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Attempt To Blow Up US Passenger Jet

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 11:03 am
@farmerman,
No ipod, no laptop, no kindle - the TSA is really working fast to get rid of all the chemical stuff passengers could carry ...
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 11:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Apparently even no books (no personal possessions on lap). Ai yi yi.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 12:21 pm
@ossobuco,
Apparently even no books (no personal possessions on lap). Ai yi yi.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This degree of silliness will not last long. Even the TV talking heads are declaring how silly such a reaction happen to be.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 12:24 pm
@ossobuco,
I love the no using the rest rooms for an hour before landing as I do remember one flight were I needed to live in the airliner restrooms and if I had been ban from doing so everyones in the plane would had been very unhappy indeed.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 01:04 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
This degree of silliness will not last long. Even the TV talking heads are declaring how silly such a reaction happen to be

STOP. THE. INSANITY!
High Seas
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 02:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
There's worse coming down the pike - now the anthropogenic-global-warmists want to tax flights over the entire distance of the route. Fortunately some good person at NOAA is holding out:
http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091221/full/news.2009.1157.html
Quote:
David Fahey, of the Earth System Research Laboratory in Boulder, Colorado " part of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration " [....] Fahey says that now European leaders are calling for carbon taxes to be levied on each commercial airline flight, the United States is being driven to catch up on aircraft-emissions research. Some of the EU proposals suggest taxing a flight for emissions along its entire route. This is "absurd", says Fahey.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 02:58 pm
Quote:
DETROIT " The pilots of Northwest Airlines Flight 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit " the same flight involved in Friday’s terrorism attempt " requested emergency assistance Sunday upon landing in Detroit, an airport spokesman said.


The crew had requested police assistance on the ground because a passenger was “verbally disruptive,” according to a statement from Delta Airlines, which acquired Northwest last year.

The Transportation Safety Administration said in a statement that it had been alerted to a “disruptive passenger on board” Flight 253. The T.S.A. said that the flight landed safely at Detroit International Airport at approximately 12:35 p.m. Eastern “without incident.”

“ The aircraft has been moved to a remote location for additional screening,” the agency said. “T.S.A. and law enforcement met the aircraft upon arrival, the passenger is now in custody.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/28/us/politics/w28talk.html?hp

Me thinks someone was none too happy about not being allowed to take a leak.

EDIT : maybe not
Quote:
was detained after becoming disruptive and locking himself for a lengthy period in a bathroom, according to a flight crew report radioed to the federal Transportation Safety Administration

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/27/AR2009122701080.html?hpid=topnews
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 03:00 pm
@High Seas,
Is there not an never ending thread on that subject?

Why bring it to this thread?
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Dec, 2009 11:46 am
so there's a list of things you shouldn't carry on a plane, is a passport one of them?

Flight 253 passenger: Sharp-dressed man aided terror suspect Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab onto plane without passport
By Sheena Harrison | MLive.com
December 26, 2009, 2:22PM



A Michigan man who was aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 253 says he witnessed Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab trying to board the plane in Amsterdam without a passport.

Kurt Haskell of Newport, Mich., who posted an earlier comment about his experience, talked exclusively with MLive.com and confirmed he was on the flight by sending a picture of his boarding pass. He and his wife, Lori, were returning from a safari in Uganda when they boarded the NWA flight on Friday.

Haskell said he and his wife were sitting on the ground near their boarding gate in Amsterdam, which is when they saw Mutallab approach the gate with an unidentified man.

Kurt and Lori Haskell are attorneys with Haskell Law Firm in Taylor. Their expertise includes bankruptcy, family law and estate planning.

While Mutallab was poorly dressed, his friend was dressed in an expensive suit, Haskell said. He says the suited man asked ticket agents whether Mutallab could board without a passport. “The guy said, 'He's from Sudan and we do this all the time.'”

Mutallab is Nigerian. Haskell believes the man may have been trying to garner sympathy for Mutallab's lack of documents by portraying him as a Sudanese refugee.

The ticket agent referred Mutallab and his companion to her manager down the hall, and Haskell didn't see Mutallab again until after he allegedly tried to detonate an explosive on the plane.

Haskell said the flight was mostly unremarkable. That was until he heard a flight attendant say she smelled smoke, just after the pilot announced the plane would land in Detroit in 10 minutes. Haskell got out of his seat to view the brewing commotion.

Haskell, who described Mutallab as a diminutive man who looks like a teenager, said about 30 seconds passed between the first mention of smoke and when Mutallab was subdued by fellow passengers.

“He didn't fight back at all. This wasn't a big skirmish,” Haskell said. “A couple guys jumped on him and hauled him away.”

The ordeal has Haskell and his wife a little shaken. Flight attendants were screaming during the fire and the pilot sounded notably nervous when bringing the plane in for a landing, he said.

“Immediately, the pilot came on and said two words: emergency landing,” Haskell said. “And that was it. The plane sped up instead of slowing down. You could tell he floored it.”

As Mutallab was being led out of the plane in handcuffs, Haskell said he realized that was the same man he saw trying to board the plane in Amsterdam.

Passengers had to wait about 20 minutes before they were allowed to exit the plane. Haskell said he and other passengers waited about six hours to be interviewed by the FBI.

About an hour after landing, Haskell said he saw another man being taken into custody. But a spokeswoman from the FBI in Detroit said Mutallab was the only person taken into custody.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 02:41 pm
On the issue of profiling, why don't we just make it simple and ban all males from flying on airplanes? After all, not all males are terrorists but all terrorists have been male thus far.

It won't require any guessing or interviews to determine a person's race, religion, country of origin, etc. It would not require "no fly" lists and it would be much less expensive than all these technical sniffing and snooping gadgets too.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 02:58 pm
@Butrflynet,
Then you get to strip searches to ensure that no men get on board and then genetic testing and ... well soon you'd be disqualifying hermaphrodites and taking away their previous flights. Just think about the fatalities on the roads when you get all those men driving around without any directions. I'd rather just live with terrorists.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 02:59 pm
@engineer,
Besides, plenty of suicide terrorist people are female - though I gather they are males more often.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 03:22 pm
@Butrflynet,
Sorry but as had been pointed out a number of women had been suicide bombers.

From Wikipedia

Some argue that the increasing prevalence of female suicide bombers in the Intifada is a sign of the rising status of women in Arab culture. Others argue that suicide bombers are low-level pawns and thus the use of women cannot be a sign of rising status. Still others point out that women are simply joining the men in fighting, a choice that is seen as being open to them in Islamic teaching.

Some militant organizations have used women to carry out suicide bombings because they draw less suspicion than men and go through less rigorous security checks. For example: while a man can be checked to see if he's carrying an explosive belt by simply lifting his shirt, ordering a woman is much less acceptable, particularly in the Islamic world. Israeli security procedures practice is that a suspected woman is to be checked by a female soldier in a screened off area.

On the same day Darine Abu Aisha committed a suicide bombing, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the religious leader of Islamist militant group Hamas, issued a fatwa, or religious rule, that gave permission to women to participate in suicide attacks as well as listing the rewards in "Paradise" that these female martyrs would receive upon their deaths. He also promised Hamas will send many female suicide bombers in order to strike Israelis.

Reactions to this in the Islamic world were mixed. While many hailed the female suicide bomber and urged full involvement of all in Jihad, some criticized the cruelty of tearing mothers from their children and sending them to explode themselves.

See also: Hanadi Jaradat, Andalib Suleiman, Ayat al-Akhras, and Wafa Idris
[edit] Tactical gain
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 03:40 pm
@BillRM,
A number of them have not been Muslim but that hasn't stopped anyone from wanting to single out Muslims. Why the double standard just because one or two of them have not been male?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 04:02 pm
@BillRM,
The point (and it is a good one) is that everyone is all for profiling until you are in the profile group. If one tenth of one percent of Muslims pose a threat (and it is far lower than that), why are we willing to treat the huge number of innocents as criminals because of it? Punish 999 to get one? How about 9,999? Plus, it creates a tremendous weakness in our security. How do you know who is Muslim? You just stop people with dark skin. Lots of Christians, Atheists, etc in Africa and the Middle East, but you have to stop them all. OK, now a white guy like the shoe bomber walks right past your checkpoint. It's not hard to analyze who you are looking for and send someone different, playing on your stereotypes to find holes in your defenses.

On a related topic, here is an interesting blog entry on what the airplane bombing means if it is truly an organized terrorist attack. The overall premise is that if Al Qaeda is resorting to such a poorly planned attack, then they must really be hurting since their previous efforts have been much better coordinated and had redundant attacks planned together to ensure some success.
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 04:06 pm
@engineer,
It is good to see that someone else is looking deeper than the surface drama and scare tactics.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 04:25 pm
@engineer,
Let see we should waste resources on everyone when it is mainly young Muslim males who are the threat?

I am all for being PC correct however I see little point in checking a 72 year old grandmother as carefully as a 22 year old Muslim male.

We already had seen that no one wish to be call out as a bigot and therefore risk his army career when dealing with the good Major and as a result 12 soldiers die and 31 was wounded.

There had to be some common sense apply here.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 04:38 pm
@BillRM,
How do you know who the young Muslims are? The latest guy was from Nigeria, not the Middle East. Do you stop Christians from the Middle East? Do they wear a cross so that you know who they are? Why not stop women when you already said they are used as bombers? Of the six previous airline events, four involved men from the Middle East (9-11), one was a Caucasian man (shoe bomber) and one was African (latest event). Won't focusing on "Muslim men" cause you to miss a third of bombers and based on history? Al Qaeda is no longer using men from the Middle East, at least they haven't in eight years. If you devote all of your resources to stopping yesterday's threat, are you really safer?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 04:58 pm
@engineer,
I think that as must as possible you direct your resources to the most likely threat model and not waste resources on those who are unlikely to be threats just to be PC.

All males are a greater risk the females, all young men are a greater threat then older men, all known Muslims are a greater threat then non-Muslims.

All people who pay for a one way ticket is a higher risk then those who pay for a two way ticket with a credit card and those who board a flight with no luggage and on and on we go.

No I do not stating the we should not run screening on everyone but when added screening seem call for by commonsense it should be done.

Not give the good major a pass because he is a Muslim!!!!!!!!!!!

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 05:21 pm
@engineer,
Another example that comes to mind is the third world sex tourists trade dealing with young girls that the government is trying to control.

Now for the most part it is older white males who are involved in such behaviors and if I was on a plane returning to the country from a location known for such a trade and without my wife along I would assume they would look at me far more carefully then a young Muslim male for example.

There is no reason to shut off commonsense to be PC correct as it had and will cause unneeded lost of lives to do so.
0 Replies
 
 

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