your goal is.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The adversarial system has it's drawbacks, but its far more realistic than pursuing a fantasy that totally objective justice is obtainable in a courtroom.

Good thing I'm not proposing that, then. Go argue with Hawkeye.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Some people just want to endlessly perpetuate the notion that racism is powerful force in America. It suits their world view and their politics. It provides them with a sanctimonious club to wield.

And for some people, it suits their world view and politics to ignore racism. And how would you describe that high horse you're on, other than sanctimonious?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

America has a duly elected black man as president. How powerful can racism still be?

Dunno. Wanna take a look at who elected that black man? Probably wasn't white prosecutors....

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Does racism exist in America? Of course it does, but so does murder, robbery, rape and tax cheating. So does anti-Semitisim, sexism, and the abuse of animals. So does stupidity, sloth, and depravity.

Seems like you're saying that since they're all here, we should just live with them all instead of trying to get rid of all of these nasty things. Finn dAbuzz's approach to crime: "it happens, get over it".

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

To paraphrase an old SNL bit, "Racism has been berry berry good for the Left."

So... you're going to use an ethnic stereotype in an effort to combat charges of racism? Thank you, Hinn.

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Which is why not picking a particular person for a jury based on any number of characteristics is a matter of strategy, not bigotry.

But if your "strategy" is blocking people just because of their race, then it's racism, no matter what your goal is.

"Racism" isn't the recognition of someone's race as a characteristic and a subsequent action connected thereto. If it was, Affirmative Action would be racism, and it's not.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
The adversarial system has it's drawbacks, but its far more realistic than pursuing a fantasy that totally objective justice is obtainable in a courtroom.

Good thing I'm not proposing that, then. Go argue with Hawkeye.

Who said you were proposing it. Gosh but you're thin skinned.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Some people just want to endlessly perpetuate the notion that racism is powerful force in America. It suits their world view and their politics. It provides them with a sanctimonious club to wield.

And for some people, it suits their world view and politics to ignore racism. And how would you describe that high horse you're on, other than sanctimonious?

I would describe it as accurate. You're entitled to describe it anyway you see fit.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
America has a duly elected black man as president. How powerful can racism still be?

Dunno. Wanna take a look at who elected that black man? Probably wasn't white prosecutors....

And you know this how?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Does racism exist in America? Of course it does, but so does murder, robbery, rape and tax cheating. So does anti-Semitisim, sexism, and the abuse of animals. So does stupidity, sloth, and depravity.

Seems like you're saying that since they're all here, we should just live with them all instead of trying to get rid of all of these nasty things. Finn dAbuzz's approach to crime: "it happens, get over it".

I can see how you might reach that conclusion, but that's not my point. None of these other "sins" are used with the same degree of politicization as the charge of racism.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
To paraphrase an old SNL bit, "Racism has been berry berry good for the Left."

So... you're going to use an ethnic stereotype in an effort to combat charges of racism? Thank you, Hinn.

If you consider the SNL skit the epitomy of ethnic stereotyping, than yes.

BTW - You're welcome.

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If it was, Affirmative Action would be racism, and it's not.

are you sure, cause i have my doubts

1 Reply

@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
If it was, Affirmative Action would be racism, and it's not.

are you sure, cause i have my doubts

quote="djjd62"]

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If it was, Affirmative Action would be racism, and it's not.

are you sure, cause i have my doubts
[/quote]

I suppose it depends on your definition of the term.

I subscribe to the following:

Quote:

a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Even if one accepts the far more imprecise one below, I think there needs to be an implicit or explicit intent to harm or deprive a person of the race which leads to prejudice or discrimination.

Quote:

racial prejudice or discrimination

In this sense, while Affirmative Action may not be good policy and may, arguably, cause more harm then it cures, I think it would be quite a stretch to assert that it was ever intended to harm or deprive members of any race.

Clearly, there are instances when a trial attorney rejects a potential juror, primarily on the basis of his or her race, and in such cases racial discrimination is at play, but it just as clear that the purpose of the discrimination is not to harm or deprive the person rejected.

Similarly picking the black guy to play on your pick-up basketball team, from a pool of people whose skills you've never seen demonstrated would probably constitute prejudice based on race, but, again, it would be a stretch to argue that the prejudice was intended to harm or deprive the guy you picked.

The term racism has a highly negative connotation and rightly so. I think it’s disingenuous at best though for people (and we see numerous examples of them in this forum) who understand and intend the application of a charge of racism, to use a wide open definition of the term which does not contemplate negative intent.

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@OmSigDAVID,

It was typical of your posts: a non sequitur. You can not follow an argument. You can not debate.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

A lot of people in this country ignored racism for years. There is a famous statement that when MLK emerged as a leader, people said it was too soon and considered themselves good and honest people.

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I'm told POM has a confederate flag hanging over her bed.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Impossible! I am a liberal. However, as an AMerican right winger, you are the likely candidate for such home decor. You do seem to have the right and left confused. Remember, the righties are racists. The initial Rs go together.

2 Replies

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

It was typical of your posts: a non sequitur.
You can not follow an argument. You can not debate.

Is the Confederate Flag a symbol of racism?

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