Dating a Vegan... and Stuff...

women often choose partners based on the partners percieved potential. "I will help him to change." they are often dissapointed that the man in their life does not want to change.
men do a similar but opposite thing where they choose a woman because of what she is (many times based on looks) and are often dissapointed when she does change.

I would urge full and frank discussion of her expectations.

I am a flexitarian (I don't eat beef or pork); RP is not. Our compromise is that we eat my way at home. Out, we go to restaurants where he can have other choices. If he wants a burger, he has one, and I don't judge him or make faces or anything. For breakfast and lunch, when he's at work, he eats whatever he pleases. Of course I'd like him to eat healthy fare, but apart from that I don't push anything. If he wants to have an Egg McMuffin for breakfast and then a pastrami sandwich for lunch, my only comment on that is that it's got a lot of salt and fat and I want him to stick around for a long time. But I don't get on his case about it being meat. Oh and if he has leftovers from a restaurant, I'm okay with it if he brings home a doggie bag.

It would be a lot harder to do this if I did not eat fish, eggs, dairy products or chicken (I've only been eating chicken since I think 1991 or so. I dropped beef in 1975. Didn't eat pork because of keeping kosher, then just never started.).

I'm sure veganism is more of an issue, and even more so if she is something of an activist in that area. How does she react around meat-eaters?

I think it really depends.

My own experience is that I have always been omnivorous but E.G. had been a vegetarian for several years (like 10) when I met him. I was cool with that. I respected it. I didn't try to convince him of anything, and vice versa.

I was very careful about establishing what was and wasn't OK with him in terms of eating in front of him. He said oh go ahead, I'm used to it, I've been the only vegetarian among omnivores for much of my life.

OK.

About a month later, he decided that the brat I was eating smelled really, really good and he had a bite.

There went 10 years of vegetarianism (sorry, honey). I felt bad about it, he shrugged. (He's been a non-vegetarian ever since.)

We aren't very meat-centric, food-wise, and still have vegetarian meals fairly often, but he's definitely not a vegetarian.


A good friend of mine is vegetarian, her husband is not, and one of her two sons is. She often prepares several different meals per meal time (two or more) to suit different preferences and is fine with that. She's thinking of becoming vegan and is a little worried about how much harder mealtimes will be because of that.

This is reminiscent of all those "dating a widow" threads.

My (very inexpert) advice is to see what develops between you & your friend ... & worry about the details of food matters later.

Reasonable people who care about each other can generally find mutually acceptable meeting grounds, if they really want to a relationship to work. That's been my experience, anyway.

I think dadpads right on with this one.

Of course, the person in my life who is a vegan is doing that because she is anorexic and sees extreme diets as socially acceptable ways of NOT eating.

She is 5 11 and maybe 125lbs. I kid you not


anyway

It IS something that will build up in a relationship so nip it in the bud as best you can. Find out why she chose that route. It could be just as simple as she doesnt like the taste.
If it is because of animal cruelty that she chooses to not eat meat... Im sorry but that will be an issue. Any time she sees you eat meat she will associate your behavior with continuing the act she cant handle. Be prepared for that. I have known WAY too many vegans, and now choose to stay AWAY from them because of it Though there are ways around that issue. Talking will help.


Recipes for her?
Oh thats simple.

Take a yellow and green squash, slice them like chips. Put them in a medium heat sauce pan with about 1 tablespoon of olive oil. Just enough so they dont stick essentially. Sprinkle just a little bit of seasoned salt over them and slow cook them until they are mushy. The yellow squash gets sweet while the green stays sort of.. veggie tasting. The combination is wonderful.

Steam a head of fresh broccoli. Use a good vegan dressing for dipping.

Find a rice pudding recipe online. Make with raisins, cinnamon and sugar. Dessert.
Have an easy to make mushroom soup and find a place that makes fried tofu or, find a really GOOD bean soup.
Find a good phycially heavy bread to eat with it. It will be filled with raisins and nuts.
If she is a die hard vegan, make sure the ingredients on that bread do NOT say natural flavors.

You can have that lunch or dinner made in under 2 hours.
And if you are good in the kitchen, you can have it all done as she walks in and serve her the soup + toast as you put the veggies on a plate.

Red wine is vegan.
White is not.

As in Shewolf's experience, I've also noticed many vegans are people with eating disorders and this gives them an excuse to control their food in a socially acceptable way. It's not 100%, but I see it a lot as someone who has taught cooking classes and is very involved in advocating for the health and sustainability of our food supply. My own little prejudice is they are elitists. When else in the history of humankind could we afford to be so picky, picky, picky about we chose to eat? In the past you either ate whatever was deemed edible or you died. Anyway... I have eaten some very tasty vegan dishes. You have to be careful not to use things like honey (you might bother the bees) or and I even know a vegan who will not eat Amish products (they are at our farmer's market) because they use animal labor to grow crops. The philosophy can be rather extreme. Don't tell her all grain products contain the eggs of moths. I suggest you look at ethnic cooking styles from India and Japan. These cultures have a large selection of dishes that do not have dairy or meat in them. When in doubt, you can always whip up some rice pasta with veggies in a sauce of your choosing. Serve with a miso-tofu or spicy coconut curry soup.

Honestly, Diest, you have two options. 1. Wait her out, most vegans give up after a year or two (not including the food disorder ones) or 2. Adopt her diet when you are with her and eat hamburger when you're not.

Good luck.

Do you have chicken recipes that you like? I'd replace the chicken with Seitan (cooked wheat gluten), and leave the rest of the recipe pretty much like it is. The other substitutes you may need should be easier -- frying with oil instead of butter, substituting milk with soy-milk hemp-milk, that kind of thing. Of course, you want to experiment with these new ingredients a bit before Valentine's Day.

More generally, PETA runs a website to help people get started with cooking vegetarians. Maybe you can visit it and mine it for some ideas.


Well, a cornerstone of any long-term relationship is communication, and a mutual willingness to resolve conflicts between your interests. Since you're serious about her, this topic looks like a good one to start. When the time is right, why don't you bring it up, ask her how she feels about this, and see if you can find common ground?

Full disclosure: The author of this post is chronically single. Able2know is not responsible for any relationship advice coming from him, should any reader be foolish enough to take it.

Gasp! I did not know that PETA advocated cannibalism.

One more reason to watch my typos.

The vegans I've known (so I'm fully aware of the low n and selection bias, so your mileage may vary) have used their veganism as a control issue. You always have to eat at their restaurant. They require vegan dishes if they come to your home. Etc.

If someone has a medical need for a special diet, such as allergies or heart disease then I'm happy to oblige. If you're just a difficult person, then you can either a) not come, b) not eat, or c) eat what I choose to serve.

My vegan friendships did not last, as I became unable to deal with their bullshit. You can't just go to dinner; it has to be a great debate. You can't just have them over to watch a movie; they have to examine the ingredients of every package of food.

Finally, many of them were also very flexible regarding which foods qualified for their diet. Peanut butter was "vegan", for example, even though it's really chock full of animal fat.



"Vegan" generally equates to "narcissist" in my mind, although I acknowledge that this may not be a universal truth.

Also, the show Top Chef recently had a show that focused on vegan dishes.

http://www.slashfood.com/2009/08/06/top-chef-masters-zooey-deschanel-vegan/

http://www.bravotv.com/search?query=vegan

I agree with DrewDad in one respect: there's a pretty good chance that Diest's special lady will prove "difficult" about what to eat. I disagree, however, when he explains her possible attitude as a control issue. Like most Vegans, she may well have given up animal products because of a well-considered ethical judgment: The non-human animals we eat do not differ much from us humans in ethically relevant ways. Therefore, eating animal flesh comes uncomfortably close to cannibalism, which DrewDad and Diest both disapprove of.

I don't want to argue the merits of this position here -- for that, we already have Robert's Food Ethics thread. But I do think Diest's situation merits an exercise in empathy. Pretend the shoe is on the other foot. Suppose Diest is dating a really sweet cannibal girl. Now he is the partner with the ethically restricted diet. How important would it be for him that they eat out in his kind of restaurants, the ones that don't serve human flesh? How "difficult" would he be prepared to get about the issue? And, if he was willing to be difficult, what would he think of his girl friend's internet buddy who judged him as "having control issues"?

Again, I don't mean to evangelize for veganism, not being one myself. I don't even know Diest's lady has become vegan for ethical reasons. I just wanted to give Diest a sense of the sentiments he may be up against.

Take her to a restaurant in West Palm Beach called Yoko Japanese. The operating room- sterile prep area and the impeccably prepared Tuna Sashimi will be too much temptation to resist. Next thing you know she’ll be swiping the pork filled Gyoza off your plate and oohing and ahhing. Worked on my Vegetarian sister, and then the balance of her vegetarian family of 6 (the kids having been vegetarians from birth.)

Edit: Scratch that. The best Restaurant on planet earth has closed its doors. Hope Yoko and Hiro are living happily ever after.

Wow, so between us we're responsible for converting five ____ co-op vegetarians!! (I converted one more too... didn't mean to, I think it was another brat. Wisconsin brats = damn good.)

this thread is a fantastic example.

Im hoping she is a peaceful vegan


But what ever you choose Diest..

cooking vegan IS NOT COMPLICATED.

simple veggies lightly cooked, steamed, or eaten raw is a wonderful dish.
throw steamed veggies on top of rice with a good vegan sauce. You will look like the chef from another country.
If a vegan requires a lot of 'pre package' foods.. and does not eat a lot of fresh foods, they are ..... well......... dumb fucks.

I dont think Mr Tko attracts dumb fucks

that sorta depends on the particular vegan and their particular guidelines

TKO - what has she been cooking for you? perhaps use that as a guideline

http://www.veganideal.org/content/political-correctness-political-expediency-and-veganism

hehehehe

Kucinich, the vegans' politician of choice

http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=11877.0


(googling vegan politics is always interesting)


I was a vegetarian for quite a number of years, and lived with vegans a few times. I definitely recommend encouraging them to take care of their own meals as much as possible.

http://www.vegparadise.com/cookingwith62.html

A VALENTINE'S DAY VEGAN DINNER
Includes Recipes

Valentine Dinner Menu

Appetizer
Toast with glass of your favorite wine or sparkling non-alcoholic beverage
Eggplant Cornucopias

Salad
Sweetheart Salad with Baby Greens
Avocado Caesar Dressing

Entree
Passionate Pineapple Tempeh
Cupid's Favorite Quinoa
Steamed Asparagus Spears
Roasted Beet Hearts

Dessert
Love Tart with Raspberry Almond Sauce
Peach Brandy in a long stemmed liqueur glass

~~~

you can definitely do this

Funny you should say that about the Brats. I started with Sis on a getaway-from-it-all visit, then the rest of the family a couple months later when they stopped in on me during their annual vacation... they all came in disbelief about sis, but left believers. When they returned home, they decided "Free-Range" Chickens would be added to their diet (in fairness, they had recently read that for some proteins, you really do need meat). First Chicken night was quiet, and the kids picked at it, but bro-in-law’s and Turbo’s appetites just weren't there for it. But then Sis woke up in the middle of the night to find Bro-in-law up to his elbows in the chicken! Two weeks later, he was chomping Brats at a party like it was the most natural thing in the world! Turbo took the longest, having been the longest running total meat-virgin from birth. Today, however, “Johnny’s Famous” is every kid’s favorite… it’s a baked pasta/hamburger/cheese deal (think Hamburger Helper)… that they pretty much only get when sis ain’t around to make sure they eat healthier.