49
   

Is the Confederate Flag a symbol of racism?

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 02:27 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:
Is the Confederate Flag a symbol of racism?




Nope.
plainoldme
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 10:41 pm
@maporsche,
Let me clue thee in. I put you on ignore several weeks ago when you savaged a third party in another thread. I do not remember who it was other than the person insulted by a you was a woman. Furthermore, her post that riled you so wasn't addressed to you. You intervened and tore into this woman who may not have known that you were a participant in the thread.

That is why we disagree.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 02:08 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Let me clue thee in. I put you on ignore several weeks ago when you savaged a third party in another thread. I do not remember who it was other than the person insulted by a you was a woman. Furthermore, her post that riled you so wasn't addressed to you. You intervened and tore into this woman who may not have known that you were a participant in the thread.

That is why we disagree.
O, yeah? If u really put him on Ignore, as u claim,
then how come u r interacting with him ???





David
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 05:32 am
@plainoldme,
Care to provide any further details? I am unaware of the post you are speaking of. This doesn't sound like me though. You may have me confused with someone else.

Also, "clue thee in" seems to suggest that I am ignorant in something that I should understand. How could I possibly have known you put me on ignore, especially since I'm sure we've exchanged posts in the last several weeks.
plainoldme
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 08:43 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Are you that stupid?
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 08:47 am
@maporsche,
First of all, it was so long ago that I do not remember it.

Second, "let me clue thee in" means nothing of the sort. It is a phrase I picked up several years ago. I was browsing in an artisans' group shop, looking at handmade greeting cards. One card read, "How Do I Love THee," on the outside and was answered with, "Let Me Clue Thee In" inside. I have told people let me clue thee in in person . . . when the matter had nothing to do with love or my perception of their intelligence . . . ever since. People like the phrase as much as I do.

Third, no we have not exchanged words but I do sometimes read the posts of those I have on ignore.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 09:46 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Are you that stupid?
The question addresses your credibility. U assert inconsistent allegations.
plainoldme
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 10:29 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I will add credibility and inconsistent to the growing list of words that you can not correctly define. Please, do not publish the definition.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 10:30 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Third, no we have not exchanged words but I do sometimes read the posts of those I have on ignore.


So, am I still on ignore? I'd hate to waste any more time responding to your posts than I already have.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 10:35 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Linkat wrote:
Is the Confederate Flag a symbol of racism?




Nope.


http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/Flags/confederate-flag-picture.jpg

The flag on the left is the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, and the flag on the right is the Confederate National Flag.
The Confederate National Flag is an early one, as it only has 7 stars. Later versions of the flag had as many as 13 stars, as more states seceded.

Neither are a symbol of racism.
OmSigDAVID
 
  5  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 11:48 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
I will add credibility and inconsistent to the growing list of words that you can not correctly define.
Please, do not publish the definition.
Its all right, Plain.
I 'm not mad at u and I 'm not ostracizing u on Ignore (at the moment),
but I do not consider u to be possessed of a competent intellect.
I cannot take u seriously; I had held out hope that I coud. I give up.

I cannot convince u that it gets dark at night
nor that Obama was elected to anything; hopeless.

I may still occasionally converse with u,
but I expect very little or nothing in return. Its a little sad. O, well No harm done
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2010 09:18 pm
More info on the state of racism in America:

Striking potential jurors solely on the basis of their race is unlawful, yet somehow, almost 135 years after passage of the Civil Rights Act, people of color routinely find themselves excluded from jury service because of their race. This is especially true in southern states and in serious criminal trials and death penalty cases.

The information comes as a result of a comprehensive study conducted by the Equal Justice Initiative, and the results are as depressing as they are disturbing. For two years EJI conducted research in eight southern states (Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, and Tennessee), including interviewing over 100 African-American citizens who had been excluded from jury service based on race. EJI also reviewed volumes of court records and documents and found evidence of wide-spread, persistent racial discrimination in jury selection. According to Bryan Stevenson, EJI's Executive Director, despite efforts by courts to rectify the situation, there remains a substantial indifference to racial bias in the justice system, to the detriment of the entire system. "The underrepresentation and exclusion of people of color from juries has seriously undermined the credibility and reliability of the criminal justice system, and there is an urgent need to end this practice."

It's a problem the Supreme Court tried to tackle in the late 1980's in Batson v. Kentucky, but, as Stevenson points out, just wont go away. Part of the problem is that prosecutors have become less obvious in their racial bias, striking African Americans because they appeared to have "low intelligence", wore eyeglasses, walked a certain way, or dyed their hair. When these juror strikes were challenged by defense counsel the court stamped them as "race-neutral". The fact that there is a lack of consistency among states and counties in the enforcement of anti-discrimination laws that protect racial minorities from illegal jury exclusion only exacerbates this more nuanced and subtle form of bias.

And the numbers don't lie. In Houston County, Alabama, for example, 8 out of 10 African Americans qualified for jury service have been struck by prosecutors from death penalty cases. In Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, EJI found no effective African American representation on the jury in 80 percent of criminal trials. Given that African Americans are significantly over-represented as defendants in criminal trials, the fact that prosecutors are systematically doing all they can to keep them off of juries should make us all suspicious of conviction rates.

As a result of the study EJI came up with some specific and detailed recommendations that they believe would ensure full representation of people of color on juries throughout the United States within five years. Among the recommendations that would get the most push back include subjecting prosecutors to fines, penalties, and suspensions if they continue to repeatedly exclude people of color from juries. EJI recommends establishing community groups to engage in court monitoring that would help hold their district attorney accountable, including routine review of the use of peremptory strikes.

What the EJI report underscores most of all is that our criminal justice system remains racially entrenched, and because of that, the legitimacy of the hard, honest work of hundreds of thousands of people gets called into question. Our criminal justice system has, at its core, the premise that the rights of the individual should be paramount to the power of the state--it is what informs our Constitution and what informs the statutes supporting that system. But until these biases are removed, the entire system remains weakened, which ultimately serves no one well
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2010 09:35 pm
@plainoldme,
Quote:
The underrepresentation and exclusion of people of color from juries has seriously undermined the credibility and reliability of the criminal justice system, and there is an urgent need to end this practice."
a good example how how liberals shoot for equal results and not equal rights. Maybe blacks don't register to vote as often as other races, perhaps they show some deficiency of education that makes them ill suited for the task of being an a jury, maybe they don't want to be on juries and are not willing to do their duty in spite of their desires so they purposely answer questions in a way to get themselves thrown out. Until you know why blacks dont end up on juries in the same percentage as their representation in the general population, and untill you can show what ever that reason is is not a valid reason for blacks not being on juries, don't bother me with your whine...
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2010 09:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
And the numbers don't lie. In Houston County, Alabama, for example, 8 out of 10 African Americans qualified for jury service have been struck by prosecutors from death penalty cases.

You did read the part where it says "qualified for jury service", right?

Your apologia fails. Fails so, so hard.

hawkeye10 wrote:
Until you know why blacks dont end up on juries in the same percentage as their representation in the general population

Um... racism? That's rather the point of the study.

Why don't you go look up the study, and, you know, actually read it, and, you know, have some facts to back up your assumption that it is somehow flawed. Until then, you are the one with the knee-jerk whine.
hawkeye10
 
  4  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2010 10:03 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
You did read the part where it says "qualified for jury service", right?

Your apologia fails. Fails so, so hard.

figuring out of people are qualified for jury duty is the whole point of the jury selection process. Now if this author is saying the 8 out of 10 blacks that both the prosecution and the defense agree are suited for the jury are thrown out, then I would take some notice. However, a rest assured that what was meant is that 8 out of 10 who showed up for jury duty were not used for jury duty. Presumably this is because they either where not needed or where not qualified. If you think that the reason is instead bias then it is up to you to prove it. I can think of a lot of reasons why underclass blacks should not be on a jury, knowing that a sizable portion of the black population are made up of massively undereducated underclass who have little experience of anything except their slum life I would be alarmed if blacks showed up on juries in proportion to their general population numbers.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2010 10:20 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Quote:
And the numbers don't lie. In Houston County, Alabama, for example, 8 out of 10 African Americans qualified for jury service have been struck by prosecutors from death penalty cases.

You did read the part where it says "qualified for jury service", right?

Your apologia fails. Fails so, so hard.

hawkeye10 wrote:
Until you know why blacks dont end up on juries in the same percentage as their representation in the general population

Um... racism? That's rather the point of the study.

Why don't you go look up the study, and, you know, actually read it, and, you know, have some facts to back up your assumption that it is somehow flawed. Until then, you are the one with the knee-jerk whine.
U are aware of what the predominantly black jury did in the OJ murder trial, right ?
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 06:57 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Now if this author is saying the 8 out of 10 blacks that both the prosecution and the defense agree are suited for the jury are thrown out, then I would take some notice. However, a rest assured that what was meant is that 8 out of 10 who showed up for jury duty were not used for jury duty. Presumably this is because they either where not needed or where not qualified.

1. Thank you for putting words in the mouths of the researchers. Presumably if that is what they had meant, then they would have said that. You have a reading comprehension problem in that you insert what you want people to have said instead of reading their actual words.
2. Apparently, you don't understand how juries are selected. This makes your apologia fail even harder.
3. Try reading the part about 8 of 10 were struck by prosecutors again. These 8 of 10 do not include people who showed up, but the jury was selected before their number came up, nor do they include people that the defense and prosecution agreed to cut.


hawkeye10 wrote:
If you think that the reason is instead bias then it is up to you to prove it. I can think of a lot of reasons why underclass blacks should not be on a jury, knowing that a sizable portion of the black population are made up of massively undereducated underclass who have little experience of anything except their slum life I would be alarmed if blacks showed up on juries in proportion to their general population numbers.

Thank you for demonstrating your racial bias.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 07:04 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
U are aware of what the predominantly black jury did in the OJ murder trial, right ?

Yes. They acquitted a likely (IMO) murderer when a highly-competent defense team undertook his defense. The forensics were sloppy, evidentiary procedures were sloppy, and the prosecutor was dumb enough to let Simpson fumble around with actual evidence.

Basically, the L.A. justice system was beaten by a really, really good defense team.

How does this tell us anything about race?
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 09:30 am
@H2O MAN,
Well, you've made your opinion on this matter abundantly clear. Others disagree with you and they have made their opinions clear.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 09:32 am
@hawkeye10,
Blaming the victim once again! What a rightie you are. Please do not tell me you're a socialist.

Note the states where this discrimination occurs.

Please remove your blinkers.
0 Replies
 
 

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