49
   

Is the Confederate Flag a symbol of racism?

 
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 03:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Wrong, once any symbol is classed as hate speech business no longer have to deal with them, which is were we are almost.


I don't believe this is true. Can you provide a link?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 04:04 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
someone who flies a Confederate flag.


are they a protected group of some sort?
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 04:08 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
“Normally, (refusal of service) would only be warranted where the customer’s presence would somehow be distracting to the wellbeing, to the safety, to the welfare of the other people in the business and the business itself. They can’t arbitrarily refuse service to some because they don’t like the way that they look,” Meynard said.

http://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/news/when-is-refusing-service-legal-and-when-is-it-discrimination/article_305de452-a55b-11e3-8245-001a4bcf887a.html

If a certain flag is hate speech that caused a 21 yo to kill 9 people then surely it is a threat to my businesses health, as well as my customers. Not the law and not anyone else us going to force me to serve you if you show up with a confederate flag t-shirt.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 04:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
BTW the Twin Peaks Breastraunt in Waco Texas was closed down permanently because they did serve two biker groups who ended up in a shootout....showing up in their vests was enough to deny service, and almost everyone agrees that they should have.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 04:39 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
I agree with you completely. The offensiveness of the confederate fag is just as offensive as the Nazi swastika. The confederate flag is and will always be associated with the defense of slavery. The confederate flag is and will always be associated with white supremacy groups such as the Klu Klux Klan and all of the terror they instilled in black people. The symbolism of a cross burning is clearly understood. The symbolism of white robes with white hoods is clearly understood. There really is no real difference from the Nazi swastika which will always be associated with Hitler and Nazism.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 06:26 pm
Quote:
Where does the public stand on this issue? Overall, Americans are divided on whether it's all right or not for Southern states to fly the flag -- 46% approve, while 44% want the practice stopped. This represents a slight erosion in support for the flag being flown compared to eight years ago. In 1992, 55% approved, while 40% disapproved.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/2926/americans-divided-southern-states-flying-confederate-flag.aspx

So the degrade of wanting to afford southerners the right to fly their flags of the defeated splinter states in the civil war has been active for some time. Me: I want people to keep flying what ever flag they want. I want people to keep saying what ever is on their minds. I like having ways to know what other people are about, and I like having my own thoughts and saying what I want to say. I believe that freedom is good.

This practice of trying to silence unpopular minorities and minority views will not be good for us, of that much I am sure.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 06:54 pm
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/06/25/how_polarization_weakened_confederate_flag_support_127116.html

Quote:
So why now?


Quote:
Because Democrats no longer see any electoral payoff in talking to guys with Confederate flags in the back of their pickup trucks, they no longer have any incentive to make even weak gestures toward keeping the flag around. Progressives are freed from their need to keep up their awkward dance with rural Southerners for the sake of maintaining some degree of power in the South (a dance that dates back at least to FDR’s reluctance to endorse anti-lynching laws). Polarization has forced them – and freed them – to explore new paths to power.

At the same time, it’s important to realize that most prominent Southern Republican politicians have roots in either the suburban or old establishment Democrat wings of the party. I doubt if Nikki Haley or Bobby Jindal grew up with much affection for the Confederate flag. The same goes for Mitch McConnell – who entered politics in Jefferson County (Louisville), an old Union town whose Republicanism was strong enough that it almost voted for Herbert Hoover in 1932.

This isn’t true across the board – Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal, who initially defended the flag, grew up in a rural small town in his state – but for the most part, I don’t think most Republicans in leadership positions ever had much use for the Confederate flag beyond political calculations. With rural whites now largely polarized into the Republican column, Southern Republicans no longer have to go hard after their votes. If anything, they need to watch their flanks in the suburbs and in the business wing of the party, and so it is now more natural for them to move against the flag.

Polarization has, generally speaking, made lawmaking more difficult on the national level. But this, at least, is one instance where it has probably greased the skids.

0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 08:34 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Quote:
maxdancona wrote: someone who flies a Confederate flag.
are they a protected group of some sort?

All groups are protected . It is called your rights .
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 08:36 pm
@Ionus,
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 10:45 pm
Part of the reason there has been an erosion of support for the Confederate flag is the passage of time, another is the migration into the South of people whos families either were not here at the time or were Yankees.
FBM
 
  3  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2015 10:54 pm
I grew up surrounded by both racism and the Confederate flag. Somehow, I was a young teen before I connected the two. I'd always thought the flag was just a heritage/cultural identity thing, and that it was just a coincidence that it was in so many KKK images. Once I started noticing how it was connected to racism, I never wore or flew another one. Even in my earliest memories, I was never able to get behind racism, no matter how much I was indoctrinated/urged to.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 08:42 am
@ehBeth,
Not deliberately, no . Dont you think though it is very important not to take away rights just because of fashion ? That standard was very popular during the civil war and now it isnt . Shouldnt we ban the Soviet Union flag, or the Nazi flag, or the turkish flag which is hated by Armenians and Kurds ? What about the USA flag in Vietnam and the My Lai masacre ? What if Vietnam banned the USA flag ?
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 09:34 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Dont you think though it is very important not to take away rights just because of fashion ?

There has been no move by any government in the US, local, state or national, to "ban" any symbol. You are welcome to stitch together a flag and fly it as a banner representing your values anytime you want.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 09:48 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Where does the public stand on this issue? Overall, Americans are divided on whether it's all right or not for Southern states to fly the flag -- 46% approve, while 44% want the practice stopped. This represents a slight erosion in support for the flag being flown compared to eight years ago. In 1992, 55% approved, while 40% disapproved.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/2926/americans-divided-southern-states-flying-confederate-flag.aspx

So the degrade of wanting to afford southerners the right to fly their flags of the defeated splinter states in the civil war has been active for some time. Me: I want people to keep flying what ever flag they want. I want people to keep saying what ever is on their minds. I like having ways to know what other people are about, and I like having my own thoughts and saying what I want to say. I believe that freedom is good.

This practice of trying to silence unpopular minorities and minority views will not be good for us, of that much I am sure.


So, Hawk...are you trying to silence the practice of trying to silence unpopular minorities and unpopular minority views?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 09:52 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Part of the reason there has been an erosion of support for the Confederate flag is the passage of time, another is the migration into the South of people whos families either were not here at the time or were Yankees.

As a dyed in the wool Southerner who has lived all over Dixie, I disagree. The battle flag was not a southern symbol in 1900. It became on in the 20's and 30's as a defiant response to efforts to shut down Jim Crow. The reason there has been an erosion of support for the Confederate flag is more and more rejection of traditional southern racism. We finally got rid of the last segregated proms a couple of years ago. We are getting there (slowly) and the flagging flag support is part of that.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 09:55 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

This practice of trying to silence unpopular minorities and minority views will not be good for us, of that much I am sure.

The entire history of the human race has been that of majorities silencing minorities, you know like burning crosses on uppity blacks' lawns. No one is saying you can't fly your battle flag, but in the spirit of meeting free speech with more free speech, I can say I find it racist.
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:26 am
@engineer,
Quote:
The entire history of the human race has been that of majorities silencing minorities, you know like burning crosses on uppity blacks' lawns


SO you agree with me. Super.

Quote:
No one is saying you can't fly your battle flag,

Markets that ban the sale of the flag do. National Park Services that tell Concessionaires at civil war battle fields that they can not sell Confederate flags do. Cities that fire cops because they have a pic online of themselves in confederate underwear do

Quote:
but in the spirit of meeting free speech with more free speech, I can say I find it racist.

I dont see the flag as a racist symbol, to each his own, but if I did I would appreciate the racists flying a racist flag so that I can easily pick them out. That kind of information about where people stand is useful.


I saw an op ed the other day talking about how the line should be drawn at the government should not fly the flag in places of honor but citizens should fly it if they want to, because they have the right which we dont want to mess with if we want to keep one of the best things about America. But it was never going to happen, and it is not happening. Once the bullies gain enough power to stomp on the people they dont like they normally do.

We are not better than our ancestors, we have just changed who we hate and abuse.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:44 am
I am a born southerner. I do not support racist symbols. The Confederate battle flag has become one of the worst and I long for the day it appears in just history books.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 11:04 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I do not support racist symbols.
It is easy to be offending by seeing and hearing things you dont like, it is easy to be offended by proof that other people dont measure up to your standards, but you best get over it. Trying to force the masses to march in lockstep to identical approved by the elite beliefs will always end with the people in chains.

What you suffer from sir is a failure to prioritize correctly.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2015 11:24 am
@hawkeye10,
Try flying either of these flags and see what happens.

http://1f0hrf3k9u4d4eiecjguy0r1bn5.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/BLACK-PANTHER.jpg

http://arabicquick.com/content/uploads/2014/12/ISIS_black_flag.jpg
 

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